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Crime & Punishment

 
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new way of scamming with kill rights
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Decius Severus
Ordo Equites Regii Sagittarii
#1 - 2013-05-01 22:34:13 UTC  |  Edited by: Decius Severus
Hi,

I just lost 500m to a scam with the new crime watch system.

What happened:

I saw a guy (Viconia Darth) with a kill right in amarr and of course wanted the kill. Quickly opened the dialog and activated the kill right. My prey suddenly exploded (not by me) and my wallet lost 500m. So it seems I overread a couple of zeros in that little kill right activation dialog. Great! The guy who sold the kill right was of course he himself with another char: XAJIRBA Darth.

The point is:
PvP happens always in a fast pace, so people will not look on that little dialog and count all zeros to be sure. If there is no limitation to kill right prices (Id still be mad for 50m but not as much as for 500m of course) then this is an invitation for scammers - a new and very lucrative opportunity.

I want to just play this game and not check on every single thing I do if I am screwed with some game mechanic I am not fully aware of.
Tah'ris Khlador
Space Ghosts.
Break-A-Wish Foundation
#2 - 2013-05-01 22:39:03 UTC  |  Edited by: Tah'ris Khlador
You realize people figured out this scam the day the updated crimewatch was released, right?

Also, thank you for informing us that you're an easy mark. I shall proceed to send lots of duel requests your way, in the hopes that you misread "cancel" from "accept."

Decius Severus wrote:
I want to just play this game and not check on every single thing I do if I am screwed with some game mechanic I am not fully aware of.


Read as "I don't want to learn game mechanics and CCP needs to cater to my lack of reading skills."

Member of the Pink Pony Killboard Padding Alliance
Gizznitt Malikite
Agony Unleashed
Agony Empire
#3 - 2013-05-01 22:48:42 UTC

This is old news....

During the Caldari Prime event in Luminaire, someone insured 2 or 3 freighters on an alt that he had previously gathered killrights on... flew them into the busy system, and made the killrights public for something like 2-3b isk... people bought the killrights to kill the freighters, and that guy made some nice profit.

Other ways, fit up a stabbed/cloaky BS in system, next to a gate. Get an alt, put a 30m isk public killright on the BS.Spice up the killright with a bounty 30m isk bounty. Watch people activate killrights on it and then simply warp it off to safety & cloak up. Rinse & repeat.

Debra Scully
Imperial Phoenix Legion
#4 - 2013-05-01 22:51:53 UTC
The scam would have been better if he had warped away or blown you up instead of blowing himself up. AFAIK the kill right is not used if the person isn't actually killed. I put kill rights I had on someone to publicly available for a cheap price. Someone bought the kill right but apparently failed because about 6 hours later, someone else bought the killright and succeeded, because that time I got a mail saying my kill right was used.

I saw a guy with a kill right for 1 billion (lol) hanging out by a station in a fairly killable ship, and even as a fairly noobish player, realized this was some sort of scam. If you're too lazy to count the number of zeroes in the price of something, this might not be the game for you.
Decius Severus
Ordo Equites Regii Sagittarii
#5 - 2013-05-01 23:13:22 UTC
Thanks for your replies guys - and for telling me why I am such a bad player and why I should play something else.

Actually in about 7 years this is my very first scam - so NO I am not too lazy to read zeros and NO, I am not an easy prey for scammers. Your right though, I am not spending hours reading about how weird game mechanics can be and how they can be misused - I am not fully informed after a new release on every single change - that surely might make me not the ideal player. Instead I buy ships and go pew with them to either die or kill stuff - thats the spirit of the game imho.

Until now scams were limited to contracts, where you can take all the time you want to read it and decide if you want to pay 500m for a t1 ship e.g. Now in PvP if you are not fast, you don't get the kill or die. So overlooking some zeros while you look at a tiny window for a second is a lot easier.

I am still saying it would be better to either:

1. limit the price for kill rights to prevent misuse
2. or as done in contracts, write the price in words instead if many zeros, like 500 milion isk
3. or best would be if I could set a limit on the kill right price for myself.
Tah'ris Khlador
Space Ghosts.
Break-A-Wish Foundation
#6 - 2013-05-01 23:22:05 UTC
You will get no sympathy in this sub-forum. And scams have existed beyond contracts forever.

Also, your "suggestions" are moot. Reading solves the issue.

Member of the Pink Pony Killboard Padding Alliance
Decius Severus
Ordo Equites Regii Sagittarii
#7 - 2013-05-01 23:34:56 UTC
Wasn't trying to get sympathy. But maybe CCP should decide if a change is required and not you.

I am in general not favoring scams, grief playing and any other weird way of playing this game and any game mechanic that favors this but I also understand that this is only my personal opinion and you might have yours - thats cool.

So bottom line is, I said what I wanted - topic is done.
Gizznitt Malikite
Agony Unleashed
Agony Empire
#8 - 2013-05-02 01:22:30 UTC
Decius Severus wrote:
Wasn't trying to get sympathy. But maybe CCP should decide if a change is required and not you.

I am in general not favoring scams, grief playing and any other weird way of playing this game and any game mechanic that favors this but I also understand that this is only my personal opinion and you might have yours - thats cool.

So bottom line is, I said what I wanted - topic is done.


FYI: This isn't a scam... at least, not by my definition.

A scam implies some deceit. I don't see any deceit here...

You see a character with a kill right. You decide to purchase that killright for a chance to kill them.

  • If they "get safe" after you purchased the killrights, so be it. You paid for a chance, and you had that chance.
  • If you have buyers remorse for purchasing a killright for 1b isk, so be it.
    • [*] If you misread how much a killright is, well that has nothing to do with the guy selling the killright, and everything to do with your attention to details. Perhaps if they were somehow advertising their killright as 1m when it was really 1b this could be a scam, but I have yet to figure out how to do that!
    Dub Step
    Death To Everyone But Us
    #9 - 2013-05-02 05:46:16 UTC
    Scamming like this is probably a bannable offence. CCP will sort you out.
    Froggy Storm
    KarmaFleet
    Goonswarm Federation
    #10 - 2013-05-02 06:23:00 UTC
    (Tongue firmly in cheek)
    What we need here is some kind of click to accept the kill right. Some kind of "are you sure" pop up. Maybe even get Aura to read out loud what ever is being accepted.

    If you were taking what you thought was a shot at an easy kill and got burned by it where is the problem? It is an easy mistake to make I suppose, but in no way should ANYONE be held to account for the failure of another.

    That's akin to saying a frig shouldn't be able to use transverse to kill my pirate BS cuz I didn't know how the mechanic works. Ignorance can not be nor should be an excuse.

    That said you got baited. Really no different than a hot drop. This time it cost you 500m instead of your ship. Same principals apply.
    Esha Ditrix
    #11 - 2013-05-02 07:04:50 UTC
    Decius Severus wrote:
    I want to just play this game and not check on every single thing I do if I am screwed with some game mechanic I am not fully aware of.

    reading makes eve better, you should try it...

    Its not an exploit, if the game lets you do it...
    Decius Severus
    Ordo Equites Regii Sagittarii
    #12 - 2013-05-02 07:51:03 UTC
    Ok guys, point taken, sorry for posting it.

    Apparently it is no scam, no exploit, it is exactly what CCP intended by introducing crime watch: ppl getting rich by having their own chars killed. Fine.

    So if we are not trying to avoid misleading incidents, we should consider the following:

    - Removing the warning message for exorbitant prices from the market
    - Removing the written-out price from contracts (e.g. 500 milion is; instead only show 500000000 as earlier); as a matter of fact we should go back to the old escrow system from 5 years ago
    - Removing the traffic light system from crime watch
    - etc.

    All what these mechanics prevent, can also be prevented simply by reading - somehow CCP did not get this point and keeps spending our money for implementing all these needless countermeasures.
    Dilligafmofo
    3WAYFOUNDATIONS
    New Miner's Union
    #13 - 2013-05-02 08:35:02 UTC
    In your 7 years this was your first scam?

    Nope....

    No scam was made in this incident, it was an error on your part. YOU failed to read the killright, YOU accepted the price when you clicked in a hurry, It was YOUR greed for a KM or bounty payment that cost you 500m, not some scam.

    A scam is a completely different thing altogehter, this is a clever ruse but wholly depends on your greed, haste and stupidity.


    TD:LR Not a scam but a stupid :P
    JackknifedII
    The Congregation
    RAPID HEAVY ROPERS
    #14 - 2013-05-02 08:39:51 UTC
    Decius Severus wrote:
    Ok guys, point taken, sorry for posting it.

    Apparently it is no scam, no exploit, it is exactly what CCP intended by introducing crime watch: ppl getting rich by having their own chars killed. Fine.

    So if we are not trying to avoid misleading incidents, we should consider the following:

    - Removing the warning message for exorbitant prices from the market
    - Removing the written-out price from contracts (e.g. 500 milion is; instead only show 500000000 as earlier); as a matter of fact we should go back to the old escrow system from 5 years ago
    - Removing the traffic light system from crime watch
    - etc.

    All what these mechanics prevent, can also be prevented simply by reading - somehow CCP did not get this point and keeps spending our money for implementing all these needless countermeasures.


    I agree with all of your suggestions.

    Minmatar....we are generally unpleasant to be around....

    https://www.youtube.com/channel/UC81MDW6dFa41VdNTt-pTl1Q

    Always recruiting
    TheGunslinger42
    All Web Investigations
    #15 - 2013-05-02 10:11:31 UTC
    "I am illiterate" is not "He scammed me"
    Gizznitt Malikite
    Agony Unleashed
    Agony Empire
    #16 - 2013-05-02 14:31:35 UTC
    Decius Severus wrote:
    Ok guys, point taken, sorry for posting it.

    Apparently it is no scam, no exploit, it is exactly what CCP intended by introducing crime watch: ppl getting rich by having their own chars killed. Fine.

    So if we are not trying to avoid misleading incidents, we should consider the following:

    - Removing the warning message for exorbitant prices from the market
    - Removing the written-out price from contracts (e.g. 500 milion is; instead only show 500000000 as earlier); as a matter of fact we should go back to the old escrow system from 5 years ago
    - Removing the traffic light system from crime watch
    - etc.

    All what these mechanics prevent, can also be prevented simply by reading - somehow CCP did not get this point and keeps spending our money for implementing all these needless countermeasures.


    If you were to post in F&I for the dev's to add a "are you sure, that's an expensive killright" confirmation box to any killright selling for more than 100m isk, I might support it.

    You would need to justify it on the grounds its sometimes difficult to read the true cost of a killright and this leads to people purchasing expensive killrights. Toss in some tidbit about how adrenaline from killright fleeing leading to hasty action.
    Defying
    Sebiestor Tribe
    Minmatar Republic
    #17 - 2013-05-02 16:36:53 UTC
    Dear CZP:


    Please fix this game so that all of us have to hold hands and sing camp fire songs to invoke the gawd of PzeeP, Then after we have summoned our lvl 99 wizards, and cast the PzeeP spell... then and only then should we be able to be PzeePeed. This gives us players plenty of time to decide if we want PzeeP or not.


    Also make the summoning effects for the spell really good so people all over know that PzeePeed is about to go down... it should announce its casting at the start to everyone in eve!
    Ramona McCandless
    Silent Vale
    LinkNet
    #18 - 2013-05-02 16:51:44 UTC
    Dont buy kill rights.


    Just kill.

    "Yea, some dude came in and was normal for first couple months, so I gave him director." - Sean Dunaway

    "A singular character could be hired to penetrate another corps space... using gorilla like tactics..." - Chane Morgann
    Defying
    Sebiestor Tribe
    Minmatar Republic
    #19 - 2013-05-02 17:02:12 UTC
    Ramona McCandless wrote:
    Dont buy kill rights.


    Just kill.


    I like your mindset...

    Ramona McCandless
    Silent Vale
    LinkNet
    #20 - 2013-05-02 17:24:11 UTC
    Decius Severus wrote:
    Wasn't trying to get sympathy........


    lies

    Decius Severus wrote:
    I am in general not favoring scams, grief playing and any other weird way of playing this game


    best get out of See and Pee then

    Decius Severus wrote:
    So bottom line is, I said what I wanted - topic is done.


    CCP get to decide that not you, sugartits.

    "Yea, some dude came in and was normal for first couple months, so I gave him director." - Sean Dunaway

    "A singular character could be hired to penetrate another corps space... using gorilla like tactics..." - Chane Morgann
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