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The new Tags system: Tag4Sec

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Liang Nuren
No Salvation
Divine Damnation
#101 - 2013-05-01 21:03:40 UTC
Herzog Wolfhammer wrote:
Olf Barrenbur wrote:
I heard something about gates locking people out during that panel. Can someone please clarify? thx




Oh the tears....


This was shot down fairly quickly.

-Liang

I'm an idiot, don't mind me.
Liang Nuren
No Salvation
Divine Damnation
#102 - 2013-05-01 21:05:34 UTC
Singulis Pacifica wrote:
I'm against this for a simple reason that this brings another variable into the game that has very little to do with the game itself: personal wealth.


Here's a direct quote from the panel on that subject: "So... rich people (in game) get away with crimes. This is different from real life how?"

-Liang

I'm an idiot, don't mind me.
SlaughterhouseDb
3MR Incorporated
#103 - 2013-05-01 21:10:34 UTC
Is there any mention of Empires getting the same treatment? I could sure use a Gallentean amnesty or something; that would be worth a couple of hundred million to me.
Liang Nuren
No Salvation
Divine Damnation
#104 - 2013-05-01 21:24:40 UTC
So here's my take on this: it's a mechanism that allows a certain number of people to instantly raise their sec status. The more people who want to do this, the more expensive those tags are going to be. The fewer who care about such things (eg, actual pirates) the less expensive they are going to be. Either way, people who live in low sec are going to be the ones that obtain these tags.

I'd say that most of the tags are going to be farmed in Aridia/Solitude/Genesis and the biggest buyers are going to be professional freighter gankers. If the changes mentioned at the panel (needing only to be above -5.0 to get into any sec status) go through, some tags will be *infinitely* more expensive than others - eg, the -5.0 to -4.5 tags

I would also like to address the ridiculous "P2W" people earlier. This is not P2W because the conversion comes from in game currency instead of directly from PLEX or from your "my account" page. It is eminently reasonable (and honestly quite probable) for someone to suicide gank all day and buy their sec status back up with the proceeds from suicide ganking.

In other news: "I'm the pirate, you can't kill me!"

-Liang

I'm an idiot, don't mind me.
Captain Tardbar
Deep Core Mining Inc.
Caldari State
#105 - 2013-05-01 22:41:04 UTC
Tippia wrote:
No amount of money will help you get your sec status back up unless someone has done that grind. Nothing is suddenly being generated out of nowhere.


Well plex is technically generated out of no where in game using with real dollars.

But I've always said Plex is pay to win (somewhat). Just no one believes me.

If you just want to throw money at the problem your characters don't have to grind. Someone else does though, but it doesn't matter to you because... Well... You just threw money at the problem.

People say you can't use plex to abuse the game mechanics, upset the economy, or become overly powerful.

I say, you haven't seen a lottery winner go nutz. (Though if you had tens of thousands of dollars to throw away you could just buy a seat on the CSM by bribing the right people).

Though, I personally don't mind the plex mechanic. It works and its rare that people abuse it because throwing hundreds of dollars at internet spaceships is sometimes foolish.

Looking to talk on VOIP with other EVE players? Are you new and need help with EVE (welfare) or looking for advice? Looking for adversarial debate with angry people?

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Liang Nuren
No Salvation
Divine Damnation
#106 - 2013-05-01 22:46:23 UTC
Plex is not pay to win. You are bad and you should feel bad.

-Liang

I'm an idiot, don't mind me.
Arronicus
State War Academy
Caldari State
#107 - 2013-05-01 22:50:09 UTC
Rebecha Pucontis wrote:
I dont see why low seccers need special treatement. They should just grind up standing the way everybody else does it. Put more valuable rats in low sec, but don't allow them to buy the tags from market. I guess its too late now though anyway.


There is no special treatment involved. They have the same options to grind up standing the way everyone else does (lowsec dwellers), the tags merely provide a (potentially) more rewarding income source in lowsec. Whether or not this actually works to increase people making money in lowsec, is a whole different affair.
Captain Tardbar
Deep Core Mining Inc.
Caldari State
#108 - 2013-05-01 22:59:34 UTC
Liang Nuren wrote:
Plex is not pay to win. You are bad and you should feel bad.

-Liang



Why? If isk creates power and I can gather as much as I am willing to throw money at, isn't that paying for power?

Well, put it this way.... If winning the game means seeing your isk wallet go up by large amounts, then plexing seems to achieve that goal.

But if you don't see isk as a measurement but instead of kills or something that like... I put for this scenario....

Someone who bribes a merc corp with 1 plex a month for fleeting with them and getting on kill mails.

Sounds silly though as most pople aren't that liberal with their money. I'm just saying if a EVE neckbeard won the lotto he could theoretical use isk and plex to worm his way into places of "win" or whatever floats your boat... Isk... Kills... Position in an alliance.... I'm sure if someone slipped alliance managment 500 plex's every 6 months, they'd give this guy a nice place in the chain of command.

So far no one in EVE has won the lottery and won a place on the CSM through bribery. I'm just saying plex could lead to this. (Of course it might just be easier to give the leadership money under the table without bothering with plex).

Nothing wrong with it though I am saying. I'm just saying if you have obscene amounts of money you could pay to win whatever your goal posts are set to.

Looking to talk on VOIP with other EVE players? Are you new and need help with EVE (welfare) or looking for advice? Looking for adversarial debate with angry people?

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Montevius Williams
The Scope
Gallente Federation
#109 - 2013-05-01 23:13:15 UTC
Dave Stark wrote:
baltec1 wrote:
Did...did gankers get a buff?

There must be a catch somewhere.


it's not a buff, it's just removing the tedium of grinding sec status.

no buff to see here, move along please.


Wrong, they've made it easier and/or took away the need to grind for sec status, thus it's a buff

"The American Government indoctrination system known as public education has been relentlessly churning out socialists for over 20 years". - TravisWB
Haulie Berry
#110 - 2013-05-01 23:26:09 UTC  |  Edited by: Haulie Berry
Captain Tardbar wrote:
Liang Nuren wrote:
Plex is not pay to win. You are bad and you should feel bad.

-Liang



Why? If isk creates power and I can gather as much as I am willing to throw money at, isn't that paying for power?


Except you can't gather as much as you're willing to throw money at, because someone else still has to go actually generate the isk in-game, not to mention the fact that as you did so, plex would gradually become worth less isk as you flooded the market.
Captain Tardbar
Deep Core Mining Inc.
Caldari State
#111 - 2013-05-01 23:35:21 UTC  |  Edited by: Captain Tardbar
Haulie Berry wrote:
Except you can't gather as much as you're willing to throw money at, because someone else still has to go actually generate the isk in-game.


Of course. Factory owners get the proles to slave away for them. Isn't this power? I create an object of value that you want.... I hold power over you and make you slave away at the missions and mines to get it.

Notice I mention that people would use plex to pay for instead of isk. In my example I specifically said someone give mercs plex.... Not isk. I can create as much 30 day free time as I want to as I want to spend money on. Instead of trading it in for isk, I can trade it in for player interaction.

Again, it would be if I had enough plex to give 1 a month to a leader of a merc corporation so I could tag along and get free kills.

Sure the merc leader could turn him down for the sake of honor, but that power of that plex is sure a persuasive tool to get me to let him join the fleets as long as he could play a month for free every month.

Surely if I offered you a plex per month to perform X task, you would seriously consider doing it. That is called power.

Looking to talk on VOIP with other EVE players? Are you new and need help with EVE (welfare) or looking for advice? Looking for adversarial debate with angry people?

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Steijn
Quay Industries
#112 - 2013-05-01 23:42:09 UTC
Everything in this thread is hypothetical until drop rates are known. They could be as rare as faction drops in high sec missions, or as common as metal scraps. Until its known, you cant really give a valid opinion on how it will affect the game.
RubyPorto
RubysRhymes
#113 - 2013-05-01 23:44:04 UTC  |  Edited by: RubyPorto
March rabbit wrote:
Tippia wrote:

March rabbit wrote:
Which penalty you want to suffer for attacking in high-sec:
1) being CONCORDOKKEN
2) being paid XXX ISK

?

I think this is perfectly inside your theory about penalties and suffering. And many people would love to have it. Guess which option it would be every time? Lol
Seeing as how the two options are the same, this already exists in the game. Blink

looks like you have some bad time here Lol
Ok.
1. Being CONCORDOKKEN - your ship is killed by CONCORD and target couldn't survive
2. pay XXX ISK - your ship is not killed by CONCORD and you killed your victim

i hope now you see the small difference here? Lol



So, a Wardec.

Also, to the ganker, what is a ship but a pile of ISK being spent to kill things? Are you saying it's broken to be able to pay other people to mine the minerals and manufacture them into a ship rather than being forced to do those things yourself?

"It's easy to speak for the silent majority. They rarely object to what you put into their mouths." -Abrazzar "the risk of having your day ruined by other people is the cornerstone with which EVE was built" -CCP Solomon
Liang Nuren
No Salvation
Divine Damnation
#114 - 2013-05-02 01:05:29 UTC
Captain Tardbar wrote:

Why? If isk creates power and I can gather as much as I am willing to throw money at, isn't that paying for power?

Well, put it this way.... If winning the game means seeing your isk wallet go up by large amounts, then plexing seems to achieve that goal.

But if you don't see isk as a measurement but instead of kills or something that like... I put for this scenario....

Someone who bribes a merc corp with 1 plex a month for fleeting with them and getting on kill mails.

Sounds silly though as most pople aren't that liberal with their money. I'm just saying if a EVE neckbeard won the lotto he could theoretical use isk and plex to worm his way into places of "win" or whatever floats your boat... Isk... Kills... Position in an alliance.... I'm sure if someone slipped alliance managment 500 plex's every 6 months, they'd give this guy a nice place in the chain of command.

So far no one in EVE has won the lottery and won a place on the CSM through bribery. I'm just saying plex could lead to this. (Of course it might just be easier to give the leadership money under the table without bothering with plex).

Nothing wrong with it though I am saying. I'm just saying if you have obscene amounts of money you could pay to win whatever your goal posts are set to.


A few comments:
- Someone still has to go out and grind the ISK
- Flooding the market with infinite PLEX doesn't mean that there are infinite buyers
- Someone "paying" for all that is no more powerful than someone who is exceptionally good at manipulating the market or runs a powerful alliance or whatever.

You are bad and you should feel bad. /shrug

-Liang

I'm an idiot, don't mind me.
Liang Nuren
No Salvation
Divine Damnation
#115 - 2013-05-02 01:07:08 UTC
Captain Tardbar wrote:
Haulie Berry wrote:
Except you can't gather as much as you're willing to throw money at, because someone else still has to go actually generate the isk in-game.


Of course. Factory owners get the proles to slave away for them. Isn't this power? I create an object of value that you want.... I hold power over you and make you slave away at the missions and mines to get it.

Notice I mention that people would use plex to pay for instead of isk. In my example I specifically said someone give mercs plex.... Not isk. I can create as much 30 day free time as I want to as I want to spend money on. Instead of trading it in for isk, I can trade it in for player interaction.

Again, it would be if I had enough plex to give 1 a month to a leader of a merc corporation so I could tag along and get free kills.

Sure the merc leader could turn him down for the sake of honor, but that power of that plex is sure a persuasive tool to get me to let him join the fleets as long as he could play a month for free every month.

Surely if I offered you a plex per month to perform X task, you would seriously consider doing it. That is called power.


You have this fundamental misconception that there's only one way to get PLEX. There's only one way to spawn PLEX, but there are many ways to get it.

-Liang

I'm an idiot, don't mind me.
Minmatar Citizen160812
The LGBT Last Supper
#116 - 2013-05-02 01:09:22 UTC  |  Edited by: Minmatar Citizen160812
I went to the blood bank today and got an extra $60 for my P2W sec status plexes...anyone interested in a pint of fine red b-neg?

I'm also selling semen if anyone is shooting blanks and can't make the old lady fat. Price depends on how much of a dirty slag she is.
SpoonRECKLESS
Beach Boys
The Minions.
#117 - 2013-05-02 01:28:22 UTC
FINALLY!! My char will be free of null and low sec! I made the mistake of setting off a smartbomb near some pods oh was it just a scene of horror and pod goo. Now I can return to high sec where its fun and I will be safe. So hard to rat and do sites so many reds in local trying to kill you.Big smile

Blue
Captain Tardbar
Deep Core Mining Inc.
Caldari State
#118 - 2013-05-02 01:28:38 UTC
Liang Nuren wrote:

A few comments:
- Someone still has to go out and grind the ISK
- Flooding the market with infinite PLEX doesn't mean that there are infinite buyers
- Someone "paying" for all that is no more powerful than someone who is exceptionally good at manipulating the market or runs a powerful alliance or whatever.

You are bad and you should feel bad. /shrug

-Liang


Not only you are bad, but your are shameful to your high school/grade school education system due to your reading skills.

Did you not read my post? Is reading that hard for you?

I specifically said people could trade non-isk services for plex.

As in I could give people plex in exchange for their services without ever converting it to isk. Thereby not flooding the isk market, but yet still having power over other people by offering a good they desire.

And to the second post... Yes you can pay isk to buy plex, but isn't it damn likley you needed grind a large percentage of your time to buy that plex.

Oh and one thing that comes to mind, plex is only created when someone spends the money to pay CCP. There is no if, ands, or buts about it. If you had 1 trillion isk and no one bought any plex from CCP using real money, you'd still have to pay your $15 because there was no plex to be had.

Oh noes.

Seriously, if I had won the lotto I'd just pay you 1 plex a month to become a forum troll for me and make you agree with me. How about it? Would you like 1 plex to change your mind? If someone came out of the wood work and said "I'll pay you 1 plex per month to troll the forums and promote my view point." I'd bet you'd do it. I'ts a straight face lie if you said you wouldn't take on a simple task to play this game for free without every having to have to grind again.

Looking to talk on VOIP with other EVE players? Are you new and need help with EVE (welfare) or looking for advice? Looking for adversarial debate with angry people?

Captain Tardbar's Voice Discord Server
Minmatar Citizen160812
The LGBT Last Supper
#119 - 2013-05-02 01:50:31 UTC
Captain Tardbar wrote:


"I'll pay you 1 plex per month to troll the forums and promote my view point." I'd bet you'd do it. I'ts a straight face lie if you said you wouldn't take on a simple task to play this game for free without every having to have to grind again.



I don't know about that guy but I'm a cheap date and would love the job for a plex. I'll even give ya one for free:

Capt. Turdbar is always right. Plex is like something that you give to someone to do something for isk and all you other people are just happy you can gank as much as your real pay check can afford. This is not fair!
Nyancat Audeles
Center for Advanced Studies
Gallente Federation
#120 - 2013-05-02 02:05:36 UTC  |  Edited by: Nyancat Audeles
The "pay-to-win" PLEX-Tags-Status argument is irrelevant here. It would be a waste of money. Sure, you could do it, but it doesn't offer you a tangible permanent advantage over anyone else.

A pay-to-win system is a system in which a person pays real money to receive permanent, exclusive benefits over people that paid less or didn't pay at all.

This tag system is not that - you want to buy tags, go ahead and do it. But it won't give you a permanent exclusive advantage over anyone, because anyone can grind a few tags and do the same thing.

EDIT: ITT: People arguing over a bunch of pixelated spaceship prices