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Player morality in EVE online. Why did you leave it at the door?

First post
Author
Ambassadeur Ur-Shulgi
Hedion University
Amarr Empire
#521 - 2011-11-02 15:48:37 UTC
There is an Easy fix to peoples lack of morals in the game. Fix the bounty system. To do this CCP needs to do the following.

1. You have to apply for a bounty hunter licence, a Corp licence, making everyone in your corp a bounty hunter. Everyone in your corp needs to have positive sec status.

2. As soon as you shoot someone in low sec you get Negative standing and automaticly become wanted. Bounty corps can shoot these people anywhere and concord wont get involved they also dont lose sec status if they do so. Also if they shoot back at the bounty hunters in highsec concord responds ( this is a serious thing, locking people who kill others out of highsec) If you get a negative status you are kinda screwed untill you can turn your sec status around.

3. The victim also has the Option to Contract a bounty to a bounty corp.. making it even more lucrative to hunt the offender. when going into the bounty system ingame. Bounty hunter corps show up and can be contacted and contracted through the game placing a lucrative bounty on the offender.

to sum it up

shoot someone you go to -0.1 sec even if you had +5 before the incident. Bounty hunter corps can kill you anywhere and if they attack you in highsec concord will help them out. Players can contract bounties on you through and ingame system to a legit bounty corp or corps that now will make sure the offender dies. The bounty goes to the corp wallet for the CEO to take care of. So bounty corps dont get rotten eggs inside the corp who try to abuse it.

4. Now you ask yourself why the **** would anyone want to become a pirate after this? I say revamp the Null pirate space make it like Empire accept the pirate NPC ( as nasty as concord) shoot people with high sec status) this makes Pirate null a heaven for Reds. They can dock there live there and strick out of there to kill people.

With this system there would be concequences for killing people at random. You would lock yourself out of highsec and run A high risk of getting shoot for it. When people see that the bounty system works, More people will start to spend money on bounties. And PvP lowing people can make Bounty hunter corps and make a name for themselves.

You cant take away the Abuse element completely. But having Bounty hunter corp licences and having the player based bounties go to the CEO of the bounty corp, and having the victim contract the Bounty corp himself. Are 3 things that will make it that much harder to abuse.

Also I would personaly like to have that if you suicide gank someone in highsec your hole corp gets -1 standings and can now be shoot at freely with the help of concord... ( but alot of people would cry murder if this was implemented hahaha) Also this would mean that you could not attack other players if you are in an NPC corp. You dont have the right to shoot back.. this would force more people out of the NPC corps.

EvE as it is today just has to few concequences and the nasty fact is that more people would probably kill People IRL if they could, but laws are what makes a stable society work. Keeps the Nutjobbs inline, and I feel that EvE has come to the point were if " EVE is REAL" we need to start using a much harder policy on bad behavior.....

Mortis vonShadow
Balanaz Mining and Development Inc.
#522 - 2011-11-02 15:59:26 UTC
Ambassadeur Ur-Shulgi wrote:
... we need to start using a much harder policy on bad behavior.....



Define bad behavior. Because to me, killing anyone in hisec isn't bad behavior, its good clean livin'.

Some days you're the bug, and some days your the windscreen.                   And some days, you're just a man with a gun.

Xien Anh
Xezan Federation
#523 - 2011-11-02 16:08:49 UTC
Mortis vonShadow wrote:
Ambassadeur Ur-Shulgi wrote:
... we need to start using a much harder policy on bad behavior.....



Define bad behavior. Because to me, killing anyone in hisec isn't bad behavior, its good clean livin'.


Bad: Anything ~I~ don't like.

Didn't you get the memo? You have to please everyone in an MMO with thousands of players.

Only a ginger can call a ginger a ginger!

Roime
Mea Culpa.
Shadow Cartel
#524 - 2011-11-02 16:11:05 UTC  |  Edited by: Roime
In football, you cause negative emotions in your opponent by making a goal, but making goals is the objective of the game, and both parties agree to get hurt by losing.

In extremely complex games without universally agreed objectives, like EVE, this agreement of one party taking loss in order to find out a winner is not mutual. Player A might have (one) objective "ISK efficiency", Player B might have (one) objective "mine XXX amount of minerals to build XXX".

So, EVE is a game, and saying "I can do X to meet my goal, it is allowed in the rules of this game" is correct. If Player B is aware of and accepts that Player A has this goal and he was just a general victim of a valid tactic, everything is fine.

Now obviously we have situations where Player B is not aware of Player A's objectives, and/or can't relate to them and therefore feels player A is doing him wrong, and is butthurt. Getting ganked out of the blue can be stressful and guns are pretty bad at delivering any complex messages about motivations. Not all players spend time on the forums or dedicate themselves to the world of New Eden so deeply to be aware of stuff like market manipulation etc- maybe they just like mining and building stuff. This is a problem caused by complexity of the game, neither party should be blamed for being assholes or ridiculed for crying over their loss.

Finally, we have situations where player C has a meta-game objective. Many players openly state that their motivation for griefing (meaning here an act of attacking a non-combatant) is "tear extraction" or "lulz" and teaching "the pussy carebears a lesson". This Player C does not appreciate Player B's game objectives, and actually does enjoy Player B getting butthurt. In this case player C is a victim of self-deception: he makes an effort to assure himself and others that "it's just a game", but he actually only uses the game as a media to inflict butthurt on another person.


Oh btw I totally ridicule the statement that people who get hurt by pixels should "get a life" - if it were true, we who get pleasure from pixels should all "get a life" too, sense of success is just as lol! Quality of emotions is irrelevant, the fact that we react is relevant. I would actually go a bit further and claim that we all get hurt by losing pixels, otherwise nothing we do in this game would have any value.

.

Alec Freeman
Sebiestor Tribe
Minmatar Republic
#525 - 2011-11-02 16:15:18 UTC
Eve: Capitalism Online
Handsome Hussein
#526 - 2011-11-02 16:31:02 UTC
MeestaPenni wrote:
If you don't mine, mission, ransom, loot, manufacture, etc., you're not indulging in the 'sandbox' that is envisioned. Any fool here with some real world liquidity can replace ships with real money.

If it worked as you stated, PLEX wouldn't exist (and I'd still be playing; you didn't read all of my statement or chose to selectively ignore parts of it).

However, PLEX does exist. You can buy it with RL cash, the same I use to pay for two subs. You can trade it on the "sandbox" market. Some people use it to essentially play for free. CPP endorses this. Whether you like the fact that i can spend my RL cash to avoid a grind or not, the item is being used as intended in the "sandbox as envisioned".

Leaves only the fresh scent of pine.

Ambassadeur Ur-Shulgi
Hedion University
Amarr Empire
#527 - 2011-11-02 16:38:10 UTC
Mortis vonShadow wrote:
Ambassadeur Ur-Shulgi wrote:
... we need to start using a much harder policy on bad behavior.....



Define bad behavior. Because to me, killing anyone in hisec isn't bad behavior, its good clean livin'.




If you follow human evolution, you see a clear pattern that, as soon as people come together in larger groups, Laws and regulations follow. If we dident do this we would still be hunters and gatherers and running around with stone clubbs. Civilazations prosper under LAW AND ORDER. disorder and chaos are seriously bad for human progression, things stagnated and crumble. The fall of the Roman empire took hundreads of years to Repair for example and we call that Period the dark ages for a reason.

EvE is in the Dark ages now and we badly need to bring it up to the renaissance.. WHY? you ask, because evolution is good the game has stagnated (both in subscriptions and in content) We have been living in the Dark ages for to long and I personlay think a change is needed.. ( ccp has seen this also and have slowly, made scaming harderd and highsec safer)

Dont fight change, We need a much more stable EvE universe for many many reasons;

1. More subscribers ( It is Fact that most people dont like to get greifed)
2. There are way to few concequences for actions ingame, and we need the Comunity to police itself ( Bounty licence would make this much easier to do)
3. A society like EvE cant work if there is no LAW and ORDER ( if you want to live in the frontier Both low sec and 0,0 are open for grabs) But Highsec kinda needs to go into a 0,1% Grifer mode.

I personly dont mind the griefing and the scaming done lots of it myself through the years, poded myself for bunties, sold fake bookmarks, Done corp infiltration and stolen **** etc.

But I Understand that this cant go on. The facts are out there "EvE has stagnated subscriber wise" More stability would bring more people too EVE.. So for sake of the game we need to take action against greifing...

Scamer corps shooting NOOBS, Corps setting up NOOBs in shell coperations too use them as target practice. Endless scammer spam in all mayor trade hubs. All work against the game. I saved countless noobs over the years from quiting the game after they have been used and abused by griefers and retards. I take a moral responcibility for the sake of the game. If we let Griefers Run the game we will soon not have anyone left to play with. This IS FACT.

people need to stop abusing NOOBS ingame and think about the consequences of them doing so. Less subscribers and stagnation might mean the end of EVE? is that what you want, the game too get shut down in a few years just so you could get your lolz while it lasted??

No! we need Crime and Punishment that works, I would even go so far as to say Jail time for offenders ( you cant play your charecter for a 1 week-1month) becuase you are in jail. Would be Realy good for the game.

Im sorry but we need to get out of the dark ages we been there for the past 7-8 years. Its time for the Renaissance were you actually get punished for crimes you comit against others..
MeestaPenni
Mercantile and Stuff
#528 - 2011-11-02 16:46:50 UTC
Handsome Hussein wrote:
MeestaPenni wrote:
If you don't mine, mission, ransom, loot, manufacture, etc., you're not indulging in the 'sandbox' that is envisioned. Any fool here with some real world liquidity can replace ships with real money.

If it worked as you stated, PLEX wouldn't exist (and I'd still be playing; you didn't read all of my statement or chose to selectively ignore parts of it).

However, PLEX does exist. You can buy it with RL cash, the same I use to pay for two subs. You can trade it on the "sandbox" market. Some people use it to essentially play for free. CPP endorses this. Whether you like the fact that i can spend my RL cash to avoid a grind or not, the item is being used as intended in the "sandbox as envisioned".


Blah blah blah.

If your mind set is that you can simply re-ship and re-fit via some cash and a couple of PLEX.....you're no longer playing in a sandbox......you're playing an arcade shooter. And your post stated you were perfectly willing to do that.

How you choose to pay for a subscription to play the game is not part of the "sandbox". That's ludicrous to think so.

I am not Prencleeve Grothsmore.

Handsome Hussein
#529 - 2011-11-02 16:50:32 UTC
MeestaPenni wrote:
If your mind set is that you can simply re-ship and re-fit via some cash and a couple of PLEX.....you're no longer playing in a sandbox......you're playing an arcade shooter. And your post stated you were perfectly willing to do that.

Awesome, I guess I'm playing an arcade shooter. How does that change the rules of the game?

MeestaPenni wrote:
How you choose to pay for a subscription to play the game is not part of the "sandbox". That's ludicrous to think so.

But you can pay for a subscription by using the sandbox. And you can buy ISK using RL cash by using the sandbox. So you can choose how to pay for a sub by using the sandbox. If I had more RL time to play this game, I'd probably try playing for free. Since I don't, I figured I'd let someone else make the ISK and pay their sub for a month every so often.

Leaves only the fresh scent of pine.

Jack Carrigan
Order of the Shadow
#530 - 2011-11-02 17:10:49 UTC
Someone is a tad bit misguided. Let me help you out, you poor, pathetic soul.

A sense of Morality is achieved through personal beliefs, environmental factors, etc, etc, etc.

Well most people who play EVE are your typical overworked, underpaid, underappreciated people (I include myself in this group as I'm military), and would stomp their employer's face into a curb if given the opportunity to do it, and get away with it.

System shocked yet? Well let's go a little further down then.

No one here is perfect that hasn't done something to completely go against their morals. EVERYONE has done something they're not proud of, because it eats at their conscience.

Now, the TL;DR of what is said above:

If you took the time to read that, you're more of a sucker than I thought. This is a ****ing game. Morality or the lack thereof should not become a topic of conversation in regards to it.

And furthermore, I do what I want.

I am the One who exists in Shadow. I am the Devil your parents warned you about.

||CEO: Order of the Shadow||Executor: The Revenant Order||Creator: Bowhead||

Mortis vonShadow
Balanaz Mining and Development Inc.
#531 - 2011-11-02 17:20:47 UTC
Jack Carrigan wrote:


And furthermore, I do what I want.



This.

+1 Jack.

Some days you're the bug, and some days your the windscreen.                   And some days, you're just a man with a gun.

Cipher Jones
The Thomas Edwards Taco Tuesday All Stars
#532 - 2011-11-02 17:26:52 UTC
Quote:
Fix the bounty system.


You will never ever ever ever ever be able to have a working bounty system in a game where people can control multiple accounts. Sucks but its simple mechanics.

internet spaceships

are serious business sir.

and don't forget it

Alpheias
Tactical Farmers.
Pandemic Horde
#533 - 2011-11-02 17:36:23 UTC  |  Edited by: Alpheias
Nothing makes me happier than you happily go to a station to buy a new ship. Maybe you are even humming to yourself and snapping a few screenshots as you undock.

I am so happy that you are happy with your new ship that I have to blow it up.

Agent of Chaos, Sower of Discord.

Don't talk to me unless you are IQ verified and certified with three references from non-family members. Please have your certificate of authenticity on hand.

Jaroslav Unwanted
Brutor Tribe
Minmatar Republic
#534 - 2011-11-02 17:41:34 UTC  |  Edited by: Jaroslav Unwanted
Jack Carrigan wrote:
Someone is a tad bit misguided. Let me help you out, you poor, pathetic soul.

A sense of Morality is achieved through personal beliefs, environmental factors, etc, etc, etc.

Well most people who play EVE are your typical overworked, underpaid, underappreciated people (I include myself in this group as I'm military), and would stomp their employer's face into a curb if given the opportunity to do it, and get away with it.

System shocked yet? Well let's go a little further down then.

No one here is perfect that hasn't done something to completely go against their morals. EVERYONE has done something they're not proud of, because it eats at their conscience.

Now, the TL;DR of what is said above:

If you took the time to read that, you're more of a sucker than I thought. This is a ****ing game. Morality or the lack thereof should not become a topic of conversation in regards to it.

And furthermore, I do what I want.



Than you are fine with being labeled as an "sadist". Thats probably the whole point of this thread. You acknowledge the act that you have no real place in modern society and therefore you use your "expresion" in computer game.

Thats fine with many posters in this thread. We do not approve but we got no force to change it. You are what you are.

edit : its good you dont hide behind the mask of i am the good and just guy who do the worst humanity can offer to people i dont know because its just an game.
Karl Planck
Perkone
Caldari State
#535 - 2011-11-02 17:46:21 UTC
Cipher Jones wrote:
Quote:
Fix the bounty system.


You will never ever ever ever ever be able to have a working bounty system in a game where people can control multiple accounts. Sucks but its simple mechanics.


not true if the entire system is an isk sink.

I has all the eve inactivity

Buruk Utama
Science and Trade Institute
Caldari State
#536 - 2011-11-02 18:00:52 UTC
It's not morality it all boils down to this:

Anonymous Theory
Cynter DeVries
Spheroidal Projections
#537 - 2011-11-02 18:01:41 UTC
Jack Carrigan wrote:
... Morality or the lack thereof should not become a topic of conversation in regards to it. ...


Seems to me the original question is using the word morality but really means the role playing of moral characters. Most MMOs aren't really RPGs.

Cynter's Law of feature suggestion: Thou shalt not suggest NPCs do something players could do instead.

Jaroslav Unwanted
Brutor Tribe
Minmatar Republic
#538 - 2011-11-02 18:11:44 UTC
Cynter DeVries wrote:
Jack Carrigan wrote:
... Morality or the lack thereof should not become a topic of conversation in regards to it. ...


Seems to me the original question is using the word morality but really means the role playing of moral characters. Most MMOs aren't really RPGs.


Its stopped to be an RPG once you as an person behind the screen take personal enjoyment at things you do, and you claim as much. Its in everyone's closet. You do stuff, you feel, you deal with it.

Well, true role players aside, thats an different sort of people who usually dont suffer with lack of imagination and dont go down to personall insults. Or at least thats my thought on them.
Karl Planck
Perkone
Caldari State
#539 - 2011-11-02 18:14:15 UTC
This thread is slowing working backwards toward the beginning.

I has all the eve inactivity

Jaroslav Unwanted
Brutor Tribe
Minmatar Republic
#540 - 2011-11-02 18:19:43 UTC
Karl Planck wrote:
This thread is slowing working backwards toward the beginning.


Maybe, i find the subject interesting non-then less. Plenty of interesting posts out there. Be it one i can see as well as one i dont fully endorse, which doesnt make them any less valid.