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Jita Park Speakers Corner

 
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Proposal for CSM Chairman, Secretary.

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Malcanis
Vanishing Point.
The Initiative.
#81 - 2013-05-01 11:50:01 UTC
Frying Doom wrote:
Snow Axe wrote:
Suprise, an incoherent response that misses the point entirely!

The point, Frying Doom, is that the titles themselves absolutely can have value in the right hands. You of all people should understand this since you used the inverse to argue that Trebor's failure to update wiki pages or whatever while he was CSM 6 Secretary was proof that nobody should vote for him.

Yes the office does have some duties, no where does it actually say that the leader of the CSM is the chairman.

It says "The responsibilities of the Chairman and Vice-Chairman are to handle official communications between the CSM
and CCP, and they are expected to be particularly active in interacting with the community. "

So you are looking for a good communicator, someone who communicates well and frequently with the community especially.

so Mynnna posting stats are total posts: 883
Jita Park Speakers Corner 25,48% (225 posts)
Market Discussions 19,59% (173 posts)
Corporation, Alliance and Organization Discussions 18,01% (159 posts)
EVE General Discussion 12,34% (109 posts)
now I will not say some of her marketing posts are not great, because they are, but all in all not a huge communicator.

Mike Azariah
Total posts 209
Jita Park Speakers Corner 68,42% (143 posts)
Assembly Hall 12,44% (26 posts)
EVE General Discussion 7,18% (15 posts)

So not that many but when you add in the fact he is also a blogger and the fact he hosts podside, that counts a lot more.

Then you have Ripard Teg, Yes out of all of them he has the highest level of communication and personally if did not believe the CSM needed a Hi-sec chairman to communicate with the masses (Most of which are hi-sec residents), I really do believe Ripard would make an excellent communicator with the player base of new eden. Lets face it he does it already.

Malcanis has good ideas, but he is elitist to the core, Mynnna is arrogant as hell, thankfully Malcanis does not want the job, and Mynnna is ill suited. Do what is best for the CSM and the game as a whole, not just your egos.


Mittens has 3978 posts. Obviously I'm four and a half times the communcator he is!

"Just remember later that I warned against any change to jump ranges or fatigue. You earned whats coming."

Grath Telkin, 11.10.2016
Arkon Olacar
black.listed
#82 - 2013-05-01 11:53:09 UTC
Frying Doom wrote:

The title did nothing to his abilities, except for fluffing his ego.

As that is all the title is for ego, I am suggesting giving an ego boost to hi-sec players, encouraging them to be more interested in the CSM, rather than those that already act like elitists.

I think CSM7 showed that it is just a title, taken by those who wish an inflated ego. It does not make the title holder, wise, communicative or educated.

If the title goes to Null as usual, it will show that the 10 Null members on the CSM are just there for their own egos and little more.

So according to you, if a 'null sec' member is given the title of chairman then they must be 'there for their own egos', whereas if a 'high sec' mumber is given the title then they must be some humble philanthropist taking up the burden for the good of the game?

Lay off the weed kid.
Temba Ronin
#83 - 2013-05-01 11:53:43 UTC
Malcanis wrote:
He's right though, 12% is a disappointing turnout.

It may well be a disappointing number but that would have more to do with personal expectations then empirical statistical projection.



Power To The Players!

The Best Ship In EVE Online Is "Friendship", Power To The Players!
Frying Doom
#84 - 2013-05-01 11:55:19 UTC
Temba Ronin wrote:
Frying Doom wrote:

Yes this is a game

But 12.12% is crap game or no game and it is even more crap when you consider the fact it is 1/4 lower than last year.

Please enlighten me sir as to the other MMO games that have elections for player representatives annually that have a greater then 12.12% participation. While you are at it would you also let me know what percentage of participation would constitute it no longer being crap?

Sir did you take into consideration that the elections for CSM6 & CSM7 took place in the run up to national elections in the United States of America whose citizens seem to do a disproportionately larger slice of the EVE Online player voting compared to their actual percentage of voters? In both those years the USA had a highly charged political situation, and the CSM8 election took place after a national election what we call the "off year" as in a non-presidential election campaign. Quite frequently "Off Year" election turnout is considerably lower.

Sir there do exist two separate fields of endeavor which are all too often confused, political science and political punditry. Although some opinions can indeed be facts not all opinions are factually based, you sir would do well to learn the difference.

CSM 8 election
United States
18894 votes
38.01% of votes
12.72% voters as % of subscribers
36.25% % of subscribers
So 36.25% % of subscribers and 38.01% of votes, about on the money

CSM 7 election
United States
22114 votes
37.41% of votes
17.36% voters as % of subscribers
35.85% % of subscribers
So 35.85% % of subscribers and 37.41% of votes.

So this election and the last people from the United states voted in a higher percentage than thy were a percentage of the population in csm 6 election, they where 36.88% of the population and cast 36.19% of the vote.

So elections in the USA seem to have very little to do with voter turn out in this game. Enough political science for you or was that political punditry. Lol

A percentage that is not crap for the CSM elections is one that is higher than the year before.


Any spelling, grammatical and punctuation errors are because frankly, I don't care!!
Frying Doom
#85 - 2013-05-01 11:58:03 UTC
Malcanis wrote:

Mittens has 3978 posts. Obviously I'm four and a half times the communcator he is!

Well you do tend to debate rather than demand.

Any spelling, grammatical and punctuation errors are because frankly, I don't care!!
Frying Doom
#86 - 2013-05-01 12:00:51 UTC
Arkon Olacar wrote:
Frying Doom wrote:

The title did nothing to his abilities, except for fluffing his ego.

As that is all the title is for ego, I am suggesting giving an ego boost to hi-sec players, encouraging them to be more interested in the CSM, rather than those that already act like elitists.

I think CSM7 showed that it is just a title, taken by those who wish an inflated ego. It does not make the title holder, wise, communicative or educated.

If the title goes to Null as usual, it will show that the 10 Null members on the CSM are just there for their own egos and little more.

So according to you, if a 'null sec' member is given the title of chairman then they must be 'there for their own egos', whereas if a 'high sec' mumber is given the title then they must be some humble philanthropist taking up the burden for the good of the game?

Lay off the weed kid.

As I have said before a Hi-sec chairman will do more to engage the player base than a Null sec one will, and so far I have only heard talk of 2 people for the chairman ship, one is purely for ego and the other just thinks it is his god given right.

Maybe others will step forward but would they be able to garner the amount of good will a hi-sec chairman would, very unlikely.

Any spelling, grammatical and punctuation errors are because frankly, I don't care!!
Temba Ronin
#87 - 2013-05-01 12:03:12 UTC
Frying Doom wrote:
Temba Ronin wrote:
Frying Doom wrote:

Yes this is a game

But 12.12% is crap game or no game and it is even more crap when you consider the fact it is 1/4 lower than last year.

Please enlighten me sir as to the other MMO games that have elections for player representatives annually that have a greater then 12.12% participation. While you are at it would you also let me know what percentage of participation would constitute it no longer being crap?

Sir did you take into consideration that the elections for CSM6 & CSM7 took place in the run up to national elections in the United States of America whose citizens seem to do a disproportionately larger slice of the EVE Online player voting compared to their actual percentage of voters? In both those years the USA had a highly charged political situation, and the CSM8 election took place after a national election what we call the "off year" as in a non-presidential election campaign. Quite frequently "Off Year" election turnout is considerably lower.

Sir there do exist two separate fields of endeavor which are all too often confused, political science and political punditry. Although some opinions can indeed be facts not all opinions are factually based, you sir would do well to learn the difference.

CSM 8 election
United States
18894 votes
38.01% of votes
12.72% voters as % of subscribers
36.25% % of subscribers
So 36.25% % of subscribers and 38.01% of votes, about on the money

CSM 7 election
United States
22114 votes
37.41% of votes
17.36% voters as % of subscribers
35.85% % of subscribers
So 35.85% % of subscribers and 37.41% of votes.

So this election and the last people from the United states voted in a higher percentage than thy were a percentage of the population in csm 6 election, they where 36.88% of the population and cast 36.19% of the vote.

So elections in the USA seem to have very little to do with voter turn out in this game. Enough political science for you or was that political punditry. Lol

A percentage that is not crap for the CSM elections is one that is higher than the year before.



So a crap election would be 98% voting participation if the previous year had a 99% level ..... I see the basis of your well staked out position. You sir are simply incorrect by any objective standard.




Power To The Players!

The Best Ship In EVE Online Is "Friendship", Power To The Players!
Temba Ronin
#88 - 2013-05-01 12:11:11 UTC
Frying Doom wrote:

CSM 8 election
United States
18894 votes
38.01% of votes
12.72% voters as % of subscribers
36.25% % of subscribers
So 36.25% % of subscribers and 38.01% of votes, about on the money

CSM 7 election
United States
22114 votes
37.41% of votes
17.36% voters as % of subscribers
35.85% % of subscribers
So 35.85% % of subscribers and 37.41% of votes.

So this election and the last people from the United states voted in a higher percentage than thy were a percentage of the population in csm 6 election, they where 36.88% of the population and cast 36.19% of the vote.

So elections in the USA seem to have very little to do with voter turn out in this game. Enough political science for you or was that political punditry. Lol

A percentage that is not crap for the CSM elections is one that is higher than the year before.



Sir could you please share your analysis for the CSM6 election as well .... unless of course it does not support the position you have taken .... then you can just continue to pretend I was only speaking of two elections and not three.



Power To The Players!

The Best Ship In EVE Online Is "Friendship", Power To The Players!
Frying Doom
#89 - 2013-05-01 12:15:20 UTC
Temba Ronin wrote:
So a crap election would be 98% voting participation if the previous year had a 99% level ..... I see the basis of your well staked out position. You sir are simply incorrect by any objective standard.
Power To The Players!

I believe that is refereed to as reductio ad absurdum.

There is a point where a minor drop is of no consequence, but if an election got 99% in one year and then got 75% on the next year, yes that would be bad or for that matter got 16.83% one year and 15.83% the next that is a minor drop.

Any spelling, grammatical and punctuation errors are because frankly, I don't care!!
Frying Doom
#90 - 2013-05-01 12:17:23 UTC  |  Edited by: Frying Doom
Temba Ronin wrote:
Frying Doom wrote:

CSM 8 election
United States
18894 votes
38.01% of votes
12.72% voters as % of subscribers
36.25% % of subscribers
So 36.25% % of subscribers and 38.01% of votes, about on the money

CSM 7 election
United States
22114 votes
37.41% of votes
17.36% voters as % of subscribers
35.85% % of subscribers
So 35.85% % of subscribers and 37.41% of votes.

So this election and the last people from the United states voted in a higher percentage than thy were a percentage of the population in csm 6 election, they where 36.88% of the population and cast 36.19% of the vote.

So elections in the USA seem to have very little to do with voter turn out in this game. Enough political science for you or was that political punditry. Lol

A percentage that is not crap for the CSM elections is one that is higher than the year before.



Sir could you please share your analysis for the CSM6 election as well .... unless of course it does not support the position you have taken .... then you can just continue to pretend I was only speaking of two elections and not three.



Power To The Players!

CSM8 election, CSM7 Election, CSM6 election.

Last time I looked 1+1+1=3

Maybe you have different maths in la la land.

Any spelling, grammatical and punctuation errors are because frankly, I don't care!!
Arkon Olacar
black.listed
#91 - 2013-05-01 12:17:51 UTC
Frying Doom wrote:

As I have said before a Hi-sec chairman will do more to engage the player base than a Null sec one will, and so far I have only heard talk of 2 people for the chairman ship, one is purely for ego and the other just thinks it is his god given right.

Maybe others will step forward but would they be able to garner the amount of good will a hi-sec chairman would, very unlikely.


But this is you talking out of your anus. You have no justification for why these two are there for their own egos other than 'because I said so lol'. Likewise you claim a highsec chairman would be able to garner more goodwill than an evil nullsec one and engage the playerbase better simply because that is your opinion, rather than basing your arguements on fact.

To quote you from another thread:

Frying Doom wrote:

Subsequently why I would like the chairman chosen for the PR value for the CSM, rather than just someones ego.


That is fair enough; however at no point have you explained with reasons based in reality why a highsec candidate would be better at this than a nullsec one. All you've done in this thread is try to drown out everyone else by shouting "HERP DERP NULLSEC R BAD HISEC GUD" repeatedly.
Frying Doom
#92 - 2013-05-01 12:20:24 UTC
Arkon Olacar wrote:
Frying Doom wrote:

As I have said before a Hi-sec chairman will do more to engage the player base than a Null sec one will, and so far I have only heard talk of 2 people for the chairman ship, one is purely for ego and the other just thinks it is his god given right.

Maybe others will step forward but would they be able to garner the amount of good will a hi-sec chairman would, very unlikely.


But this is you talking out of your anus. You have no justification for why these two are there for their own egos other than 'because I said so lol'. Likewise you claim a highsec chairman would be able to garner more goodwill than an evil nullsec one and engage the playerbase better simply because that is your opinion, rather than basing your arguements on fact.

To quote you from another thread:

Frying Doom wrote:

Subsequently why I would like the chairman chosen for the PR value for the CSM, rather than just someones ego.


That is fair enough; however at no point have you explained with reasons based in reality why a highsec candidate would be better at this than a nullsec one. All you've done in this thread is try to drown out everyone else by shouting "HERP DERP NULLSEC R BAD HISEC GUD" repeatedly.

At this point maybe you would like to go back to the CSM 8 voting threads and look at the people saying they cant be bothered voting for a self serving null CSM.

Any spelling, grammatical and punctuation errors are because frankly, I don't care!!
Arkon Olacar
black.listed
#93 - 2013-05-01 12:28:12 UTC
Frying Doom wrote:

At this point maybe you would like to go back to the CSM 8 voting threads and look at the people saying they cant be bothered voting for a self serving null CSM.

I can assure you we had more people on our forums going 'holy ****, how can Trebor be that pants on head ******** and yet not accidentally set himself on fire' after the last set of minutes were released.
Frying Doom
#94 - 2013-05-01 12:36:44 UTC
Arkon Olacar wrote:
Frying Doom wrote:

At this point maybe you would like to go back to the CSM 8 voting threads and look at the people saying they cant be bothered voting for a self serving null CSM.

I can assure you we had more people on our forums going 'holy ****, how can Trebor be that pants on head ******** and yet not accidentally set himself on fire' after the last set of minutes were released.

Ok

I will admit, every once in a while someone does say something as funny as hell.

Thank you Sir for the laugh.Lol

Any spelling, grammatical and punctuation errors are because frankly, I don't care!!
Temba Ronin
#95 - 2013-05-01 12:42:07 UTC
Frying Doom wrote:
Temba Ronin wrote:
Frying Doom wrote:

CSM 8 election
United States
18894 votes
38.01% of votes
12.72% voters as % of subscribers
36.25% % of subscribers
So 36.25% % of subscribers and 38.01% of votes, about on the money

CSM 7 election
United States
22114 votes
37.41% of votes
17.36% voters as % of subscribers
35.85% % of subscribers
So 35.85% % of subscribers and 37.41% of votes.

So this election and the last people from the United states voted in a higher percentage than thy were a percentage of the population in csm 6 election, they where 36.88% of the population and cast 36.19% of the vote.

So elections in the USA seem to have very little to do with voter turn out in this game. Enough political science for you or was that political punditry. Lol

A percentage that is not crap for the CSM elections is one that is higher than the year before.



Sir could you please share your analysis for the CSM6 election as well .... unless of course it does not support the position you have taken .... then you can just continue to pretend I was only speaking of two elections and not three.



Power To The Players!

CSM8 election, CSM7 Election, CSM6 election.

Last time I looked 1+1+1=3

Maybe you have different maths in la la land.

Perhaps we do, however you purposely omitted the vote count because it clearly supports the conclusion pointed to in my political punditry. I proposed that the political situation may have been a factor and the typical waxing and waning of voter participation could be projected in conjunction with normal Off Year & ramp up to national elections in the USA.

CSM6 17,766 Americans vote in a ramp up year,
CSM7 22,114 Americans vote in National election year,
CSM8 18,894 Americans vote in the Off Year ramp down.
We have this concept in la la land called a bell curve perhaps you've heard of it?

Well seems like my political punditry is validated by political science ..... & math.

As I told you earlier ...... Although some opinions can indeed be facts not all opinions are factually based, you sir would do well to learn the difference.



Power To The Players!

The Best Ship In EVE Online Is "Friendship", Power To The Players!
Arkon Olacar
black.listed
#96 - 2013-05-01 12:42:58 UTC
Frying Doom wrote:
Arkon Olacar wrote:
Frying Doom wrote:

At this point maybe you would like to go back to the CSM 8 voting threads and look at the people saying they cant be bothered voting for a self serving null CSM.

I can assure you we had more people on our forums going 'holy ****, how can Trebor be that pants on head ******** and yet not accidentally set himself on fire' after the last set of minutes were released.

Ok

I will admit, every once in a while someone does say something as funny as hell.

Thank you Sir for the laugh.Lol

No problem :)

But my point still stands: the chairman would need to engage with the whole playerbase - or at least the playerbase who keeps half an eye on whats going on - and just because a tiny handful of highsec players who believe these great sweeping tabloidesque stereotypes of the nullsec playerbase don't want 1 of the 10 nullsec CSM members to be chairman, doesn't mean their opinion represents the best for the CSM.

To be honest, we both know who would gain the most approval from the entire playerbase, and he has already ruled himself out of contention.
Frying Doom
#97 - 2013-05-01 13:05:44 UTC  |  Edited by: Frying Doom
Arkon Olacar wrote:

No problem :)

But my point still stands: the chairman would need to engage with the whole playerbase - or at least the playerbase who keeps half an eye on whats going on - and just because a tiny handful of highsec players who believe these great sweeping tabloidesque stereotypes of the nullsec playerbase don't want 1 of the 10 nullsec CSM members to be chairman, doesn't mean their opinion represents the best for the CSM.

To be honest, we both know who would gain the most approval from the entire playerbase, and he has already ruled himself out of contention.

Yes I will admit we could do with another of him.

A great communicator with a back bone. If he was from Hi-sec the better that would be because they would listen more if he was of their kind.

The biggest problem the CSM faces is its image among the playerbase. The fact that CCP decided to come out all for CSM 7, really did not help, they were viewed as CCP sell outs by some and just another bunch of Null sec players by others. If they had come out with a Dev blog like that as well as everything else they did after CSM6, this would be a whole different ball game.

Now as to why I am suggesting the chairman be from Hi-sec, is due to the fact it is now a communication role, not a leadership role. It is wholly possible to not be the chairman and still be the leader of the CSM.

The CSM needs to evolve beyond what it was where the chairman was just for ego and chose the person most likely to be able to communicate effectively with the population of the game as well as CCP.

Mynnna is a great thinker, so is Malcanis, I will admit I know little about a number of the Null candidates as they have rarely been on these forums. As to Ripard, I would love to see someone who writes so much be the Secretary, This position needs some love, CSM7 did nothing, the What is the CSM page is years out of date, there is so much in the Wiki hat needs fixing, and who better than the machine that is Ripard Teg.

If I was doing this as a crusade for myself I would be advocating James Arget, wormhole guy and frankly his Crossing Zebras interview blew me away but I do not argue this for my own benefit but for that of the CSM.

If there was another Mittani, yes make him chairman in a second, as I said even better if he was from Hi-sec, but alas there is no CSM8 member like that. So they should chose a chair-man that will communicate with the majority of EvE, and then chose a leader (should they deem this as necessary, after all it might be necessary for them each to lead one project)

CSM8 has a hard time regaining the voters that have been lost, first there is the disaster that was CSM 7 and then the fact they need to concentrate on that horrible wound in EvE called Null. Even with the new CCP process of working on all sorts of bits all over eve, they will need to push for Null fixes. So they will be perceived as just another Null lobby group.

I personally am glad we have people like Ripard Teg, Mynnna, Malcanis, Ali Aras, Chitsa Jason and James Arget on the CSM but I think someone from Hi-sec would raise both the standing and the PR value of the CSM in the eyes of the players.

Any spelling, grammatical and punctuation errors are because frankly, I don't care!!
EvilweaselSA
GoonCorp
Goonswarm Federation
#98 - 2013-05-01 13:17:54 UTC
Frying Doom wrote:

So you are looking for a good communicator, someone who communicates well and frequently with the community especially.

so Mynnna posting stats are total posts: 883
Jita Park Speakers Corner 25,48% (225 posts)
Market Discussions 19,59% (173 posts)
Corporation, Alliance and Organization Discussions 18,01% (159 posts)
EVE General Discussion 12,34% (109 posts)
now I will not say some of her marketing posts are not great, because they are, but all in all not a huge communicator.

in addition to everything that's wrong that you've posted (all of it) mynnna usually posted on Corestwo on eveo before he ran for csm.
Frying Doom
#99 - 2013-05-01 13:19:22 UTC  |  Edited by: Frying Doom
EvilweaselSA wrote:

in addition to everything that's wrong that you've posted (all of it) mynnna usually posted on Corestwo on eveo before he ran for csm.

Corestwo

Total Posts:1661
Market Discussions 55,63% (924 posts)
EVE General Discussion 13,73% (228 posts)
Sell Orders 11,14% (185 posts)

So Still mostly marketing posts, Not posts in here and few in General.

Any spelling, grammatical and punctuation errors are because frankly, I don't care!!
Temba Ronin
#100 - 2013-05-01 13:42:49 UTC  |  Edited by: Temba Ronin
Frying Doom wrote:


CSM8 has a hard time regaining the voters that have been lost, first there is the disaster that was CSM 7

You continually state your opinion as if because you said it it must be so, .... sorry to burst your bubble but the facts do not support you.

The average voter participation in the past 3 CSM elections was 14.33%
The highest percentage was 16.63%
The lowest percentage was 12.12%
the highest about two and one half percent above the average
the lowest about two and one half percent below the average

Although I've spoken to some factors that probably had an impact on voter participation, one would be negligent to not consider the field of candidates that ran and how the campaign was conducted.

I would propose that several of the leading candidates presented themselves very well to the interested voters without throwing rocks at their opponents. I suspect many of them felt like we had a good batch to pick from and the obvious loons were ... well obvious loons.

This was made possible by the fact that CSM7 had washed itself clean of most of the drama and worked to get things done. The feeling that we needed revolution to get CCP back on track no longer existed. Players were enjoying the game, the new ships, the expansion upgrades and the crisis had subsided.

Now I say these things as my observations because many other factors can be considered, if you want to be taken seriously and leave the realm of wild eyed rock thrower you might consider being less absolutist in your statements that are easily disproven.


Power To The Players!

The Best Ship In EVE Online Is "Friendship", Power To The Players!