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Proposal for CSM Chairman, Secretary.

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mynnna
State War Academy
Caldari State
#41 - 2013-05-01 04:46:07 UTC
Frying Doom wrote:
mynnna wrote:
Invented cause: "Chair and vice chair were both from nullsec, and neither seemed to communicate very well."
Effect you are claiming: "Interest in the CSM dropped and turnout was lower for the next CSM election."
Evidence that actually gets you from cause to effect: QuestionQuestionQuestion

All I am doing is asking you to provide us with the evidence that gets you from cause to effect. I am inventing nor claiming nothing.

e: Well, okay, I reversed your previous statement. Sane people recognize this as mockery, however, rather than a serious statement.

So are you claiming that the chairman and vice-chairmans lack of communication, trebors wonderful plan for CCP to chose 5 people to go to Iceland, had nothing to do with the voter turn out? The cause of the low voter turn out were the actions of CSM7.

It hardly takes a rocket scientist to figure out that if the CSM acts like CSM did, voter turnout will fall. Your inability to grasp this really does not bode well for you being chairman, as you do not seem to grasp that what CSM7 did turned away voters.


I am claiming nothing, except that you have no proof connecting your supposed cause and effect. You might as well be saying "The sky is blue, therefore jelly doughnut."

Member of the Goonswarm Economic Warfare Cabal
Frying Doom
#42 - 2013-05-01 04:59:50 UTC
mynnna wrote:
Frying Doom wrote:
mynnna wrote:
Invented cause: "Chair and vice chair were both from nullsec, and neither seemed to communicate very well."
Effect you are claiming: "Interest in the CSM dropped and turnout was lower for the next CSM election."
Evidence that actually gets you from cause to effect: QuestionQuestionQuestion

All I am doing is asking you to provide us with the evidence that gets you from cause to effect. I am inventing nor claiming nothing.

e: Well, okay, I reversed your previous statement. Sane people recognize this as mockery, however, rather than a serious statement.

So are you claiming that the chairman and vice-chairmans lack of communication, trebors wonderful plan for CCP to chose 5 people to go to Iceland, had nothing to do with the voter turn out? The cause of the low voter turn out were the actions of CSM7.

It hardly takes a rocket scientist to figure out that if the CSM acts like CSM did, voter turnout will fall. Your inability to grasp this really does not bode well for you being chairman, as you do not seem to grasp that what CSM7 did turned away voters.


I am claiming nothing, except that you have no proof connecting your supposed cause and effect. You might as well be saying "The sky is blue, therefore jelly doughnut."

Yes and the 1930's great depression had nothing to do with people jumping out of windows.

You really would sell any crock of crap, just so you trying to be chairman doesn't just look like ego padding.

Maybe if you actually paid attention you would be able to see that CSM7s actions did lower the voter turn out.

But you will just dodge so you can be just another Null sec chairman out to feed your ego.

Any spelling, grammatical and punctuation errors are because frankly, I don't care!!
Frying Doom
#43 - 2013-05-01 05:04:14 UTC
Alphea Abbra wrote:
Poetic Stanziel wrote:
Alekseyev Karrde wrote:
Frying Doom wrote:
And frankly after your tinfoil hat comment, no your opinion doesn't count.

Frying knows he's not crazy. You're crazy for thinking he's crazy, because if he's crazy then %87.88 of the player base is crazy because Frying knows how they think and they agree with him. 88% of the players cant be crazy, that's just logic man. It's the 22% of the players that THINK they're normal man, THEY'RE the crazy ones not Frying Doom.
Call me crazy, but some of this math is wrong.
No, it just shows you're part of the Goonspiracy too!
Regular math? That's crazy! You can expect people to take your opinion seriously with sheep mentality math!

Use some non-corrupt math!

2+2=5!

log(10) = 3 !

Stop using this conformist Goonspiracy math, it's scaring voters off!

Cool

Now while 88% plus 22% would mean 110%, is not really good maths, I must point out that it is not impossible for people who are as mad as a hatter, to actually believe they are sane.

Take you as the perfect example.

Mind you I do love your use or Goonspiracy, shame you think your own alliance is to insignificant to be capable of anything like that and a Null sec CSM member using the chairmans position to stuff their own egos is hardly a conspiracy, or something new for that matter.

Any spelling, grammatical and punctuation errors are because frankly, I don't care!!
mynnna
State War Academy
Caldari State
#44 - 2013-05-01 05:09:45 UTC  |  Edited by: mynnna
Frying Doom wrote:
Maybe if you actually paid attention you would be able to see that CSM7s actions did lower the voter turn out.


Just saying something over and over doesn't make it true. Nor does, for that matter, resorting to ad hominem attacks to try to cover up the lack of evidence.

Member of the Goonswarm Economic Warfare Cabal
Frying Doom
#45 - 2013-05-01 05:21:43 UTC
mynnna wrote:
Frying Doom wrote:
Maybe if you actually paid attention you would be able to see that CSM7s actions did lower the voter turn out.


Just saying something over and over doesn't make it true. Nor does, for that matter, resorting to ad hominem attacks to try to cover up the lack of evidence.

You really must be clueless if you believe CSM7s actions did not lower the voter turn out.

But I suppose this way if you act clueless you can stuff your ego with the chairmans position, right?

Any spelling, grammatical and punctuation errors are because frankly, I don't care!!
mynnna
State War Academy
Caldari State
#46 - 2013-05-01 05:32:32 UTC  |  Edited by: mynnna
Here's what you would need to do to prove your statement. Get the list of voters from last year. Get the list of voters from this year. If there are voters from last year who did not vote this year, poll at least a statistically valid sample of them, and see what they say.

Unless you can do that, all you're doing is asserting your own belief as truth, and since you can't do that, you're instead resorting to calling me dumb and clueless and such - one ad hominem attack after another - in lieu of that actual evidence.

Member of the Goonswarm Economic Warfare Cabal
Frying Doom
#47 - 2013-05-01 05:45:20 UTC
mynnna wrote:
Here's what you would need to do to prove your statement. Get the list of voters from last year. Get the list of voters from this year. If there are voters from last year who did not vote this year, poll at least a statistically valid sample of them, and see what they say.

Unless you can do that, all you're doing is asserting your own belief as truth, and since you can't do that, you're instead resorting to calling me dumb and clueless and such - one ad hominem attack after another - in lieu of that actual evidence.

Yes that is how you prove something is bad.

Or you might just open your eyes and read these forums or talk to people in hi-sec

Like I said anything for the chairman's seat huh, will be nice to see you polling everyone to get evidence that fixing null is a good idea.Lol

Any spelling, grammatical and punctuation errors are because frankly, I don't care!!
mynnna
State War Academy
Caldari State
#48 - 2013-05-01 05:49:32 UTC
"The evidence is so obvious I don't even have to explain it" is another common argument people who can't actually defend what they're saying like to use.

Member of the Goonswarm Economic Warfare Cabal
Frying Doom
#49 - 2013-05-01 06:01:47 UTC
mynnna wrote:
"The evidence is so obvious I don't even have to explain it" is another common argument people who can't actually defend what they're saying like to use.

Are you a member of the flat earth society? Your arguments make that much sense.

So why do you believe the CSM voter numbers took a nose dive, or are you already towing the company line with "Peace-time CSM"?

Any spelling, grammatical and punctuation errors are because frankly, I don't care!!
Malcanis
Vanishing Point.
The Initiative.
#50 - 2013-05-01 06:18:49 UTC
Frying Doom wrote:
mynnna wrote:
"The evidence is so obvious I don't even have to explain it" is another common argument people who can't actually defend what they're saying like to use.

Are you a member of the flat earth society? Your arguments make that much sense.

So why do you believe the CSM voter numbers took a nose dive, or are you already towing the company line with "Peace-time CSM"?


The flat earth hypothesis has been disproved by people who used evidence and maths in their proof. They did a good job, so now everyone accepts the world is round, but that acceptance is only because of the evidence and maths.

I assume that you picked an example that so obviously counters your argument as an indirectly ironic way of conceding that mynnna is right?

"Just remember later that I warned against any change to jump ranges or fatigue. You earned whats coming."

Grath Telkin, 11.10.2016
Snow Axe
Republic Military School
Minmatar Republic
#51 - 2013-05-01 06:21:56 UTC
Frying Doom wrote:
Are you a member of the flat earth society? ?


Are you? I just ask because you both have the whole "screech loudly about how your beliefs are true because they're your beliefs" thing going on.

"Look any reason why you need to talk like that? I have now reported you. I dont need to listen to your bad tone. If you cant have a grown up conversation then leave the thread["
dark heartt
#52 - 2013-05-01 07:07:42 UTC
Malcanis wrote:
Frying Doom wrote:
mynnna wrote:
"The evidence is so obvious I don't even have to explain it" is another common argument people who can't actually defend what they're saying like to use.

Are you a member of the flat earth society? Your arguments make that much sense.

So why do you believe the CSM voter numbers took a nose dive, or are you already towing the company line with "Peace-time CSM"?


The flat earth hypothesis has been disproved by people who used evidence and maths in their proof. They did a good job, so now everyone accepts the world is round, but that acceptance is only because of the evidence and maths.

I assume that you picked an example that so obviously counters your argument as an indirectly ironic way of conceding that mynnna is right?


I was going to say that right now.

Until there is concrete evidence there is no way for either side of this argument to "win". It's just a subjective opinion thing, Frying's negative CSM opinion vs everyone else.

http://tetrisisunrealistic.blogspot.com.au/
Frying Doom
#53 - 2013-05-01 07:07:48 UTC
Malcanis wrote:
Frying Doom wrote:
mynnna wrote:
"The evidence is so obvious I don't even have to explain it" is another common argument people who can't actually defend what they're saying like to use.

Are you a member of the flat earth society? Your arguments make that much sense.

So why do you believe the CSM voter numbers took a nose dive, or are you already towing the company line with "Peace-time CSM"?


The flat earth hypothesis has been disproved by people who used evidence and maths in their proof. They did a good job, so now everyone accepts the world is round, but that acceptance is only because of the evidence and maths.

I assume that you picked an example that so obviously counters your argument as an indirectly ironic way of conceding that mynnna is right?

I do love such definitive statements from people, they so often turn out to be wrong.

Wikipedia wrote:
Flat Earth Society

The Flat Earth Society (also known as the International Flat Earth Society or the International Flat Earth Research Society) is an organization that seeks to further the idea that the Earth is flat instead of an oblate spheroid. The modern organization was founded by Englishman Samuel Shenton in 1956[1] and was later led by Charles K. Johnson, who based the organization in his home in Lancaster, California. The formal society was inactive after Johnson’s death in 2001 but was resurrected in 2004 by its new president Daniel Shenton.


They exist so apparently everyone was not convinced.

Personally I prefer the fight people had against the theory that the earth was the center of the universe and how they eventually proved those who believed they were right, were actually dead wrong.

Any spelling, grammatical and punctuation errors are because frankly, I don't care!!
Frying Doom
#54 - 2013-05-01 07:10:42 UTC
Snow Axe wrote:
Frying Doom wrote:
Are you a member of the flat earth society? ?


Are you? I just ask because you both have the whole "screech loudly about how your beliefs are true because they're your beliefs" thing going on.

No I thought being part of a small minority was more of a Goonswarm thing. Well that and padding your ego at the expense of the rest of the game.

Any spelling, grammatical and punctuation errors are because frankly, I don't care!!
dark heartt
#55 - 2013-05-01 07:21:48 UTC
Frying Doom wrote:

They exist so apparently everyone was not convinced.


They are however crazy...... Hmm I'm seeing a trend here...

http://tetrisisunrealistic.blogspot.com.au/
Malcanis
Vanishing Point.
The Initiative.
#56 - 2013-05-01 07:25:23 UTC
Frying Doom wrote:
Malcanis wrote:
Frying Doom wrote:
mynnna wrote:
"The evidence is so obvious I don't even have to explain it" is another common argument people who can't actually defend what they're saying like to use.

Are you a member of the flat earth society? Your arguments make that much sense.

So why do you believe the CSM voter numbers took a nose dive, or are you already towing the company line with "Peace-time CSM"?


The flat earth hypothesis has been disproved by people who used evidence and maths in their proof. They did a good job, so now everyone accepts the world is round, but that acceptance is only because of the evidence and maths.

I assume that you picked an example that so obviously counters your argument as an indirectly ironic way of conceding that mynnna is right?

I do love such definitive statements from people, they so often turn out to be wrong.

Wikipedia wrote:
Flat Earth Society

The Flat Earth Society (also known as the International Flat Earth Society or the International Flat Earth Research Society) is an organization that seeks to further the idea that the Earth is flat instead of an oblate spheroid. The modern organization was founded by Englishman Samuel Shenton in 1956[1] and was later led by Charles K. Johnson, who based the organization in his home in Lancaster, California. The formal society was inactive after Johnson’s death in 2001 but was resurrected in 2004 by its new president Daniel Shenton.


They exist so apparently everyone was not convinced.

Personally I prefer the fight people had against the theory that the earth was the center of the universe and how they eventually proved those who believed they were right, were actually dead wrong.


You realise that the FES is a troll, right? Like the Landover Baptists?

"Just remember later that I warned against any change to jump ranges or fatigue. You earned whats coming."

Grath Telkin, 11.10.2016
Frying Doom
#57 - 2013-05-01 07:39:39 UTC  |  Edited by: Frying Doom
Malcanis wrote:
You realise that the FES is a troll, right? Like the Landover Baptists?

http://www.guardian.co.uk/global/2010/feb/23/flat-earth-society

Any spelling, grammatical and punctuation errors are because frankly, I don't care!!
Frying Doom
#58 - 2013-05-01 07:45:40 UTC
dark heartt wrote:
Frying Doom wrote:

They exist so apparently everyone was not convinced.


They are however crazy...... Hmm I'm seeing a trend here...

You seem very quick to class people who believe differently to you as crazy.

Now while I will admit I do not believe in the ideas of the flat earth society, I do admire there ability to think outside the box.

But I am sure you believe that the voting was down due to it being a peace time CSM.

Any spelling, grammatical and punctuation errors are because frankly, I don't care!!
Temba Ronin
#59 - 2013-05-01 07:45:59 UTC  |  Edited by: Temba Ronin
The people who did not vote made a decision to not participate, fortunately I believe we elected a CSM that will rally around making the game better.

During the election this particular thread's original post writer was quite prolific in these forums and had every opportunity to persuade us, his fellow EVE players to vote for the slate of candidates he approved of, most of us who voted were not persuaded by his arguments on their behalf or their campaigns. Change is hard and being on the losing side of an election you feel strongly about is not easy. Elections have consequences, when your ideas do not prevail it usually does little good to continue to hurl unproductive rocks at the winners. Specifically it is not reasonable to state definitively that you know how the vast majority of players who did not choose to vote feel about what should happen in the game and what areas should be prioritized, making such a claim completely undermines your credibility because such a thing is unknowable.

I for one want to see players have continued and more effective input with CCP and the CSM is a proven vehicle to accomplish that. We have a new CSM and we should give them an opportunity to perform.



Power To The Players!

The Best Ship In EVE Online Is "Friendship", Power To The Players!
Frying Doom
#60 - 2013-05-01 08:12:18 UTC
Temba Ronin wrote:
The people who did not vote made a decision to not participate, fortunately I believe we elected a CSM that will rally around making the game better.
But it should still be the policy of the CSM to try to get more people to vote in the following election.

Temba Ronin wrote:
his fellow EVE players to vote for the slate of candidates he approved of

That is why it is politics. [/quote]
As to being on the losing side, actually I primarily supported the WH candidates and was happy as hell, two of them got in.

But this does not mean we should just accept a CSM or for that matter a government that is not acting in the best intrest of the game or country.

We should not just role over and play dead now that they are elected, we should express our wishes in the strongest possible terms. If nothing else just so we do not have another non-communicate, non-transparent CSM like CSM7.

Is another Null Chairman going to get more people out to vote, or a hi-sec chairman?

Yes The Mittani did a good job, but more people would have voted in CSM7 if he was part of the majority and not a minority.

Any spelling, grammatical and punctuation errors are because frankly, I don't care!!