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Ice prices are too damn high!

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Anna Karhunen
Inoue INEXP
#121 - 2013-04-30 21:16:27 UTC
Bumping sounds like something that should spawn a familiar type of enterprise: Customers would fly their ship to the end of the queue, pay 10 ISK or whatever to the bumper and then get bumped, while yelling: "WHEEEEEEE!"

As my old maths teacher used to say: "Statistics are like bikinis: It's what they don't show that's interesting". -CCP Aporia
Xython
Federal Navy Academy
Gallente Federation
#122 - 2013-04-30 21:17:26 UTC
Danni stark wrote:
Xython wrote:
Captain Tardbar wrote:


Thanks for the confirmation. Now I know where to look. Hopefully people won't be trolls in the multiple ice anomaly fields and mine everything out but the last 1m3 so the belt won't respawn.


Why, thank you for this wonderful idea. I shall cherish it for the next few months. :)

Won't work though: Anyone can scan them down (and the bots will be updated within hours after the expansion is live, if not earlier due to the test server), and thus anyone can rush in and take out that last 1m3. You wouldn't delay the respawn for more than a few minutes at most.

No, if you really want to get creative, what you do is fly in there with a bunch of NPC corp alts and bump anyone trying to mine that last 1m3. If you were careful, you could keep that 1m3 stuck in limbo for hours if not days, shutting down all ice production in that anom.

... Hmm... Pirate


and garpa tells me there are only 114 high sec systems to shut down...
but that might change due to the amarr systems changing.


Not about shutting all of it down. It's about ruining a botter's day.
LHA Tarawa
Pator Tech School
Minmatar Republic
#123 - 2013-04-30 21:18:51 UTC
I wonder if the null ice anoms will be significantly larger (more ice) than the high sec ones.

If they want more ice mining in null, it would seem to make sense that the anoms will have more ice, so they can't be mined out in a couple hours, like it seems they expect the high sec ones to be.
Octoven
Stellar Production
#124 - 2013-04-30 21:21:07 UTC  |  Edited by: Octoven
LHA Tarawa wrote:
I wonder if the null ice anoms will be significantly larger (more ice) than the high sec ones.

If they want more ice mining in null, it would seem to make sense that the anoms will have more ice, so they can't be mined out in a couple hours, like it seems they expect the high sec ones to be.


Null sec and low sec ice will still be in static belts its only high sec that will be moved to anoms :)

The interesting part is how people freak out so much over this. Its an interesting dynamic but I dont think ice prices will stay where they are. It will settle down after Odyssey is released.
Danni stark
#125 - 2013-04-30 21:24:57 UTC
Octoven wrote:
LHA Tarawa wrote:
I wonder if the null ice anoms will be significantly larger (more ice) than the high sec ones.

If they want more ice mining in null, it would seem to make sense that the anoms will have more ice, so they can't be mined out in a couple hours, like it seems they expect the high sec ones to be.


Null sec and low sec ice will still be in static belts its only high sec that will be moved to anoms



Quote:
When Odyssey is released, the current static (and massive) ice belts spread throughout space will be removed from the game,


seems not.

Ice Mining Skill Plan.
Derath Ellecon
University of Caille
Gallente Federation
#126 - 2013-04-30 21:27:37 UTC
Octoven wrote:
LHA Tarawa wrote:
I wonder if the null ice anoms will be significantly larger (more ice) than the high sec ones.

If they want more ice mining in null, it would seem to make sense that the anoms will have more ice, so they can't be mined out in a couple hours, like it seems they expect the high sec ones to be.


Null sec and low sec ice will still be in static belts its only high sec that will be moved to anoms :)

The interesting part is how people freak out so much over this. Its an interesting dynamic but I dont think ice prices will stay where they are. It will settle down after Odyssey is released.


Completely wrong. But oops someone already beat me to it.
Malcanis
Vanishing Point.
The Initiative.
#127 - 2013-04-30 21:29:06 UTC
LHA Tarawa wrote:
I wonder if the null ice anoms will be significantly larger (more ice) than the high sec ones.

If they want more ice mining in null, it would seem to make sense that the anoms will have more ice, so they can't be mined out in a couple hours, like it seems they expect the high sec ones to be.


Current ice belts have so much ice that it's virtually impossible to mine them out before they respawn.

"Just remember later that I warned against any change to jump ranges or fatigue. You earned whats coming."

Grath Telkin, 11.10.2016
LHA Tarawa
Pator Tech School
Minmatar Republic
#128 - 2013-04-30 21:35:08 UTC
Malcanis wrote:
LHA Tarawa wrote:
I wonder if the null ice anoms will be significantly larger (more ice) than the high sec ones.

If they want more ice mining in null, it would seem to make sense that the anoms will have more ice, so they can't be mined out in a couple hours, like it seems they expect the high sec ones to be.


Current ice belts have so much ice that it's virtually impossible to mine them out before they respawn.



Yeah... it is pretty much impossible to pop a single glacial rock, with 20-30 people shooting at it.

But, that is moot since the belts are going away, to be replaced with ice anoms.

It seems CCP expects the high sec anoms to be mined out in an hour or two, since they are figuring 4 respawns a day. I wonder how many miners they are assuming to pop it that quickly? 50-100-500?

Will the null anoms be larger? If a null corp puts together an ice of of 50 toons, are they too going to pop the anom in an hour or two, then have to wait 4 hours for respawn?
Octoven
Stellar Production
#129 - 2013-04-30 21:35:43 UTC
OBVIOUSLY i was trolling.

All low-security and null-security systems that currently contain static ice belts, as well as all high security systems in Caldari, Gallente and Minmatar space that contain static ice belts, will contain the new ice anomalies.
Octoven
Stellar Production
#130 - 2013-04-30 21:37:45 UTC
LHA Tarawa wrote:
Malcanis wrote:
LHA Tarawa wrote:
I wonder if the null ice anoms will be significantly larger (more ice) than the high sec ones.

If they want more ice mining in null, it would seem to make sense that the anoms will have more ice, so they can't be mined out in a couple hours, like it seems they expect the high sec ones to be.


Current ice belts have so much ice that it's virtually impossible to mine them out before they respawn.



Yeah... it is pretty much impossible to pop a single glacial rock, with 20-30 people shooting at it.

But, that is moot since the belts are going away, to be replaced with ice anoms.

It seems CCP expects the high sec anoms to be mined out in an hour or two, since they are figuring 4 respawns a day. I wonder how many miners they are assuming to pop it that quickly? 50-100-500?

Will the null anoms be larger? If a null corp puts together an ice of of 50 toons, are they too going to pop the anom in an hour or two, then have to wait 4 hours for respawn?


I honestly cant see null sec pilots depleting their ice anoms faster then high sec but whatever. 4 hours is plenty of time. I mean unless they have like 600 miners out there mining it. Remember that ice harvester cycle times will be 50% longer as well.
DarthNefarius
Minmatar Heavy Industries
#131 - 2013-04-30 21:41:49 UTC  |  Edited by: DarthNefarius
Octoven wrote:
[quote=LHA Tarawa]
Null sec and low sec ice will still be in static belts its only high sec that will be moved to anoms :)


SOURCE? Linky please
EDIT:lol Troll... you even admitted it after proven wrong
An' then Chicken@little.com, he come scramblin outta the    Terminal room screaming "The system's crashing! The system's    crashing!" -Uncle RAMus, 'Tales for Cyberpsychotic Children'
Danni stark
#132 - 2013-04-30 21:46:42 UTC
Octoven wrote:
Remember that ice harvester cycle times will be 50% longer as well.


are you misinformed, or special?

Ice Mining Skill Plan.
Grigori Annunaki
#133 - 2013-04-30 21:50:44 UTC
Danni stark wrote:
Octoven wrote:
Remember that ice harvester cycle times will be 50% longer as well.


are you misinformed, or special?

Like most guys, he's confused "longer" and "shorter."
Shepard Wong Ogeko
Native Freshfood
Minmatar Republic
#134 - 2013-04-30 21:52:36 UTC
Danni stark wrote:
Shepard Wong Ogeko wrote:
Captain Tardbar wrote:
Danni stark wrote:
logic would dictate, as a miner, you would carry on mining ore until the ice belt respawned. or you'd be sensible and mine in a system with multiple ice anoms so you could do them one after another.


Do we have any confirmation on multiple ice anomalies? Or is this part of my suspicion as well, but no solid backing.


The guys from ccp said during the industry roundtable that systems that currently have multiple ice belts will have multiple ice anoms post-patch.

And that in such systems one could possible mine ice constantly because the time it takes to mine out an anom would be enough that another could spawn by the time you finished the one you are in.


fozzy confirmed there are 2.5k units of ice in an anom.

for it to take 4 hours to mine out an anom that's 5 mackinaws per ice anom.
have you ever seen an ice belt with only 4 mackinaws in it?


Thanks for demonstrating you can't read. He was asking if there would be systems with more than 1 ice anom. CCP says there will be. So in those cases, you could mine out an anom in less than 4 hours and be able to move on to another anom.


Personally, I'm loving this whole change. Excellent kick in the nuts for the idea of infinite resources. I hope they end up tuning it down beneath that 80% supply they are aiming for. Now, instead of us sticking it to complacent ice miners, ice miners will be screwing each other. It is like a perpetual tears machine.
Danni stark
#135 - 2013-04-30 21:56:19 UTC  |  Edited by: Danni stark
Shepard Wong Ogeko wrote:
Danni stark wrote:
Shepard Wong Ogeko wrote:
Captain Tardbar wrote:
Danni stark wrote:
logic would dictate, as a miner, you would carry on mining ore until the ice belt respawned. or you'd be sensible and mine in a system with multiple ice anoms so you could do them one after another.


Do we have any confirmation on multiple ice anomalies? Or is this part of my suspicion as well, but no solid backing.


The guys from ccp said during the industry roundtable that systems that currently have multiple ice belts will have multiple ice anoms post-patch.

And that in such systems one could possible mine ice constantly because the time it takes to mine out an anom would be enough that another could spawn by the time you finished the one you are in.


fozzy confirmed there are 2.5k units of ice in an anom.

for it to take 4 hours to mine out an anom that's 5 mackinaws per ice anom.
have you ever seen an ice belt with only 4 mackinaws in it?


Thanks for demonstrating you can't read. He was asking if there would be systems with more than 1 ice anom. CCP says there will be. So in those cases, you could mine out an anom in less than 4 hours and be able to move on to another anom.


Personally, I'm loving this whole change. Excellent kick in the nuts for the idea of infinite resources. I hope they end up tuning it down beneath that 80% supply they are aiming for. Now, instead of us sticking it to complacent ice miners, ice miners will be screwing each other. It is like a perpetual tears machine.


considering i'd already answered that, i'd say i can read. vOv.

although your hostile response aside, i'm also looking forward to these changes. for all the ice sites to be mined out every day there needs to be at least 24 max skilled mackinaw pilots (with boosts and a hauler) in each system containing ice anoms.

Ice Mining Skill Plan.
Shepard Wong Ogeko
Native Freshfood
Minmatar Republic
#136 - 2013-04-30 22:01:50 UTC  |  Edited by: Shepard Wong Ogeko
Danni stark wrote:
not that you answered his question, so did you not read?


He asked if there would be more than 1 ice anom in a system. CCP said there would be multiple ice anoms in systems that currently have multiple ice belts.

They even hope that those systems would let ice miners hop from one anom to the next, but we'll see how that plays out.

listen for yourself;

https://soundcloud.com/javafanatic/eve-fanfest-2013-industry
Danni stark
#137 - 2013-04-30 22:05:31 UTC
Shepard Wong Ogeko wrote:
Danni stark wrote:
not that you answered his question, so did you not read?


He asked if there would be more than 1 ice anom in a system. CCP said there would be multiple ice anoms in systems that currently have multiple ice belts.

They even hope that those systems would let ice miners hop from one anom to the next, but we'll see how that plays out.

listen for yourself;

https://soundcloud.com/javafanatic/eve-fanfest-2013-industry


yes, i'm well aware, i answered his question before you came along.

Ice Mining Skill Plan.
mkint
#138 - 2013-04-30 23:10:21 UTC
CCP Fozzie wrote:
Haulie Berry wrote:
CCP Fozzie wrote:
None ofthe Above wrote:

The change in the mechanic makes a bit of sense to me, but this part about only spawning enough in high sec to meet 80% of high sec's demand has left me scratching my shiny head.


You're reading it wrong. Highsec will only spawn enough ice to meet 80% of the whole universe's demand. It will spawn roughly 800% of what it needs to meet Highsec's demand.


Just for funsies, currently what percentage of the universe's ice consumption is sourced from high sec?


Currently 98.4% of all isotope ice is mined in highsec.

While highsec uses less than 15% of the isotopes in EVE.

Won't... won't that break the economy? Having a static yield that cannot change, but a flexible demand... a demand that will only increase, assuming you expect the player base to increase rather than decrease. The price will spiral exponentially out of control.

You're adding a 2nd rule to nullsec: 1) you must have supercaps to claim sov, you must have sov to get supercaps, 2) you must have topes to get sov, you must have sov income to afford topes.

Like EVE isn't broken enough. :S

Maxim 6. If violence wasn’t your last resort, you failed to resort to enough of it.
Malcanis
Vanishing Point.
The Initiative.
#139 - 2013-04-30 23:25:10 UTC
You're assuming that more ice won't get mined in nullsec, and that none of the surplus ice production in nullsec will be traded.

But the HBC, for instance, can't mine its own Caldari ice. They'll have to trade. Likewise, the CFC will have to go to market for Minmatar and Amarr ice, and so on.

As soon as ice prices rise high enough to make it worth getting out a Mack instead of an anom farming ship, then it will happen.

"Just remember later that I warned against any change to jump ranges or fatigue. You earned whats coming."

Grath Telkin, 11.10.2016
Tau Cabalander
Retirement Retreat
Working Stiffs
#140 - 2013-04-30 23:29:15 UTC  |  Edited by: Tau Cabalander
I've not seen it mentioned yet, but hisec spawns will have 2500 units of racial ice.

https://twitter.com/CCP_Fozzie/status/329251984098070528