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Eclipse Warning
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X074
Ministry of War
Amarr Empire
#1 - 2013-04-30 20:14:29 UTC
A couple of weeks ago, my account was banned for using a "script" on the client. Now I've never modified my client, nor used any sort of botting software... So I was a bit confused, and petitioned the ban. After countless petitions later, and having my plea's shunned, a fellow corpmate suggested that I had some sort of program on my computer that could have flagged my account as a bot.

Apparently the target of this ban wave was cheaters using modified clients. So I started looking for anything on my computer, that could possibly have anything to do with this, and this is what I came up with:

I would occasionally run Eclipse while playing Eve. I'm no expert in Python (I've only just began messing with it as I'm trying to get into video game development) but this seems to be the only thing I can come up with that had anything to do with this situation.

GMs are refusing to look into this, and I may be completely wrong.... but I just thought I would post this here to warn anyone using Eclipse (or anything similar) to be careful while playing Eve
Some Rando
University of Caille
Gallente Federation
#2 - 2013-04-30 20:25:22 UTC
I find it hard to believe that CCP would ban someone based on the existence of a common IDE on their computer.

CCP has no sense of humour.
Mr Epeen
It's All About Me
#3 - 2013-04-30 20:33:31 UTC
CCP is getting a lot better at weeding out false positives, but they still happen occasionally.

The problem I've had with them is that they will not actually tell you what set off their alarm bells on your own computer. It's up to you to figure it out for yourself and that can be a real pain. I contested a missing ship one time and they told me I'd sold it but wouldn't link me to the sale Shocked

Escalate and hope you get a helpful and knowledgeable GM to work through it.

Mr Epeen Cool
X074
Ministry of War
Amarr Empire
#4 - 2013-04-30 20:43:40 UTC
Mr Epeen wrote:
CCP is getting a lot better at weeding out false positives, but they still happen occasionally.

The problem I've had with them is that they will not actually tell you what set off their alarm bells on your own computer. It's up to you to figure it out for yourself and that can be a real pain. I contested a missing ship one time and they told me I'd sold it but wouldn't link me to the sale Shocked

Escalate and hope you get a helpful and knowledgeable GM to work through it.

Mr Epeen Cool

I've already escalated it, and the response was " we are fully confident in the security team"

They won't budge, and they may be justified in doing so... I figured Eclipse was a pretty common IDE, which is why I wanted to make sure this got out there.

As I said, I may be completely wrong... But I don't know what else would have caused it. (Unless it was just a screwup on CCP's side, but they seem confident that their data is correct)
Thor Kerrigan
Guardians of Asceticism
#5 - 2013-04-30 20:46:08 UTC
I predict seeing an interesting point OP forgot to mention initially that will change his whole argument. Something along the lines of "well yeah, I did purchase this toon on ebay but that's not the point; it says I got banned for botting".
Fractal Muse
Sebiestor Tribe
Minmatar Republic
#6 - 2013-04-30 20:50:08 UTC
X074 wrote:

GMs are refusing to look into this, and I may be completely wrong.... but I just thought I would post this here to warn anyone using Eclipse (or anything similar) to be careful while playing Eve

Is it possible that you were using a market "assistant" at the time or previously?

You know, one of those "tools" that allows you update orders in an automated.. err.. I mean "semi"-automated manner?
Unsuccessful At Everything
The Troll Bridge
#7 - 2013-04-30 20:52:46 UTC  |  Edited by: Unsuccessful At Everything
OP gets caught modifying client and is turned down for appeal by GMs, goes to GD to plead case with phony story.

Also, with name like X074, who would even begin thinking that was a bot?

Since the cessation of their usefulness is imminent, may I appropriate your belongings?
Vera Algaert
Republic University
Minmatar Republic
#8 - 2013-04-30 20:59:29 UTC
CCP claims they don't check anything outside the client's own memory space (although the EULA allows them to do so).

So the mere presence of dev tools shouldn't get you into trouble. However, if you tried attaching a debugger to the eve process for some reason you may (will very likely) have triggered red flags.

.
X074
Ministry of War
Amarr Empire
#9 - 2013-04-30 21:06:41 UTC
Unsuccessful At Everything wrote:
OP gets caught modifying client and is turned down for appeal by GMs, goes to GD to plead case with phony story.

Also, with name like X074, who would even begin thinking that was a bot?

Yes, because I'm posting on the forums with a banned character... genius.

GMs have already made it clear that I'm not getting unbanned early, and I really don't care. I've already unsubbed and don't plan on coming back for awhile. I just thought I might do some good by posting a warning to Eclipse users.

Also, about attaching a debugger to the Eve process: I'm pretty sure I didn't do that... Seems like thats something that would be hard to do on accident P
Ripblade Falconpunch
Deep Core Mining Inc.
Caldari State
#10 - 2013-04-30 21:14:27 UTC
X074 wrote:
Unsuccessful At Everything wrote:
OP gets caught modifying client and is turned down for appeal by GMs, goes to GD to plead case with phony story.

Also, with name like X074, who would even begin thinking that was a bot?

Yes, because I'm posting on the forums with a banned character... genius.

GMs have already made it clear that I'm not getting unbanned early, and I really don't care. I've already unsubbed and don't plan on coming back for awhile. I just thought I might do some good by posting a warning to Eclipse users.

Also, about attaching a debugger to the Eve process: I'm pretty sure I didn't do that... Seems like thats something that would be hard to do on accident P


You could try emailing security@ccpgames.com directly if you honestly didn't do anything wrong. (Not sure if that's the correct email address, doublecheck it)
Ranger 1
Ranger Corp
Vae. Victis.
#11 - 2013-04-30 21:35:00 UTC
Ripblade Falconpunch wrote:
X074 wrote:
Unsuccessful At Everything wrote:
OP gets caught modifying client and is turned down for appeal by GMs, goes to GD to plead case with phony story.

Also, with name like X074, who would even begin thinking that was a bot?

Yes, because I'm posting on the forums with a banned character... genius.

GMs have already made it clear that I'm not getting unbanned early, and I really don't care. I've already unsubbed and don't plan on coming back for awhile. I just thought I might do some good by posting a warning to Eclipse users.

Also, about attaching a debugger to the Eve process: I'm pretty sure I didn't do that... Seems like thats something that would be hard to do on accident P


You could try emailing security@ccpgames.com directly if you honestly didn't do anything wrong. (Not sure if that's the correct email address, doublecheck it)

Probably your best option.

However, as was pointed out above, unless it was interacting with the EvE client it has nothing to do with other software on your computer.

Nice try though. Smile

View the latest EVE Online developments and other game related news and gameplay by visiting Ranger 1 Presents: Virtual Realms.
Azurae
Doomheim
#12 - 2013-04-30 21:43:08 UTC
ccp doesnt look for other processes or stuff on your computer. everything they do to check for botters/client modification stays within the eve process. So if you got banned it wasnt because you had some software installed but because you ran software to interact with the eve process and whatever that software did wasnt allowed.

tbh since you already said you ran a script and you didnt specify what it did or what it was for, i'm pretty confident that you were doing something forbidden and you are not a false positive.
X074
Ministry of War
Amarr Empire
#13 - 2013-04-30 21:48:07 UTC
Ripblade Falconpunch wrote:
X074 wrote:
Unsuccessful At Everything wrote:
OP gets caught modifying client and is turned down for appeal by GMs, goes to GD to plead case with phony story.

Also, with name like X074, who would even begin thinking that was a bot?

Yes, because I'm posting on the forums with a banned character... genius.

GMs have already made it clear that I'm not getting unbanned early, and I really don't care. I've already unsubbed and don't plan on coming back for awhile. I just thought I might do some good by posting a warning to Eclipse users.

Also, about attaching a debugger to the Eve process: I'm pretty sure I didn't do that... Seems like thats something that would be hard to do on accident P


You could try emailing security@ccpgames.com directly if you honestly didn't do anything wrong. (Not sure if that's the correct email address, doublecheck it)

I emailed support@ccpgames.com (I think was the address) but they had some sort of technical difficulty, and replied back telling me to put my email in a petition so they could read it. I haven't heard back on that petition yet. Will keep this updated if they find anything amazing P
Thomas Builder
Center for Advanced Studies
Gallente Federation
#14 - 2013-04-30 22:08:19 UTC
X074 wrote:
Also, about attaching a debugger to the Eve process: I'm pretty sure I didn't do that... Seems like thats something that would be hard to do on accident P

Actually it's pretty easy to do on accident. Eclipse comes with a debugger that can be attached to other processes. While attaching it to the program you want to debug, you misclick and attach it to Eve.

And even if you didn't attach it to Eve, you might have started debugging a library that is also used by Eve, which might have triggered the flag. Or there is a bug in the debugger. (I remember a very annoying bug in the MS Studio debugger that occasionally would start to debug parts of the OS, putting my computer to a grinding halt.)

Running a debugger while running Eve might be a bad idea. But then, these "I didn't do anything" threads are usually fake.
X074
Ministry of War
Amarr Empire
#15 - 2013-04-30 23:34:37 UTC
Thomas Builder wrote:
X074 wrote:
Also, about attaching a debugger to the Eve process: I'm pretty sure I didn't do that... Seems like thats something that would be hard to do on accident P

Actually it's pretty easy to do on accident. Eclipse comes with a debugger that can be attached to other processes. While attaching it to the program you want to debug, you misclick and attach it to Eve.

And even if you didn't attach it to Eve, you might have started debugging a library that is also used by Eve, which might have triggered the flag. Or there is a bug in the debugger. (I remember a very annoying bug in the MS Studio debugger that occasionally would start to debug parts of the OS, putting my computer to a grinding halt.)

Running a debugger while running Eve might be a bad idea. But then, these "I didn't do anything" threads are usually fake.

I didn't really start this thread with the intent of "I didn't do anything" and I couldn't care less about who here believes me.

But this is starting to look more and more like the culprit to me... but then again, I'm still pretty new to Eclipse
Arronicus
State War Academy
Caldari State
#16 - 2013-04-30 23:49:16 UTC
X074 wrote:

I've already escalated it, and the response was " we are fully confident in the security team"


It's pretty easy for the security team to have a perfect record, when there is no oversight, and they won't admit to making a mistake or investigating it.
Kaliska Asuful
Sebiestor Tribe
Minmatar Republic
#17 - 2013-05-01 00:00:08 UTC  |  Edited by: Kaliska Asuful
Tbh, remove Eclipse from your HDD. This is not the first game (nor likely, to be the last) which has tripped a false neg. Seeing as adaptive Eclipse is, it's no wonder why it trips some wires. Just ditch it and continue with your usual Java bits without the hastle of being locked from game to game.

Edit: Eclipse is more trouble than it's worth. Ditch it the second you get the chance
X074
Ministry of War
Amarr Empire
#18 - 2013-05-01 00:35:37 UTC
Kaliska Asuful wrote:
Tbh, remove Eclipse from your HDD. This is not the first game (nor likely, to be the last) which has tripped a false neg. Seeing as adaptive Eclipse is, it's no wonder why it trips some wires. Just ditch it and continue with your usual Java bits without the hastle of being locked from game to game.

Edit: Eclipse is more trouble than it's worth. Ditch it the second you get the chance

Surely it wouldn't cause issues from just being installed... shouldn't I only really have to worry about actually running it while other games are running?
FluffyDice
Kronos Research
#19 - 2013-05-01 01:31:17 UTC
You got caught OP. Just give it up.
Doc Fury
Furious Enterprises
#20 - 2013-05-01 01:43:46 UTC  |  Edited by: Doc Fury
Kaliska Asuful wrote:
Tbh, remove Eclipse from your HDD. This is not the first game (nor likely, to be the last) which has tripped a false neg. Seeing as adaptive Eclipse is, it's no wonder why it trips some wires. Just ditch it and continue with your usual Java bits without the hastle of being locked from game to game.

Edit: Eclipse is more trouble than it's worth. Ditch it the second you get the chance


I've been using Eclipse on the same computer as EVE for about the last 5 years at least. It runs 24x7x365. I do not do any Python Dev however.

TBH Eclipse is the Gordian Knot of IDEs but once you learn and tweak it, it will do about anything.

☼

There's a million angry citizens looking down their tubes..at me.
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