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A stop against Corp Griefing
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Freikinstien
Taladi Federation
Wormageddon
#1 - 2013-04-30 20:08:58 UTC
Ok so I was running a corp for a little bit, everything going well and running smoothly. But when the corp went quite, someone came online, asked a corp member to help him move some stuff, and held his freighter for ransom. And apparently, half my members didn't even know that corp members could attack each other without CONCORD getting involved.
I feel that Corp Griefing is lame, and that normal rules should apply, even if your corp mates.
I even decided to get my main to stop running a corp, give it to my alt and create an external corp with only me in it. Thats how pathetic I feel it is, when your always exposing billions of isk of ship, to people that won't even have to lose their own ship to kill you.
People say that EVE is all about trust, and is something to earn. But I feel that you can "never" fully trust anyone. I feel that it would be a much funner game, if corps were safe and you don't have to worry about everyone that's in it.
Danni stark
#2 - 2013-04-30 20:12:44 UTC
since this is features and ideas, i have an idea to put to you.

don't accept random corp invites, actually speak to the players, ask for an api, and don't trust them for **** until they've proven themselves.
ccp can't legislate for stupid corp recruitment.

Ice Mining Skill Plan.
Mole Guy
Bob's Bait and Tackle
#3 - 2013-04-30 20:18:01 UTC
what about those who use our own alts to web our freighters into warp?
what about those of us practice pvp on corpies so we can test a ship fit?
or about us who have carriers who assign fighters/drones to hit our corpies so they can test a particular tank setup?

what about us trainers who hit our corpies at random to keep them on their toes and ready for pvp "at a moments notice?"


altho i can respect your idea and request, it would have far worse affects on others who enjoy a little flexibility in their corps.

1/2 of eve relies on the things i pointed out in 1 way or another.

know your members. and seek revenge against em...war deck em until no one wants them in corp.
Extrokold Thiesant
Decaf Academy
#4 - 2013-04-30 20:25:11 UTC
How about have a setting for the CEO to turn Awoxing on or off

That way corps that like it can keep it and corps that don't like it can remove it to be safer.

The same could also be done for Wars, have a setting that the CEO can turn on to allow war decs and you're allowed to declare war too, and a setting to turn it off.

Have it so that you're only allow to change the setting once every two weeks and it takes one day or more for the setting to take into effect.
Ruze
Next Stage Initiative
#5 - 2013-04-30 20:25:35 UTC
Freikinstien wrote:
Ok so I was running a corp for a little bit, everything going well and running smoothly. But when the corp went quite, someone came online, asked a corp member to help him move some stuff, and held his freighter for ransom. And apparently, half my members didn't even know that corp members could attack each other without CONCORD getting involved.
I feel that Corp Griefing is lame, and that normal rules should apply, even if your corp mates.
I even decided to get my main to stop running a corp, give it to my alt and create an external corp with only me in it. Thats how pathetic I feel it is, when your always exposing billions of isk of ship, to people that won't even have to lose their own ship to kill you.
People say that EVE is all about trust, and is something to earn. But I feel that you can "never" fully trust anyone. I feel that it would be a much funner game, if corps were safe and you don't have to worry about everyone that's in it.


The argument against this is always the same: EvE has built it's reputation as a game company on a cold harsh universe. Changing this may seem small, but it's one step more down a road that betrays what the game was founded on, and what the majority of it's long-held playerbase joined for.

The game might be better for you, but it would be worse for me. Luckily for me, if CCP were after subscriptions over player loyalty they could switch at any time.

If I wanted a tame space game, I've got options and I'd go to them. Why do you wish to change what others enjoy when every other space game out there has the safety you want?

Are you that selfish?

If you're driven to threaten others with harm or violence because of what they do in game, you can't separate fantasy from reality. That "griefer/thief" is probably more sane than you are. How screwed up is that?
Ruze
Next Stage Initiative
#6 - 2013-04-30 20:27:54 UTC
Extrokold Thiesant wrote:
How about have a setting for the CEO to turn Awoxing on or off

That way corps that like it can keep it and corps that don't like it can remove it to be safer.

The same could also be done for Wars, have a setting that the CEO can turn on to allow war decs and you're allowed to declare war too, and a setting to turn it off.

Have it so that you're only allow to change the setting once every two weeks and it takes one day or more for the setting to take into effect.


If you were to turn off wars, it's only fair that the group should not be allowed to make market transactions or participate in any industry related issues.

Or do you believe that every war in eve is just for pvp's sake? That an industry corp like the one I'm in doesn't hire mercenaries to declare wars on other corps in the same systems as us, in order so that we can more accurately and effectively control the market?

If you're driven to threaten others with harm or violence because of what they do in game, you can't separate fantasy from reality. That "griefer/thief" is probably more sane than you are. How screwed up is that?
Extrokold Thiesant
Decaf Academy
#7 - 2013-04-30 20:31:05 UTC
Ruze wrote:
Freikinstien wrote:
Ok so I was running a corp for a little bit, everything going well and running smoothly. But when the corp went quite, someone came online, asked a corp member to help him move some stuff, and held his freighter for ransom. And apparently, half my members didn't even know that corp members could attack each other without CONCORD getting involved.
I feel that Corp Griefing is lame, and that normal rules should apply, even if your corp mates.
I even decided to get my main to stop running a corp, give it to my alt and create an external corp with only me in it. Thats how pathetic I feel it is, when your always exposing billions of isk of ship, to people that won't even have to lose their own ship to kill you.
People say that EVE is all about trust, and is something to earn. But I feel that you can "never" fully trust anyone. I feel that it would be a much funner game, if corps were safe and you don't have to worry about everyone that's in it.


The argument against this is always the same: EvE has built it's reputation as a game company on a cold harsh universe. Changing this may seem small, but it's one step more down a road that betrays what the game was founded on, and what the majority of it's long-held playerbase joined for.

The game might be better for you, but it would be worse for me. Luckily for me, if CCP were after subscriptions over player loyalty they could switch at any time.

If I wanted a tame space game, I've got options and I'd go to them. Why do you wish to change what others enjoy when every other space game out there has the safety you want?

Are you that selfish?



The problem is that Awoxing effects Newbie and Industrial corps more than NullSec vets and PVP corps do. Awoxing is on the rise because people find it fun to blast people who don't know any better and can't defend themselves. All that is requested is that Awoxing follows the same Concord laws in highsec that anyone not in the corp must follow.

New corps are basically not able to use the recruitment channel because they will be Awoxed and War Dec'd to death by griefers, Goons don't have this problem as a newbie mining corp since there is no Concord in null and they're all flying cheap PVP ships.
Ruze
Next Stage Initiative
#8 - 2013-04-30 20:34:41 UTC
Extrokold Thiesant wrote:
Ruze wrote:
Freikinstien wrote:
Ok so I was running a corp for a little bit, everything going well and running smoothly. But when the corp went quite, someone came online, asked a corp member to help him move some stuff, and held his freighter for ransom. And apparently, half my members didn't even know that corp members could attack each other without CONCORD getting involved.
I feel that Corp Griefing is lame, and that normal rules should apply, even if your corp mates.
I even decided to get my main to stop running a corp, give it to my alt and create an external corp with only me in it. Thats how pathetic I feel it is, when your always exposing billions of isk of ship, to people that won't even have to lose their own ship to kill you.
People say that EVE is all about trust, and is something to earn. But I feel that you can "never" fully trust anyone. I feel that it would be a much funner game, if corps were safe and you don't have to worry about everyone that's in it.


The argument against this is always the same: EvE has built it's reputation as a game company on a cold harsh universe. Changing this may seem small, but it's one step more down a road that betrays what the game was founded on, and what the majority of it's long-held playerbase joined for.

The game might be better for you, but it would be worse for me. Luckily for me, if CCP were after subscriptions over player loyalty they could switch at any time.

If I wanted a tame space game, I've got options and I'd go to them. Why do you wish to change what others enjoy when every other space game out there has the safety you want?

Are you that selfish?



The problem is that Awoxing effects Newbie and Industrial corps more than NullSec vets and PVP corps do. Awoxing is on the rise because people find it fun to blast people who don't know any better and can't defend themselves. All that is requested is that Awoxing follows the same Concord laws in highsec that anyone not in the corp must follow.

New corps are basically not able to use the recruitment channel because they will be Awoxed and War Dec'd to death by griefers, Goons don't have this problem as a newbie mining corp since there is no Concord in null and they're all flying cheap PVP ships.


Do you know why it affects new and industry corps more than older corporations?

You are looking square at the answer to the problem. The reason older corps aren't affected, is they are not ignorant. They go out of their way to make sure to vett and screen every applicant.

I will put money that every one of those old corps has had an awoxer or three. Every one has been stolen from at some point. And if they haven't, the corp the directors came from was.

It's called learning experiences. Enjoy the experience, and learn from it.

Those newbie corporations that have this happen to them learn, or die out. But you cannot prove that the player loss of their leaving the game is hurting EvE. In fact, I can show you plenty of examples of those players coming back and becoming great.

If you're driven to threaten others with harm or violence because of what they do in game, you can't separate fantasy from reality. That "griefer/thief" is probably more sane than you are. How screwed up is that?
Extrokold Thiesant
Decaf Academy
#9 - 2013-04-30 20:34:59 UTC
Ruze wrote:


If you were to turn off wars, it's only fair that the group should not be allowed to make market transactions or participate in any industry related issues.

Or do you believe that every war in eve is just for pvp's sake? That an industry corp like the one I'm in doesn't hire mercenaries to declare wars on other corps in the same systems as us, in order so that we can more accurately and effectively control the market?


With the rise of mining in nullsec you should go do that there, not bullying smaller corps and newer players out of the market.
sabre906
The Scope
Gallente Federation
#10 - 2013-04-30 20:37:08 UTC
This cannot be fixed because 1337 pvpers tell you carebears and noobs to htfu.

These same 1337 pvpers then whine about 1 man corps and npc corps, thus CCP adds tax for noobs.

See? This is why we cannot have nice things here in Eve.Roll
Extrokold Thiesant
Decaf Academy
#11 - 2013-04-30 20:38:17 UTC
Ruze wrote:

Do you know why it affects new and industry corps more than older corporations?

You are looking square at the answer to the problem. The reason older corps aren't affected, is they are not ignorant. They go out of their way to make sure to vett and screen every applicant.

I will put money that every one of those old corps has had an awoxer or three. Every one has been stolen from at some point. And if they haven't, the corp the directors came from was.

It's called learning experiences. Enjoy the experience, and learn from it.

Those newbie corporations that have this happen to them learn, or die out. But you cannot prove that the player loss of their leaving the game is hurting EvE. In fact, I can show you plenty of examples of those players coming back and becoming great.


Its not hurting vets as much as its hurting new players. But all players and quit because of bullshit griefing like this is hurting Eve. Let Eve be a sandbox game where people can learn and grow and do whatever they want to do, not a sandbox where the older kids pick on the younger ones.
Ruze
Next Stage Initiative
#12 - 2013-04-30 20:40:37 UTC
Extrokold Thiesant wrote:
Ruze wrote:


If you were to turn off wars, it's only fair that the group should not be allowed to make market transactions or participate in any industry related issues.

Or do you believe that every war in eve is just for pvp's sake? That an industry corp like the one I'm in doesn't hire mercenaries to declare wars on other corps in the same systems as us, in order so that we can more accurately and effectively control the market?


With the rise of mining in nullsec you should go do that there, not bullying smaller corps and newer players out of the market.


My corp has 14 members, half of which are alts. If I wanted nulsecs market, I'd go to nulsec. I'm a casual player who understands that EvE is about PvP. I've been in the game for years. I've lost ships, been ganked (less than a month ago), and been a new player. I'm what I am now because I adapted, I overcame the odds, and I recognized EvE to be a game where you are not promised to succeed, coddled and cuddled like a child.

You want to be safe? Make yourself safe. Hisec and concord are for those of us who just don't have the time to join huge nulsec corps and maintain those types of hours. It's not to avoid pvp.

I welcome the chance to 'bully' my opponents out of my market. And I sometimes get bullied. But my protection is my responsibility.

Responsibility being a key word there. Are you responsible for your own protection and security? Or do you assume that NPC's should do it cause you don't have the want to take the extra step, even in space where that extra step is very small for people who legitimately don't have time.

If you're driven to threaten others with harm or violence because of what they do in game, you can't separate fantasy from reality. That "griefer/thief" is probably more sane than you are. How screwed up is that?
Ruze
Next Stage Initiative
#13 - 2013-04-30 20:44:25 UTC
Extrokold Thiesant wrote:
Ruze wrote:

Do you know why it affects new and industry corps more than older corporations?

You are looking square at the answer to the problem. The reason older corps aren't affected, is they are not ignorant. They go out of their way to make sure to vett and screen every applicant.

I will put money that every one of those old corps has had an awoxer or three. Every one has been stolen from at some point. And if they haven't, the corp the directors came from was.

It's called learning experiences. Enjoy the experience, and learn from it.

Those newbie corporations that have this happen to them learn, or die out. But you cannot prove that the player loss of their leaving the game is hurting EvE. In fact, I can show you plenty of examples of those players coming back and becoming great.


Its not hurting vets as much as its hurting new players. But all players and quit because of bullshit griefing like this is hurting Eve. Let Eve be a sandbox game where people can learn and grow and do whatever they want to do, not a sandbox where the older kids pick on the younger ones.


EvE is a sandbox. You are free to do what you want to do.

In fact, the op is proposing to take more options out of that sandbox. To restrict players from doing what they want to do. To take away freedom.

Is it just me, or does that not sound counterproductive to your stated cause?

I mean, you can VERY easily avoid an awoxer. Don't bring in new players you don't know.

And you can even avoid war, though I hate to see it used. Join an NPC corp or even go to w-space (who declares war in w-space?).

Hell, all the items you request are there. Last time I was ganked (March), it was by eight day old players in tutorial mission destroyers.

Who's the victim there? New or old?

If you're driven to threaten others with harm or violence because of what they do in game, you can't separate fantasy from reality. That "griefer/thief" is probably more sane than you are. How screwed up is that?
Danni stark
#14 - 2013-04-30 20:52:52 UTC
Extrokold Thiesant wrote:
How about have a setting for the CEO to turn Awoxing on or off

That way corps that like it can keep it and corps that don't like it can remove it to be safer.

The same could also be done for Wars, have a setting that the CEO can turn on to allow war decs and you're allowed to declare war too, and a setting to turn it off.

Have it so that you're only allow to change the setting once every two weeks and it takes one day or more for the setting to take into effect.


no, because nobody would ever turn it on. you're still suggesting removing it.

stop being lazy with your recruitment.

Ice Mining Skill Plan.
Extrokold Thiesant
Decaf Academy
#15 - 2013-04-30 21:05:11 UTC
Danni stark wrote:
Extrokold Thiesant wrote:
How about have a setting for the CEO to turn Awoxing on or off

That way corps that like it can keep it and corps that don't like it can remove it to be safer.

The same could also be done for Wars, have a setting that the CEO can turn on to allow war decs and you're allowed to declare war too, and a setting to turn it off.

Have it so that you're only allow to change the setting once every two weeks and it takes one day or more for the setting to take into effect.


no, because nobody would ever turn it on. you're still suggesting removing it.

stop being lazy with your recruitment.



It was a proposal in response to:

Quote:
what about those who use our own alts to web our freighters into warp?
what about those of us practice pvp on corpies so we can test a ship fit?
or about us who have carriers who assign fighters/drones to hit our corpies so they can test a particular tank setup?
what about us trainers who hit our corpies at random to keep them on their toes and ready for pvp "at a moments notice?"
Danika Princip
GoonWaffe
Goonswarm Federation
#16 - 2013-04-30 21:07:04 UTC
Extrokold Thiesant wrote:


The problem is that Awoxing effects Newbie and Industrial corps more than NullSec vets and PVP corps do. Awoxing is on the rise because people find it fun to blast people who don't know any better and can't defend themselves. All that is requested is that Awoxing follows the same Concord laws in highsec that anyone not in the corp must follow.

New corps are basically not able to use the recruitment channel because they will be Awoxed and War Dec'd to death by griefers, Goons don't have this problem as a newbie mining corp since there is no Concord in null and they're all flying cheap PVP ships.



Do you know why it's called Awoxing?

I'll give you a clue: That was the name of the nullsec guy who first did it. It happens in null all the time, we just tend not to cry about it on the forums as much as you guys do.

Also, did you know one of the goons fleet doctrines is faction battleships? I wouldn't call a 400+ million ISK hull a cheap PVP ship, would you?

Nor would I call the numerous carriers, macharials and vindicators dying to awoxers every month cheap ships.

Neither aowxing nor wardeccing is griefing.

Maybe you just shouldn't recruit literally anyone who applies? :)
Extrokold Thiesant
Decaf Academy
#17 - 2013-04-30 21:08:38 UTC
Quote:

no, because nobody would ever turn it on. you're still suggesting removing it.

stop being lazy with your recruitment.


Yes, I do think that awoxing in the form that you're able to attack other corp member in highsec without getting concorded should be removed.

It is fair to say that, but I'm just responding that new corps don't know better and griefing drives newb players out of the game.
Extrokold Thiesant
Decaf Academy
#18 - 2013-04-30 21:46:30 UTC  |  Edited by: Extrokold Thiesant
Quote:
Neither aowxing nor wardeccing is griefing.


Here is a random discussion about someone getting into awoxing:

Quote:
What's a good way to get a friend interested in the more unsavory side of EvE? Is it feasible to just find a carebear corp and start AWOXing in 3-day Catalyst pilots?


Quote:
Sure. Read Monk's guide for the explanation, and try to harvest tears.


"A griefer is a player in a multiplayer video game who deliberately irritates and harasses other players within the game"

What part of harvest tears is not other than sole purpose of irritating and harassing other players?
Danni stark
#19 - 2013-04-30 21:50:46 UTC
Extrokold Thiesant wrote:
Danni stark wrote:
Extrokold Thiesant wrote:
How about have a setting for the CEO to turn Awoxing on or off

That way corps that like it can keep it and corps that don't like it can remove it to be safer.

The same could also be done for Wars, have a setting that the CEO can turn on to allow war decs and you're allowed to declare war too, and a setting to turn it off.

Have it so that you're only allow to change the setting once every two weeks and it takes one day or more for the setting to take into effect.


no, because nobody would ever turn it on. you're still suggesting removing it.

stop being lazy with your recruitment.



It was a proposal in response to:

Quote:
what about those who use our own alts to web our freighters into warp?
what about those of us practice pvp on corpies so we can test a ship fit?
or about us who have carriers who assign fighters/drones to hit our corpies so they can test a particular tank setup?
what about us trainers who hit our corpies at random to keep them on their toes and ready for pvp "at a moments notice?"


no, the answer to that proposal is: dueling

Ice Mining Skill Plan.
Danika Princip
GoonWaffe
Goonswarm Federation
#20 - 2013-04-30 22:09:42 UTC
Extrokold Thiesant wrote:
Quote:
Neither aowxing nor wardeccing is griefing.


Here is a random discussion about someone getting into awoxing:

Quote:
What's a good way to get a friend interested in the more unsavory side of EvE? Is it feasible to just find a carebear corp and start AWOXing in 3-day Catalyst pilots?


Quote:
Sure. Read Monk's guide for the explanation, and try to harvest tears.


"A griefer is a player in a multiplayer video game who deliberately irritates and harasses other players within the game"

What part of harvest tears is not other than sole purpose of irritating and harassing other players?



By your logic, probably 90% of the PVP players in this game are griefers.

by mine, a griefer is someone who actually griefs. IE targets a person or corp and does nothing but pick on them in an attempt to drive them out of the game. A single awoxing spree through your corp is not griefing, it's just how that guy plays the game. If he came back again and again on alts after you kicked and banned him and just kept it up until you quit, that'd be griefing.

Same with wardecs. They're just a way to play the game. If you took all the non consensual PVP out of EVE, you'd kill the game almost instantly.
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