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Ice prices are too damn high!

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Some Rando
University of Caille
Gallente Federation
#81 - 2013-04-30 18:57:13 UTC  |  Edited by: Some Rando
Xython wrote:
About a year ago CCP Soundwave openly was talking about making Ice Nullsec only. I'm kinda disappointed that this seems to have been compromised down to "Ice will be a bit scarce if people don't mine a little bit in Null." But then again, we haven't seen how this change will affect things.

The cycle time reduction will probably make ice mining slightly more appealing in "doughnut" null-sec; whether the ice is the correct type will determine whether it's worthwhile. If the "crunch" is enough do you think you'd end up with standards based around the local ice?

Xython wrote:
Hey, who knows, maybe Concord won't show up to Ice Anoms in highsec, or will be a bit delayed.

Wouldn't that be nice.

CCP has no sense of humour.
Captain Tardbar
Deep Core Mining Inc.
Caldari State
#82 - 2013-04-30 19:09:49 UTC
Shepard Wong Ogeko wrote:
Haulie Berry wrote:

...there will be ice mining bots still...



Here is the problem with ice mining bots post Odyssey; The bots won't be able to make consistent isk/hr non-stop. That is why you would run a bot, because a bot can play eve constantly, and one expects the bot to make isk constantly.

What is the point of running a bot that is going to sit in a station and make no isk for hours at a time, only undocking to verify the ice anom hasn't respawned yet. And this bot will have to compete with other players because the ice anoms aren't going to be effectively limitless like current ice belts. So you can't just calculate that your bot will mine exactly X ice/hr, because even if human players aren't spamming the scan button to jump into an ice anom as soon as it spawns, players will eventually show up and take some ice for them selves.




I don't know if that is how its going to be. I mean think about it. Would you sit around waiting several hours for a resource to spawn?

If I was even by myself in null sec for no one else to compete with, am I going to sit around several hours waiting for the belt to repopulate? No that is just dumb and a waste of time.

If that is going to be the way it is, then people will log in first thing, check for an ice belt, and if they don't see one, then they are just going to quit icemining. I mean you could do regular mining in the mean time, but often the best places to mine are in the same system as the ice.

Would you seriously think that people are going to warp back to check every 20 minutes to see if the ice belt spawned?

No, it would be easier to hunt regular roids.

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Shepard Wong Ogeko
Native Freshfood
Minmatar Republic
#83 - 2013-04-30 19:19:32 UTC
Captain Tardbar wrote:

I don't know if that is how its going to be. I mean think about it. Would you sit around waiting several hours for a resource to spawn?



I would go do something else. But I'm not a bot.

If actual players in highsec are doing nothing while waiting for ice anoms, then they are as dumb as a bot. They can go mine ore, or do missions, or do some hauling, or play the markets, or do some planetary interaction. It is their choice to paint themselves into the a corner of "I mine ice and only ice".
Sentamon
Imperial Academy
Amarr Empire
#84 - 2013-04-30 19:22:06 UTC
Prices will double again, perhaps tripple when the patch hits.

Fun times.

~ Professional Forum Alt  ~
Captain Tardbar
Deep Core Mining Inc.
Caldari State
#85 - 2013-04-30 19:25:01 UTC
Shepard Wong Ogeko wrote:
Captain Tardbar wrote:

I don't know if that is how its going to be. I mean think about it. Would you sit around waiting several hours for a resource to spawn?



I would go do something else. But I'm not a bot.

If actual players in highsec are doing nothing while waiting for ice anoms, then they are as dumb as a bot. They can go mine ore, or do missions, or do some hauling, or play the markets, or do some planetary interaction. It is their choice to paint themselves into the a corner of "I mine ice and only ice".



Well my point is... If you are doing something more profitable anyways, why bother checking every 20 minutes to see if that less profitable resource is available?

I mean the reason people don't ore mine instead of ice mine is because ice mining is easy and consistant even though regular mining was about 2-3 times more profitable (still is even after the price buff). So if you find yourself with no ice belt to mine and you are regular mining anyways, I doubt you are going to stop every 20 minutes to check to see if you can go back to ice mining.

Therefore people will just quit the profession all together.

Looking to talk on VOIP with other EVE players? Are you new and need help with EVE (welfare) or looking for advice? Looking for adversarial debate with angry people?

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DarthNefarius
Minmatar Heavy Industries
#86 - 2013-04-30 19:25:53 UTC  |  Edited by: DarthNefarius
Xython wrote:

Hey, who knows, maybe Concord won't show up to Ice Anoms in highsec, or will be a bit delayed. Find a bot -- deal with it yourself.


Correct me if I'm wrong but all ice belts are in 0.5 and lower space, so Concord already is a bit delayed.
An' then Chicken@little.com, he come scramblin outta the    Terminal room screaming "The system's crashing! The system's    crashing!" -Uncle RAMus, 'Tales for Cyberpsychotic Children'
Krell Kroenen
The Devil's Shadow
#87 - 2013-04-30 19:26:01 UTC
Danni stark wrote:
De'Veldrin wrote:
Implying Implications wrote:
Buy a Retriever and get mining ganked.


FYP.


i'm convinced miner gankers are like the boogie man.

i've never seen one.
it's a story to scare small children.


Well it's been a while with my main but I guess you could say I have role played being the boogie man a few times. Twisted But only against botters I swear.. Blink
Captain Tardbar
Deep Core Mining Inc.
Caldari State
#88 - 2013-04-30 19:29:31 UTC
DarthNefarius wrote:
Xython wrote:

Hey, who knows, maybe Concord won't show up to Ice Anoms in highsec, or will be a bit delayed. Find a bot -- deal with it yourself.


Correct me if I'm wrong but all ice belts are in 0.5 and lower space, so Concord already is a bit delayed.


No. Currently there are some ice belts in 0.7 systems.

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Omnathious Deninard
University of Caille
Gallente Federation
#89 - 2013-04-30 19:33:07 UTC
Calathorn Virpio wrote:
CCP Fozzie wrote:
Haulie Berry wrote:
CCP Fozzie wrote:
None ofthe Above wrote:

The change in the mechanic makes a bit of sense to me, but this part about only spawning enough in high sec to meet 80% of high sec's demand has left me scratching my shiny head.


You're reading it wrong. Highsec will only spawn enough ice to meet 80% of the whole universe's demand. It will spawn roughly 800% of what it needs to meet Highsec's demand.


Just for funsies, currently what percentage of the universe's ice consumption is sourced from high sec?


Currently 98.4% of all isotope ice is mined in highsec.

While highsec uses less than 15% of the isotopes in EVE.



so only an 18.4% reduction? i do believe speculation is the reason for the price hike then

That is assuming the sites are cleared, if say a person were to mine out all but 1 or 2 units of ice then move on to the next ice anomaly it would prevent a new ice anomaly from being generated creating a shortage in ice over a period of time.

If you don't follow the rules, neither will I.
Captain Tardbar
Deep Core Mining Inc.
Caldari State
#90 - 2013-04-30 19:42:13 UTC
What do you know? Someone put up a buy order at 266K at Jita and anything selling for less than 277K has been bought out.

I'm no finacial Nostradamus, but I think its almost safe to say by tomorrow ice prices will have tripled.

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Shepard Wong Ogeko
Native Freshfood
Minmatar Republic
#91 - 2013-04-30 19:55:54 UTC
Captain Tardbar wrote:

Therefore people will just quit the profession all together.


If enough people quit ice mining, the supply will shrink. When the supply shrinks, prices will go up and people will go out of there way to mine it again.
Zakarumit CZ
Zakarum Industries
Forgers United
#92 - 2013-04-30 20:02:40 UTC
I still hope CCP will reconsider allowing Ice to spawn across all systems and not just some 'special' ones. Ice systems doesnt make sence and allowing ice to spawn anywhere would make anything much more exciting, than just sitting in one system and waiting for 4 hours to respawn.
I can also imagine much smarter spawning mechanics than 4 hours timer-why dont make it random with an average of 4 hours and a deviance of 2 hours or so? Please CCP, more scifi reality and less automatization-why the hell would space iceball appear only in some systems and only 4 hours after previous one disappear?
Lets also cancel the rule of 1 ice site per system so there is some chance less populated systems accumulate perhaps few ice sites over time.
Captain Tardbar
Deep Core Mining Inc.
Caldari State
#93 - 2013-04-30 20:04:07 UTC
Shepard Wong Ogeko wrote:
Captain Tardbar wrote:

Therefore people will just quit the profession all together.


If enough people quit ice mining, the supply will shrink. When the supply shrinks, prices will go up and people will go out of there way to mine it again.


Well if ice mining is worth more than roid mining, won't that validate the ignorant OP?

Even if its just as valuable, if its something that happens every 4 hours, then most people won't bother because its just too unpredictable.

I'm not going to read in on this, but would it be too much to assume that there will be multiple anomolies in a given system at a time? Or is that just a big guess. I mean they didn't say how many anomolies happen at a given time. It would be nice if CCP could confirm this *cough* *cough*

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Asuka Solo
I N E X T R E M I S
Tactical Narcotics Team
#94 - 2013-04-30 20:05:17 UTC
I'm patiently waiting for the 1 mil isk p/u mark for raw ice....

Then I'll start undercutting.

Eve is about Capital ships, WiS, Boobs, PI and Isk!
Vincent Athena
Photosynth
#95 - 2013-04-30 20:06:35 UTC
CCP Fozzie wrote:
None ofthe Above wrote:

The change in the mechanic makes a bit of sense to me, but this part about only spawning enough in high sec to meet 80% of high sec's demand has left me scratching my shiny head.


You're reading it wrong. Highsec will only spawn enough ice to meet 80% of the whole universe's demand. It will spawn roughly 800% of what it needs to meet Highsec's demand.

Does that include heavy water and ozone? That is can all the heavy water generated by high sec mining meet 800% of the heavy water needed to make the fuel for high sec POSes?

Know a Frozen fan? Check this out

Frozen fanfiction
Vincent Athena
Photosynth
#96 - 2013-04-30 20:12:01 UTC
Shepard Wong Ogeko wrote:
Captain Tardbar wrote:

I don't know if that is how its going to be. I mean think about it. Would you sit around waiting several hours for a resource to spawn?



I would go do something else. But I'm not a bot.

If actual players in highsec are doing nothing while waiting for ice anoms, then they are as dumb as a bot. They can go mine ore, or do missions, or do some hauling, or play the markets, or do some planetary interaction. It is their choice to paint themselves into the a corner of "I mine ice and only ice".

The issue there being that while you are out doing something else, the belt will spawn and get mined out. You return....no belt. Unless you sit there and wait, or have some other way to know when the spawn will happen, you could easily miss it.

Ice miner chat channel anyone?

Know a Frozen fan? Check this out

Frozen fanfiction
Danni stark
#97 - 2013-04-30 20:25:25 UTC
Vincent Athena wrote:
Shepard Wong Ogeko wrote:
Captain Tardbar wrote:

I don't know if that is how its going to be. I mean think about it. Would you sit around waiting several hours for a resource to spawn?



I would go do something else. But I'm not a bot.

If actual players in highsec are doing nothing while waiting for ice anoms, then they are as dumb as a bot. They can go mine ore, or do missions, or do some hauling, or play the markets, or do some planetary interaction. It is their choice to paint themselves into the a corner of "I mine ice and only ice".

The issue there being that while you are out doing something else, the belt will spawn and get mined out. You return....no belt. Unless you sit there and wait, or have some other way to know when the spawn will happen, you could easily miss it.

Ice miner chat channel anyone?


logic would dictate, as a miner, you would carry on mining ore until the ice belt respawned. or you'd be sensible and mine in a system with multiple ice anoms so you could do them one after another.

Ice Mining Skill Plan.
Captain Tardbar
Deep Core Mining Inc.
Caldari State
#98 - 2013-04-30 20:30:40 UTC
Danni stark wrote:
logic would dictate, as a miner, you would carry on mining ore until the ice belt respawned. or you'd be sensible and mine in a system with multiple ice anoms so you could do them one after another.


Do we have any confirmation on multiple ice anomalies? Or is this part of my suspicion as well, but no solid backing.

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Callduron
Dreddit
Test Alliance Please Ignore
#99 - 2013-04-30 20:31:52 UTC
baltec1 wrote:
None ofthe Above wrote:
DarthNefarius wrote:
CCP Fozzie wrote:

Currently 98.4% of all isotope ice is mined in highsec.

While highsec uses less than 15% of the isotopes in EVE.


WOW thanks some real stats Big smileShocked can I nick name you CCP Diagoras junior LolBlink


Oh that would be bad. How about just calling him Fozzie?


Or just the Foz...


eayyyyyyyy.


Well he is pretty cool!

I write http://stabbedup.blogspot.co.uk/

I post on reddit as /u/callduron.
Danni stark
#100 - 2013-04-30 20:36:37 UTC  |  Edited by: Danni stark
Captain Tardbar wrote:
Danni stark wrote:
logic would dictate, as a miner, you would carry on mining ore until the ice belt respawned. or you'd be sensible and mine in a system with multiple ice anoms so you could do them one after another.


Do we have any confirmation on multiple ice anomalies? Or is this part of my suspicion as well, but no solid backing.



as per the dev blog

That dev blog you should have read wrote:
all systems that currently contain ice belts will have at least one instance of these new Ice Anomalies. Some systems, mostly those that currently contain two or three ice belts, will contain multiple instances of the Ice Anomalies.

Ice Mining Skill Plan.