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Ice prices are too damn high!

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None ofthe Above
#61 - 2013-04-30 17:54:13 UTC
CCP Fozzie wrote:
None ofthe Above wrote:

The change in the mechanic makes a bit of sense to me, but this part about only spawning enough in high sec to meet 80% of high sec's demand has left me scratching my shiny head.


You're reading it wrong. Highsec will only spawn enough ice to meet 80% of the whole universe's demand. It will spawn roughly 800% of what it needs to meet Highsec's demand.


Oh? Well then sorry for my mistake. That doesn't sound too bad.

The only end-game content in EVE Online is the crap that makes you rage quit.
DarthNefarius
Minmatar Heavy Industries
#62 - 2013-04-30 17:58:25 UTC
CCP Fozzie wrote:
None ofthe Above wrote:

The change in the mechanic makes a bit of sense to me, but this part about only spawning enough in high sec to meet 80% of high sec's demand has left me scratching my shiny head.


You're reading it wrong. Highsec will only spawn enough ice to meet 80% of the whole universe's demand. It will spawn roughly 800% of what it needs to meet Highsec's demand.


800% WOW... out of curiosiy what are the statistics of WH vs NULL vs LO sec POS'? Wish we still had a CCP Diagoras so we could figure out better where we are in Eve so there'd be a little less confusion which starts bad rumour like the 1 None of the Above had Attention
An' then Chicken@little.com, he come scramblin outta the    Terminal room screaming "The system's crashing! The system's    crashing!" -Uncle RAMus, 'Tales for Cyberpsychotic Children'
Haulie Berry
#63 - 2013-04-30 18:02:35 UTC  |  Edited by: Haulie Berry
DarthNefarius wrote:
Haulie Berry wrote:
Quote:
...and that bots are going to be fuckered up by this change...


It would be EXTREMELY difficult, if not impossible, to devise gameplay mechanics that would be difficult to bot .


Show me a bot in incursions... I've seen a few ISBOXERs do it but they lose 90% of the competitions when we decide to bother with them ( TBH if we found out a bot could do NMC's we'd probably let them so more NCO's & OTA's spawned )


I would be surprised if they don't exist, but I'm not sure the isk:effort ratio is there or, more importantly, the dollar:effort ratio. At a glance it might seem like it would be vastly more lucrative than a mining bot, but mining pretty much scales infinitely. If the suggestion is that they're simply too "difficult" or "complicated" to bot, I assure you that's a preposterous notion.
CCP Fozzie
C C P
C C P Alliance
#64 - 2013-04-30 18:15:31 UTC  |  Edited by: CCP Fozzie
Haulie Berry wrote:
CCP Fozzie wrote:
None ofthe Above wrote:

The change in the mechanic makes a bit of sense to me, but this part about only spawning enough in high sec to meet 80% of high sec's demand has left me scratching my shiny head.


You're reading it wrong. Highsec will only spawn enough ice to meet 80% of the whole universe's demand. It will spawn roughly 800% of what it needs to meet Highsec's demand.


Just for funsies, currently what percentage of the universe's ice consumption is sourced from high sec?


Currently 98.4% of all isotope ice is mined in highsec.

While highsec uses less than 15% of the isotopes in EVE.

Game Designer | Team Five-0

Twitter: @CCP_Fozzie
Twitch chat: ccp_fozzie
DarthNefarius
Minmatar Heavy Industries
#65 - 2013-04-30 18:16:30 UTC
Haulie Berry wrote:
DarthNefarius wrote:
Haulie Berry wrote:
Quote:
...and that bots are going to be fuckered up by this change...


It would be EXTREMELY difficult, if not impossible, to devise gameplay mechanics that would be difficult to bot .


Show me a bot in incursions... I've seen a few ISBOXERs do it but they lose 90% of the competitions when we decide to bother with them ( TBH if we found out a bot could do NMC's we'd probably let them so more NCO's & OTA's spawned )


I would be surprised if they don't exist, but I'm not sure the isk:effort ratio is there or, more importantly, the dollar:effort ratio. At a glance it might seem like it would be vastly more lucrative than a mining bot, but mining pretty much scales infinitely. If the suggestion is that they're simply too "difficult" or "complicated" to bot, I assure you that's a preposterous notion.


The trouble with an incursion bot would be it couldn't compete for a site & would lose 9/10+ times
Also the complexity of incursion sites due to changing aggro are a bit beyond the scope of current bots: Have you ever heard of a sleeper site bot yet? I'm guessing no for much the same reasons plus in WH space there is no Concord protections
An' then Chicken@little.com, he come scramblin outta the    Terminal room screaming "The system's crashing! The system's    crashing!" -Uncle RAMus, 'Tales for Cyberpsychotic Children'
Danni stark
#66 - 2013-04-30 18:17:59 UTC
CCP Fozzie wrote:
Haulie Berry wrote:
CCP Fozzie wrote:
None ofthe Above wrote:

The change in the mechanic makes a bit of sense to me, but this part about only spawning enough in high sec to meet 80% of high sec's demand has left me scratching my shiny head.


You're reading it wrong. Highsec will only spawn enough ice to meet 80% of the whole universe's demand. It will spawn roughly 800% of what it needs to meet Highsec's demand.


Just for funsies, currently what percentage of the universe's ice consumption is sourced from high sec?


Currently 98.4% of all isotope ice is mined in highsec.

While highsec uses less than 15% of the isotopes in EVE.


******* called it.

Ice Mining Skill Plan.
DarthNefarius
Minmatar Heavy Industries
#67 - 2013-04-30 18:17:59 UTC  |  Edited by: DarthNefarius
CCP Fozzie wrote:

Currently 98.4% of all isotope ice is mined in highsec.

While highsec uses less than 15% of the isotopes in EVE.


WOW thanks some real stats Big smileShocked can I nick name you CCP Diagoras junior LolBlink

NULL SEC is really going to have to scramble to get POS fuel in the near future unless they stockpiled ALOT of POS fuel over the years until the release of Odyssy

CCP Soundwave's vision of ICE becomming New Eden's oil could very well come true in the next 6 months!
An' then Chicken@little.com, he come scramblin outta the    Terminal room screaming "The system's crashing! The system's    crashing!" -Uncle RAMus, 'Tales for Cyberpsychotic Children'
None ofthe Above
#68 - 2013-04-30 18:21:54 UTC
DarthNefarius wrote:
CCP Fozzie wrote:

Currently 98.4% of all isotope ice is mined in highsec.

While highsec uses less than 15% of the isotopes in EVE.


WOW thanks some real stats Big smileShocked can I nick name you CCP Diagoras junior LolBlink


Oh that would be bad. How about just calling him Fozzie?

The only end-game content in EVE Online is the crap that makes you rage quit.
baltec1
Bat Country
Pandemic Horde
#69 - 2013-04-30 18:26:04 UTC
CCP Fozzie wrote:
Haulie Berry wrote:
CCP Fozzie wrote:
None ofthe Above wrote:

The change in the mechanic makes a bit of sense to me, but this part about only spawning enough in high sec to meet 80% of high sec's demand has left me scratching my shiny head.


You're reading it wrong. Highsec will only spawn enough ice to meet 80% of the whole universe's demand. It will spawn roughly 800% of what it needs to meet Highsec's demand.


Just for funsies, currently what percentage of the universe's ice consumption is sourced from high sec?


Currently 98.4% of all isotope ice is mined in highsec.

While highsec uses less than 15% of the isotopes in EVE.


Delicious numbers.
DarthNefarius
Minmatar Heavy Industries
#70 - 2013-04-30 18:27:01 UTC  |  Edited by: DarthNefarius
None ofthe Above wrote:

Oh that would be bad. How about just calling him Fozzie?


I keep on hearing "WAKA WAKA WAKA" http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=Z8uY79zQeak whenever I read his name

His name is like a running gagin meh head:
An' then Chicken@little.com, he come scramblin outta the    Terminal room screaming "The system's crashing! The system's    crashing!" -Uncle RAMus, 'Tales for Cyberpsychotic Children'
Calathorn Virpio
Caldari Provisions
Caldari State
#71 - 2013-04-30 18:28:12 UTC
CCP Fozzie wrote:
Haulie Berry wrote:
CCP Fozzie wrote:
None ofthe Above wrote:

The change in the mechanic makes a bit of sense to me, but this part about only spawning enough in high sec to meet 80% of high sec's demand has left me scratching my shiny head.


You're reading it wrong. Highsec will only spawn enough ice to meet 80% of the whole universe's demand. It will spawn roughly 800% of what it needs to meet Highsec's demand.


Just for funsies, currently what percentage of the universe's ice consumption is sourced from high sec?


Currently 98.4% of all isotope ice is mined in highsec.

While highsec uses less than 15% of the isotopes in EVE.



so only an 18.4% reduction? i do believe speculation is the reason for the price hike then

BRING BACK THE JUKEBOX

I attended the School of Hard Nocks, the only place you will ever learn anything of value, sadly most Americans never meet the requirments to attend
Danni stark
#72 - 2013-04-30 18:30:11 UTC
Calathorn Virpio wrote:
CCP Fozzie wrote:
Haulie Berry wrote:
CCP Fozzie wrote:
None ofthe Above wrote:

The change in the mechanic makes a bit of sense to me, but this part about only spawning enough in high sec to meet 80% of high sec's demand has left me scratching my shiny head.


You're reading it wrong. Highsec will only spawn enough ice to meet 80% of the whole universe's demand. It will spawn roughly 800% of what it needs to meet Highsec's demand.


Just for funsies, currently what percentage of the universe's ice consumption is sourced from high sec?


Currently 98.4% of all isotope ice is mined in highsec.

While highsec uses less than 15% of the isotopes in EVE.



so only an 18.4% reduction? i do believe speculation is the reason for the price hike then


you do realise the 80% is the assumption that EVERY high sec ice belt is mined out EVERY time it spawns, and done so in under an hour

Ice Mining Skill Plan.
J3ssica Alba
Federal Navy Academy
Gallente Federation
#73 - 2013-04-30 18:30:44 UTC
Let's interdict ALL the ice. We'll have null sec on their knees begging us for an isotope or two ... muahahahaa Twisted
This is my signature. There are many others like it, but this one is mine.  Without me, my signature is useless. Without my signature, I am useless
Captain Tardbar
Deep Core Mining Inc.
Caldari State
#74 - 2013-04-30 18:31:52 UTC
Calathorn Virpio wrote:
so only an 18.4% reduction? i do believe speculation is the reason for the price hike then


Well it sure isn't related to the quanity supplied. Since the price hikes, my ice belt has gone from 5 miners on average to about 20-30. Some of these guys with isboxer balls of hulks and charons. Ice mining has become serious business.

Oh my wallet... It flashes!

Looking to talk on VOIP with other EVE players? Are you new and need help with EVE (welfare) or looking for advice? Looking for adversarial debate with angry people?

Captain Tardbar's Voice Discord Server
baltec1
Bat Country
Pandemic Horde
#75 - 2013-04-30 18:33:39 UTC
None ofthe Above wrote:
DarthNefarius wrote:
CCP Fozzie wrote:

Currently 98.4% of all isotope ice is mined in highsec.

While highsec uses less than 15% of the isotopes in EVE.


WOW thanks some real stats Big smileShocked can I nick name you CCP Diagoras junior LolBlink


Oh that would be bad. How about just calling him Fozzie?


Or just the Foz...


eayyyyyyyy.
DarthNefarius
Minmatar Heavy Industries
#76 - 2013-04-30 18:34:02 UTC
J3ssica Alba wrote:
Let's interdict ALL the ice. We'll have null sec on their knees begging us for an isotope or two ... muahahahaa Twisted


That would force NULL SEC to suffer the indignity of actually having to ice mine thereBearLol Imagine the delicious tearsEvilTwisted
An' then Chicken@little.com, he come scramblin outta the    Terminal room screaming "The system's crashing! The system's    crashing!" -Uncle RAMus, 'Tales for Cyberpsychotic Children'
Danni stark
#77 - 2013-04-30 18:35:22 UTC  |  Edited by: Danni stark
DarthNefarius wrote:
J3ssica Alba wrote:
Let's interdict ALL the ice. We'll have null sec on their knees begging us for an isotope or two ... muahahahaa Twisted


That would force NULL SEC to suffer the indignity of actually having to ice mine thereBearLol Imagine the delicious tearsEvilTwisted


yes imagine the ice when they're doing a 40m isk/hour activity after odyssey.
considering you can get a max yield ice retriever in like 3 weeks, guess what the new fleet doctrine for newbros are?
24d 5h 43m 50s. no implants, no remap, assuming some one else rigs the ship for you.

Ice Mining Skill Plan.
RubyPorto
RubysRhymes
#78 - 2013-04-30 18:41:47 UTC
Calathorn Virpio wrote:
so only an 18.4% reduction? i do believe speculation is the reason for the price hike then


Outside HS, the income from ice is competing directly with Ore mining, as the activity needed to stay safe far outstrips the extra occasional click to target a new enormous Ore roid.


It's like the effect that T2 BPOs have on T2 markets. In markets where they produce virtually all the supply needed to fulfill demand, the item consistently trades at a profit for BPO owners and a loss for inventors. In markets where they only produce most of the supply* the item consistently trades at a normal profit for inventors and a large profit for BPO owners.

In other words, when demand outstrips a cheaper source's capacity, the price is quickly dominated by the most expensive source needed to fill that excess demand.


*Example from one of CCP Diagoras's tweets: About 80% of Expanded Cargohold IIs are produced from BPOs. Expanded Cargohold IIs are profitable to invent about as often as any other similar item.

"It's easy to speak for the silent majority. They rarely object to what you put into their mouths." -Abrazzar "the risk of having your day ruined by other people is the cornerstone with which EVE was built" -CCP Solomon
Xython
Federal Navy Academy
Gallente Federation
#79 - 2013-04-30 18:43:30 UTC
DarthNefarius wrote:
J3ssica Alba wrote:
Let's interdict ALL the ice. We'll have null sec on their knees begging us for an isotope or two ... muahahahaa Twisted


That would force NULL SEC to suffer the indignity of actually having to ice mine thereBearLol Imagine the delicious tearsEvilTwisted


Considering it's been a stated goal of basically every NullSec alliance to try and get CCP to actually fix NullSec mining and industrialism for oh, 5 years? Yeah, lots of tears there. Roll

About a year ago CCP Soundwave openly was talking about making Ice Nullsec only. I'm kinda disappointed that this seems to have been compromised down to "Ice will be a bit scarce if people don't mine a little bit in Null." But then again, we haven't seen how this change will affect things.

Hey, who knows, maybe Concord won't show up to Ice Anoms in highsec, or will be a bit delayed. Find a bot -- deal with it yourself.
Shepard Wong Ogeko
Native Freshfood
Minmatar Republic
#80 - 2013-04-30 18:53:22 UTC
Haulie Berry wrote:

...there will be ice mining bots still...



Here is the problem with ice mining bots post Odyssey; The bots won't be able to make consistent isk/hr non-stop. That is why you would run a bot, because a bot can play eve constantly, and one expects the bot to make isk constantly.

What is the point of running a bot that is going to sit in a station and make no isk for hours at a time, only undocking to verify the ice anom hasn't respawned yet. And this bot will have to compete with other players because the ice anoms aren't going to be effectively limitless like current ice belts. So you can't just calculate that your bot will mine exactly X ice/hr, because even if human players aren't spamming the scan button to jump into an ice anom as soon as it spawns, players will eventually show up and take some ice for them selves.