EVE General Discussion

This logic is solid. However, I should be able to bring a Noctis and snatch 8 things at once; unless this is also possible, then these are just arcade mechanics for the sake of annoying players.

ISK per hour and supposed operational costs are too small a view point from which to approach the current issues though not without all merit. One solid reason to approach providing feedback on the current issue from a design standpoint is to bring the very ideas that lead the team to attempt to implement these features into question in order to prevent future issues from arising such as catch and grab mining ore mini-games to vanishing loot vomiting PVP wrecks. Such features do not play out as logical extentions of piloting a ship in EVE. They have no place and run so strongly contrary to established mechanics as to destroy the integrity of play.

One of the primary reasons the multi-launch probe formation change netted such ringing approval was in that it removed tons of USELESS clicks and did so in such a way as to make the feature more “accessible”, efficient, and fun to use. If the same care was given to the rest of the UI from the overview on down the entire game would benefit becoming more “accessible”, efficient, fun to play, and the cheers on stage next year would be frightening.

Yet, here we have an exploration site mechanic that attempts to add more USELESS clicks and random chance in an effort to make it feel more active and involving or like an actual skill profession while failing miserably at the task for being shallow and out of place. There are so many better ways to address these concerns while remaining true to the core of the game. Several have been mentioned previously in thread. Now is the time to mention it and hopefully see a revaluation more fitting the nature of the game we play.

Simulations are not outdated nor an old school thing of the past to be discarded because we live in an age where the market is dominated by twitch, graphics, attention deficits, and the demand for instant reward. The simulation model at its core is one of the few things that differentiate the game from its competition. I understand the need to grow but this should be done while remaining true to yourself rather than discarding the core values that lead to current success.

As a UK based home astronomer ( star gazer) the quality of the simulation and depth of immersion was what really drew me to and has sustained me in Eve. No frustrating cloudy nights and freezing cold head as i tried to view deep space objects. Proudly sitting in my hulk and mining whilst sipping a whiskey and listening to the space soundtracks was strangely profound and very satisfying. Exploration sites once reached were similarly attractive.

Im really not happy about the direction its going, particularly the anti solo culture in CCP and injection of distractions for those with short attention spans. BUT i m only reading others posts so far about the mechanics. Suck it and see as they say.

HOWEVER can someone with direct first hand knowledge confirm the following for me - ODYSSEY will allow a cloaky solo to explore higher reward null sec sites without any rats or rat aggro?

If this is the case , then the Lord truely has taken away with one hand but given back with the other and I'm grateful- i think.

( Meanwhile - Somewhere deep in the CCP HQ in Iceland - Dev sends memo - " complete Odyssey update by removing cloak from cloak ships")

Very good point and a very frustrating and needless mechanic. Hiding whilst a gang pass through only to see your hard found site despawn takes some swallowing. The new breed of lightweight explorers is not going to be able to handle it either.

I've been thinking a bit more about the Loot Barf and having multiple players there, I can only see having multiple players being there as having a result of reducing the ISK/Hour/Player.
With 2 Players, You may get lucky and not click on each others loot, although I'm pretty sure that there will most likely be 1 or 2 that both players click on. Thus making it if 1 player can click on 5/10 loot items, does not mean that 2 players will get 10/10 loot items, the most likely is either 8/10 or 9/10 if lucky, and most probably going down the more players you have.
Thus working from averages and making the math easy, lets just say the average is that every loot has 1M ISK worth in it.
1 Player can get 5M
2 Players can get 8 to 9M (thus each player getting 4M to 4.5M each)
More Players even less per player(numbers are completely arbitrary)


I would prefer to balance on time instead of items. If you jettison the cargo/loot so that it eventually filled a cone of space 100Km tall and 70Km radius from the Hacking location, with cans flying at 5Km/s at beginning and then slowing down as they get further out, then a few players will complete the site faster and thus move onto other sites, whilst the solo player would still be picking up cans.(numbers can be changed for balancing)

Regarding the minigame I believe it can be fun and I'm looking forward to try it out. It reminds me a bit of Paradroid (old C64 game - some people might remember it), which I loved.

Regarding the "loot spew mechanics" I believe it will be unfun for several reasons:

1. The psychological factor
Currently, if I hack a site, I will get what is inside. If it's empty or the contains are not really valuable it's more or less ok, because I know that there was nothing else to be found in that place. With the new mechanic I will get some stuff but regardless how good it is, I'll always wonder if one of the containers I didn't catch contained the real gem.
I believe most people will worry about the stuff they couldn't get, more that they are satisfied with what they got.

2. The twitch game factor
Some people aren't actually good at twitch games. It seems the new mechanics will reward people with a good hand-eye coordination and will put other people at a disadvantage (note: this is not a question of isk/hr or risk/reward ... the quicker person will always get more).

3. The immersion factor / realism
While EvE Online is a fantasy game it's still based somewhat on sience and logic. And it makes no sense at all, that every ship wreck in space is under pressure no matter how old it is supposed to be. And why shouldn't I drill a hole into the wreck to depressurize it before I hack it, to open it? Or what about installing a net to catch all the stuff - or would a net be too high-tech? And when a wreck "explodes" every time I open it anyway, why bother using a hacking tool when I have guns?
I admit it could be much worse ... like having an animated loot fairy looking like Rosie O'Donnell fly in, wildly flapping her wings and present the loot in a wrapped giftbox with a nice ribbon on top.

4. The solo/group play factor
I understand that one of the reasons for the change is to entice people to explore in groups. But currently it seems we have 1 person that explores like he used to, and a 2nd person waiting to catch some cans now and then and trying not to die of boredom. Tbh I always considered exploring to be meant being a solo-activitiy in EvE. There are enough interesting activities that require multiple people ot that give a huge benefit for bringing friends. So if friends are online and we intend to do some group stuff I cannot really see us going exploring - not now, not then.


Btw, someone came up with the idea to add cans that need to ba hacked later (at a station?). I believe that's an idea that should be pursued.

If oddysey is about exploration then it should have a lot more content, more types of sites, something new etc not only redone mag and radar sites...

ITT:The sky is falling!

What incentive is there for an alliance to install upgrades for these? I'm one of the team who would have to put forward the business case for the project to procure, ship and deploy these; a project with significant time and resource commitment in an environment with chaotic redistribution of income due to other changes. With no way for an alliance to track usage (no unique rat bounties showing up on corp apis), no alliance or corp revenue generated, and no obvious strategic advantage from yet another minor income source for a few individuals over other income sources?

It might be fun, but we won't know who is using it, how often and what income is derived.

EVE is serious business.

I don't know if you saw the keynote where CCP Seagull was talking about Instigators and Enablers? We definitely want to empower people like yourself to make these sorts of decisions. This means providing you with more data and CREST our new third-party API platform is one of the means to doing that. This is bigger than just the exploration feature though and CREST is not yet user-facing so there are a couple of hurdles in the way but we're moving towards this ideal pretty quickly. Exposing data then becomes much more straightforward.