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Dev Blog: CSM8 Election Results

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President of Spaceships
Center for Advanced Studies
Gallente Federation
#61 - 2013-04-29 13:01:31 UTC
Congratulations to the Council. I will do my best to get along with my fellow elected officials.

As for the Goon vote suppression, that was definitely a thing that happened. See here.

On the one hand, the use of the CCP brand makes it a little across-the-line because, while vote-scamming is legal, I'm pretty sure that impersonating the developers to gain an advantage is not (much like cutting the power to someone's house is not).

On the other hand, I think it's more satire than actual voter suppression. Anyone who fell for that definitely has bigger problems than not being represented on the CSM.
None ofthe Above
#62 - 2013-04-29 14:50:34 UTC
Frying Doom wrote:
Congratulations to all who won.

But peace time council, that has to be the worst spin job ever done. CCP was told by everyone that the STV system would be a huge drag on voter numbers, now after the largest campaign by CCP to get people to vote for the CSM, we end up 10,000 votes short of last year.

Yes CSM7s lack of transparency and communication will not have helped but

The STV has got to go.

Edit: Also who were the two with the highest votes that get to go to Iceland automatically?


You really are going to go there?

You who said STV is a good system if we get a higher voter turn out. Instead of focusing on getting a higher voter participation?

If your left leg doesn't work, are you going to cut off your right to compensate? Why bother with surgeries and physical therapy, am I right?

Terrible. You really think that going back to FPTP is going to fix anything?

The only end-game content in EVE Online is the crap that makes you rage quit.
Aprudena Gist
Deep Core Mining Inc.
Caldari State
#63 - 2013-04-29 16:00:14 UTC
If there are that many more US players then the rest of the world why do you idiots continue to run your stupid live evens in euro time only.
Sarmatiko
#64 - 2013-04-29 16:39:28 UTC
Aprudena Gist wrote:
If there are that many more US players then the rest of the world why do you idiots continue to run your stupid live evens in euro time only.

Cool story bro.

41.6% of European subscribers.
41.4% of US & Canada subscribers.
3.71% subscribers from Australia.
And 13.29% subscribers without breakdown on location, so we can assume that number can be equally split between those 3 time groups.

"there are that many more US players then the rest of the world" - your math has failed , sorry.

But ofc CCP should do something to satisfy people from US/AU timezones in future.
Danielle Oerdarte
The Scope
Gallente Federation
#65 - 2013-04-29 18:59:19 UTC  |  Edited by: Danielle Oerdarte
Terrorfrodo wrote:
Maybe the disenfranchised 10k voters of last year were also an issue. Although hisec forumbears believe otherwise, The Mittani got a lot of votes from people not affiliated with Goons and not even living in null, including one of mine. Some people may not have bothered to vote after their vote was just thrown into the trash bin last time.


That's an interesting possibility I suppose. Although if it was a significant effect it's a terribly ironic one, given that part of the purpose of STV is that your vote shouldn't get wasted no matter what the outcome (or at least that the percentage of truly disenfranchised voters should be very small).
DarthNefarius
Minmatar Heavy Industries
#66 - 2013-04-29 19:49:11 UTC
Snow Axe wrote:
DarthNefarius wrote:
There is a simply way to fix the poor voter turnout: COMPULSORY SUFFERAGE


A great idea, if the image of GM's having to deal with more angry "I can't log in" petitions than votes gets you all excited.


Simple copy pasta replies will suffice.
The fake howls will be fun to see in the forums
But it'll by interesting to see if we get more meaningful votes or just random noise donkey voting.
An' then Chicken@little.com, he come scramblin outta the    Terminal room screaming "The system's crashing! The system's    crashing!" -Uncle RAMus, 'Tales for Cyberpsychotic Children'
Frying Doom
#67 - 2013-04-29 22:00:56 UTC
None ofthe Above wrote:
Frying Doom wrote:
Congratulations to all who won.

But peace time council, that has to be the worst spin job ever done. CCP was told by everyone that the STV system would be a huge drag on voter numbers, now after the largest campaign by CCP to get people to vote for the CSM, we end up 10,000 votes short of last year.

Yes CSM7s lack of transparency and communication will not have helped but

The STV has got to go.

Edit: Also who were the two with the highest votes that get to go to Iceland automatically?


You really are going to go there?

You who said STV is a good system if we get a higher voter turn out. Instead of focusing on getting a higher voter participation?

If your left leg doesn't work, are you going to cut off your right to compensate? Why bother with surgeries and physical therapy, am I right?

Terrible. You really think that going back to FPTP is going to fix anything?

As people seem to hate the STV system yes, that is one of the general problems with an STV system, the added complexity plus the fact that people don't know who they actually voted for.

If my left leg doesn't work, I might try to remove the dead weight STV is from it before I would worry about surgery. After all CCP and the CSM tied an anchor to the voting numbers, threw it over the side and now don't seem to have any idea why it is sinking.

Yes I think leaving the simpler system, and returning voter interest by making our votes count for who goes to Iceland, then a full year of things from CCP and the CSM as to why the CSM is important, are necessary. As well as a lot of transparency and communication from CSM8. To try to undo this mess.

Any spelling, grammatical and punctuation errors are because frankly, I don't care!!
Josef Djugashvilis
#68 - 2013-04-29 22:08:24 UTC
It really, really, bothers me that I am of such little importance in Eve that the goons did not try to suppress my vote.

I demand that the goons try to suppress my vote.

I want to the goons to make me feel important.

This is not a signature.
CCP Dolan
C C P
C C P Alliance
#69 - 2013-04-29 22:20:11 UTC
We are going to delay the publishing of the CCP Veritas stats Dev Blog by a day. We have some more graphs that we would like to add.

CCP Dolan | Community Representative

Twitter: @CCPDolan

Gooby pls
Frying Doom
#70 - 2013-04-29 22:33:44 UTC
CCP Dolan wrote:
We are going to delay the publishing of the CCP Veritas stats Dev Blog by a day. We have some more graphs that we would like to add.

Will these graphs include the number of page views of the voting page vs the number of actual votes?

Any spelling, grammatical and punctuation errors are because frankly, I don't care!!
Mara Noan
Harbingers of Chaos Inc.
Fraternity.
#71 - 2013-04-30 00:23:55 UTC
Frying Doom wrote:
CCP Dolan wrote:
We are going to delay the publishing of the CCP Veritas stats Dev Blog by a day. We have some more graphs that we would like to add.

Will these graphs include the number of page views of the voting page vs the number of actual votes?


That could be an interesting teller, I bet they keep that internal though.

I have no idea why people keep speculating about us trying to take over the whole galaxy, because it's a miracle we can even tie our shoes in the morning." - The Mittani, GSF leader
Frying Doom
#72 - 2013-04-30 01:56:58 UTC
Mara Noan wrote:
Frying Doom wrote:
CCP Dolan wrote:
We are going to delay the publishing of the CCP Veritas stats Dev Blog by a day. We have some more graphs that we would like to add.

Will these graphs include the number of page views of the voting page vs the number of actual votes?


That could be an interesting teller, I bet they keep that internal though.

I think that is a pretty safe bet.

Any spelling, grammatical and punctuation errors are because frankly, I don't care!!
Snow Axe
Republic Military School
Minmatar Republic
#73 - 2013-04-30 04:35:16 UTC
Frying Doom wrote:
Will these graphs include the number of page views of the voting page vs the number of actual votes?


Yeah really! Not only would this information be worthless without past years' data to compare to, Frying Doom here can intentionally misrepresent it to prove his point!

CCP MAKE IT HAPPEN

"Look any reason why you need to talk like that? I have now reported you. I dont need to listen to your bad tone. If you cant have a grown up conversation then leave the thread["
Frying Doom
#74 - 2013-04-30 04:43:08 UTC  |  Edited by: Frying Doom
Snow Axe wrote:
Frying Doom wrote:
Will these graphs include the number of page views of the voting page vs the number of actual votes?


Yeah really! Not only would this information be worthless without past years' data to compare to, Frying Doom here can intentionally misrepresent it to prove his point!

CCP MAKE IT HAPPEN

Yes because in your fantasy world, people go to the voting page and keep reloading it.

But now I suppose is where you tell me a voter turn out of 12.12% is actually really good.Lol

Any spelling, grammatical and punctuation errors are because frankly, I don't care!!
Snow Axe
Republic Military School
Minmatar Republic
#75 - 2013-04-30 06:50:54 UTC
Frying Doom wrote:
Yes because in your fantasy world, people go to the voting page and keep reloading it.


Nah, just meant there's more than one reason someone can go to a page and not vote. I know what you'll say - it'd be evidence of how everyone hates STV and STV ruined the election, much like you've been trying to do since the day the results came out.

Frying Doom wrote:
But now I suppose is where you tell me a voter turn out of 12.12% is actually really good.Lol


Is this the part where you tell everyone what IS a good percentage turnout for an unprecedented video game advisory council?

"Look any reason why you need to talk like that? I have now reported you. I dont need to listen to your bad tone. If you cant have a grown up conversation then leave the thread["
Frying Doom
#76 - 2013-04-30 07:04:27 UTC
Snow Axe wrote:
Frying Doom wrote:
Yes because in your fantasy world, people go to the voting page and keep reloading it.


Nah, just meant there's more than one reason someone can go to a page and not vote. I know what you'll say - it'd be evidence of how everyone hates STV and STV ruined the election, much like you've been trying to do since the day the results came out.

I wonder if that is because the voting percentages stunk, and players have said it stinks. Why would people go to the voting page other than to vote? I think you are grasping at straws, now that you have realized that STV is good for organized blocks and Null sec as a whole.

Snow Axe wrote:
Frying Doom wrote:
But now I suppose is where you tell me a voter turn out of 12.12% is actually really good.Lol


Is this the part where you tell everyone what IS a good percentage turnout for an unprecedented video game advisory council?

Well after CCP did the most advertising it has ever done in a CSM campaign, a higher percentage would have be good.

Any spelling, grammatical and punctuation errors are because frankly, I don't care!!
Snow Axe
Republic Military School
Minmatar Republic
#77 - 2013-04-30 07:32:31 UTC
Frying Doom wrote:
I wonder if that is because the voting percentages stunk, and players have said it stinks. Why would people go to the voting page other than to vote? I think you are grasping at straws, now that you have realized that STV is good for organized blocks and Null sec as a whole.


Nice try, but no.

Voting numbers were going to be down no matter what the voting system - this CSM failed bigtime in engaging with players and convincing us that we should care about the CSM. CCP dropped the ball there bigtime as well (well, until they finally came out and actually said what the CSM meant to them, way too late to make a difference this year). I don't deny that STV turned some people off, but it's nowhere near the factor you think it is.

Page refreshes aren't just useless because you don't know why someone went to the page and then left, they're also useless without historical context. You can't say something is "better" or "worse" without any kind of baseline.

And this leads us to...

Frying Doom wrote:
Well after CCP did the most advertising it has ever done in a CSM campaign, a higher percentage would have be good.


That's not what I asked. I asked you what percentage of voters for such a thing would be "good" by your standards? I mean, if 12.12% is horrific, then what's good?

"Look any reason why you need to talk like that? I have now reported you. I dont need to listen to your bad tone. If you cant have a grown up conversation then leave the thread["
pussnheels
Viziam
#78 - 2013-04-30 07:43:43 UTC
another failure , less than 20% of the people voted , and CCP calls this a succes ??

just repeating my call to stop with this CSM thingy and use proper feedback threads to learn what your players think or want

I do not agree with what you are saying , but i will defend to the death your right to say it...... Voltaire
Frying Doom
#79 - 2013-04-30 07:55:14 UTC
Snow Axe wrote:
Frying Doom wrote:
I wonder if that is because the voting percentages stunk, and players have said it stinks. Why would people go to the voting page other than to vote? I think you are grasping at straws, now that you have realized that STV is good for organized blocks and Null sec as a whole.


Nice try, but no.

Voting numbers were going to be down no matter what the voting system - this CSM failed bigtime in engaging with players and convincing us that we should care about the CSM. CCP dropped the ball there bigtime as well (well, until they finally came out and actually said what the CSM meant to them, way too late to make a difference this year). I don't deny that STV turned some people off, but it's nowhere near the factor you think it is.

Page refreshes aren't just useless because you don't know why someone went to the page and then left, they're also useless without historical context. You can't say something is "better" or "worse" without any kind of baseline.

And this leads us to...

Did I say I was looking at a trend, no but it would be nice to know how many people actually went to the page, and then did not vote. I will not say CCP did a good job, but it was still a better job than they have ever done before.

As to the STV, it is known to turn voters off, but I do agree the amount is not easily calculable, given the non-communicative, CCP cheer leading CSM7s drain on the will of the voters.

Snow Axe wrote:
Frying Doom wrote:
Well after CCP did the most advertising it has ever done in a CSM campaign, a higher percentage would have be good.


That's not what I asked. I asked you what percentage of voters for such a thing would be "good" by your standards? I mean, if 12.12% is horrific, then what's good?

As I said a good percentage is one that goes up every election. As to an actual specific figure, I have none. So long as it climbs every year it is good.

Any spelling, grammatical and punctuation errors are because frankly, I don't care!!
Snow Axe
Republic Military School
Minmatar Republic
#80 - 2013-04-30 08:02:15 UTC  |  Edited by: Snow Axe
Frying Doom wrote:
Did I say I was looking at a trend, no but it would be nice to know how many people actually went to the page, and then did not vote. I will not say CCP did a good job, but it was still a better job than they have ever done before.


Translation: I have no clue how to actually read this data, but just give me a number so I can point and shriek "SEE THIS WAS ALL STV"

I'll give you a hint as to why I said that: for the numbers of visits without votes to mean anything, you'd need to know what the same total was in prior years. Without that, you just have a number with no frame of reference at all.

"Look any reason why you need to talk like that? I have now reported you. I dont need to listen to your bad tone. If you cant have a grown up conversation then leave the thread["