EVE General Discussion

It's evident that people still have wildly inflated ideas about how much the best moons are worth.

A top tier hi-sec mission running system probably produces as much wealth as the whole CFC derives from its Tech resources. Let's actually do the maths, shall we?

1 tech moon = 5B/month. Pretty nice! But that's actually only 7M an hour!

1 mission runner = 30M/hr (including LP rewards). Some will get quite a bit more, some will get somewhat less, but I think 30M/hr for the best agents (and those will be by definition the busiest ones) is a reasonable average figure.

If we assume that a top tier mission system has an average of 100 people running missions at any one time, then that system will produce as much wealth as 400+ Tech moons. And 100 is a very low-ball average for those systems, by the way; it's more like the minimum.

In terms of pure wealth creation, any 0.0 coalition could trade all the tech moons it owns in return for a single cash cow hi-sec system like Osmon (which also has 3 Ice belts, and of course 150 manufacturing slots as well , to sweeten the deal) being transported into the middle of their space, and come out well ahead on the deal.

"Oh but Malc," I hear you say "If that was true, then those mission systems would be riddled with 0.0 players!"

They are.

Except people would still run the missions on Osmon on alts, because it's safer there and they pay zero taxes on that alt, and the nullsec coalition would have traded 600billion ISK/month for basically nothing. Other than that, you've illustrated the situation perfectly.

(Now move that system to nullsec and remove L4's from highsec, as some wise individuals have proposed...)

Why should nullsec get to play by different rules? All you need to do to make nullsec ultra competitive is allow everyone with manufacturing capability to actually have 11 slots to work with, and have those slots cost the same as hisec NPC station slots. This ultimately refactors to: increase the cost of hisec slots and reduce the abundance of those slots, so that NPC slots are more expensive than POS slots.

It may sound completely ******** to many of you, but I would say this:


The space security scheme of EVE is naive and ill-tought (does this word exist? I'm not a native English speaker).

Safety should mainly take into consideration the activity you are doing and less the space you are doing it in.

An example: mining veldspar should be almost equally sure in all areas of space; it is mined semi AFK in highsec and it should be possible to mine it semi AFK everywhere. Activities that give great income as lvl4 missions, incursions and so on should be more dangerous and you should be attackable while doing them in highsec.

Having this high level concept applied would actually encourage most highsec dwellers to move and interact with nullsec people directly. Miners would move.

I can not blame CCP for choosing the fast route and just put lowend ores into highend minerals, but I think they lost a chance to create interaction, by moving the minerals and not the miners.

No, because Nullsec would be the only place where to mine arkonor and other stuff and that would not be safe.

…and is easily matched by almost anything highsec has to offer. So at best, we have parity there, combined with immense imbalance everywhere else, resulting in a total imbalance in favour of highsec (the fact that moons aren't just matched, but trivially out-earned by numerous highsec activities, and that moons are not universally available means that we don't even have parity… but let's go with your delusion for the time being).

Mongoo does not solve any problems — it's just an income source, like every other income source, that lets you buy things you can't/won't make for yourself. The reliance on moongoo shows that there is a problem; it does not make the problem go away.

…which is nice and all but not relevant to the case at hand. The reason people want nullsec industry buffs is because nullsec is on the weaker side of an imbalance — something that is blatantly obvious to anyone who has actually studied the mechanics involved. You're essentially making the “Ancient Aliens” argument: there is a (infinitesimally small) possibility that it is like this; therefore it is. Just because there are things that are not due to the obvious imbalance doesn't mean that nothing is due to it, or that the imbalance doesn't exist.

Nah. It's pretty much all an argument for balance.

…and his point is that it doesn't fix any problems at all, unless do that wealth conversion, in which case it no longer matters what the source of that wealth is. So the deal is: throw out the (ultimately incorrect) idea that mongoo “fixes” anything, and we can throw out the valid points of comparisons — such as missions — that show that this doesn't actually creates any balance at all.

The argument that moon goo fixes anything or that its value somehow balances up the massive industrial imbalance hinges on the assumption that it's very very valuable. The reality is that it's not — it's about as valuable as a single L4 mission system. So again, at best, it's just parity for that one item (at worst, and in actuality, it's not even that), which means it cannot counterbalance all the other industrial disadvantages of null

Nobody points it out because its not an issue and won't happen.

If we're changing the argument to complete wealth generation, you should also include ratting and plexing on null's balance sheet and missioning on high-sec's.

But always remember that the wealth/power to step out and shake up null sov has to come from SOMEWHERE. Maybe it should come from low-sec or NPC null, but we should never make it so Null Sov has so much wealth it can't be challenged by newcomers who have put in the time and effort *somewhere* to unleash the dogs of war upon null sov.