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Warfare & Tactics

 
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DO SOMETHING CCP, STOP BEING A SCARED B*TCH

First post
Author
Andre Vauban
Federal Defense Union
Gallente Federation
#181 - 2013-04-29 21:28:26 UTC
Xolve wrote:

It's a fun distraction, but the whole thing seems to 'entry level' to actually enjoy with High Skill points, removing larger scaled plexes (or making them really rare) was literally the bane of people who could fly things bigger than Frigates and Destroyers. I never cared about the warzone, loyalty points, farming or VP; I cared about shooting things, Fweddit devolved into a massive pve corp, so I left.


It has nothing to do with skillpoints and everything to due with available playtime and peoples definition of fun. I have 2 moros/ archon pilots and I'm working on the third. Two of my combat toons could easily fly supers if I choose to spend the isk on the fighter bomber/titan skillbooks and the ship. My problem is that I play Eve at exactly the same time everyday which is after the kids go to bed and after a little quality time with my wife. Given that, I still play between 2-4 hours a day. That leaves me in the situation where there isn't always something going on at the only time I can play Eve. If there is something going on, its fun to jump into a faction BS, T3, or a capital. If there isn't anything going on, I also have fun flying a destroyer or frigate. I have no patience to sit on a titan or wait in station docked up for something to happen, as I see that as wasting my limited playtime and it is just as fun to fight outnumbered in a FW plex in a frig/destroyer.

I'd love to do more of the big epic fights, but the more I understand that playstyle, the more I realize that you have to sacrifice the small gang in order to get it which is why I'm still in FW. If you want to play the game with the big boys, you need to be tethered to jabber 24x7 and ready to log in and deploy in a few minutes.

.

Cearain
Plus 10 NV
#182 - 2013-04-29 21:46:14 UTC  |  Edited by: Cearain
Crosi Wesdo wrote:
Cearain wrote:
I do all my pvp pretty much exlclusively in or at plexes. On average I would say I need to go about 5 systems to find someone running a plex. Often I will warp to plexes outside dscan range to find they are empty.


Hardly seems that rabbit plexing is out of control if there are 5 empty systems in a row.

Also, you are terrible at finding pvp.


They aren't being plexed for the 30 seconds to a minute that I go through there. But you can't draw any large conclusions from that. Even the busy systems typically do not have any plexes active at any given time. Thats why the lack of this information means pvpers have to waste allot of time defending their space.

As far as finding pvp. I get about 100-150 solo pvp kills a month. It could be better but Thats not too bad for the time I spend online.

Cearain wrote:



The idea behind fw sov war is that we are trying to win space for our faction.

Crosi Wesdo wrote:

Not really dude, maybe for a washed up roleplayer such as yourself.

The actual idea behind the current sov was is as a conflict driver and a mechanic for people to pay for their PvP. If there is a problem with the current mechanics, it is that it is now clearly possible for one side to failscade for an extended period of time. Some intricate suggestions about diminishing VP returns inverse to the tier reward for LP for winning sound interesting but might have other consequences like amarr taking a minmatar home system in a few hours of plexing because of their VP bonus in their losing state.

I know this is far too complicated for you too understand. If you want end game sov-war move to dull sec and pollute CAOD with your complete stupidity.


You seem a bit upset that you can't formulate an actual problem with giving pvpers notice when their complexes are being attacked. So in order to protect your rabbit plexers you just call me stupid. Nice.

The conflict driver in faction war is having both sides try to take sov in the same systems.

As far as tweaking vp amounts, its funny you say that is beyond me. I suggested that giving lp for defensive plexing might unbalance the system too much and instead they should tweak the vp amounts if one side was having trouble hitting higher tiers. Its ok youll catch up.

And threads like this one will continue spring up as long as fw sov remains a game of who can get the most rabbits on their side.

Make faction war occupancy pvp instead of pve https://forums.eveonline.com/default.aspx?g=posts&m=53815&#post53815

Deen Wispa
Sheriff.
Caldari Tactical Operations Command
#183 - 2013-04-29 21:53:42 UTC
Andre Vauban wrote:
Xolve wrote:

It's a fun distraction, but the whole thing seems to 'entry level' to actually enjoy with High Skill points, removing larger scaled plexes (or making them really rare) was literally the bane of people who could fly things bigger than Frigates and Destroyers. I never cared about the warzone, loyalty points, farming or VP; I cared about shooting things, Fweddit devolved into a massive pve corp, so I left.


It has nothing to do with skillpoints and everything to due with available playtime and peoples definition of fun. I have 2 moros/ archon pilots and I'm working on the third. Two of my combat toons could easily fly supers if I choose to spend the isk on the fighter bomber/titan skillbooks and the ship. My problem is that I play Eve at exactly the same time everyday which is after the kids go to bed and after a little quality time with my wife. Given that, I still play between 2-4 hours a day. That leaves me in the situation where there isn't always something going on at the only time I can play Eve. If there is something going on, its fun to jump into a faction BS, T3, or a capital. If there isn't anything going on, I also have fun flying a destroyer or frigate. I have no patience to sit on a titan or wait in station docked up for something to happen, as I see that as wasting my limited playtime and it is just as fun to fight outnumbered in a FW plex in a frig/destroyer.

I'd love to do more of the big epic fights, but the more I understand that playstyle, the more I realize that you have to sacrifice the small gang in order to get it which is why I'm still in FW. If you want to play the game with the big boys, you need to be tethered to jabber 24x7 and ready to log in and deploy in a few minutes.


I think Xolve is making the issue a bit too black and white and pitting Nullsec shiney fleets vs FW cheap fleets.

Andre makes a good point about how FW is conducive to people like him and I who have limited playtimes and don't have the patience to sit on a Titan. I used to play alot, but nowadays I can barely play twice a week due to RL priorities.

But Xolve also makes a good point about how FW has denigrated into mostly destroyers and below. And it has...for the most part. I just commented yesterday on comms how I have yet to do a proteus fleet in lord knows how long despite the fact that many of the skilled players in our corp can fly a proteus or T2 HAC easily. Sadly, the FW mechanics don't encourage us to bring out BCs and higher Ugh

High Five. Yeah! C'est La Eve .

Cearain
Plus 10 NV
#184 - 2013-04-29 22:01:44 UTC
Xolve wrote:
Muad 'dib wrote:
EDIT: also Xolve, how are you finding FW after this many months? oh wait never mind you left, question answered :P


It's a fun distraction, but the whole thing seems to 'entry level' to actually enjoy with High Skill points, removing larger scaled plexes (or making them really rare) was literally the bane of people who could fly things bigger than Frigates and Destroyers. I never cared about the warzone, loyalty points, farming or VP; I cared about shooting things, Fweddit devolved into a massive pve corp, so I left.

Because at it's core, that is what FW is, PVE. There's nothing wrong about posting about things you want fixed or are passionate about, it's just funny to me that the same people, post the same arguments, time and time again- if that effort was spent elsewhere they might see the fruits of their labor actually put to use, instead of smattering thread after thread with a mix of good and bad ideas that will never see the attention of the Developers.

There are people recently elected onto the CSM that actually care about FW, why band together with a few of your liked minded fellows and put something together to present to that CSM member, that given chance (Fozzie isn't done with FW) could present it at a round table/skype call/whatever.




I don't know that fweddit became a pve corp. But other than that, there is allot of truth in what you wrote.

FW sov is a pve game. It always was and that is why the same proposals keep coming up again and again.

There should be more larger plexes so people can occassionally trot out the BS fleet with cap support.

We had a csm who got behind some of the ideas and made fw better.(at least the plex npcs are no longer standing in the way of pvp) But Alas he got sidetracked with tweaking lp amounts and how the lp was paid instead of getting the mechanics to promote pvp.

Also I am not so sure ccp isn't aware of any of these threads. Part of the problem is allot of people are fine with fw sov remaining a pve game. I think you can see that in this thread. So its hard to get a consensus.

CCP has already indicated they would like to have notifications and timer rollbacks. Its just a matter of getting the community to stop quibbling and push them to do it sooner rather than later.

Unfortunately these threads often end up in irrelevant name calling instead of any sort of constructive analysis of proposals.

Make faction war occupancy pvp instead of pve https://forums.eveonline.com/default.aspx?g=posts&m=53815&#post53815

Cosmo Raata
Pandemic Horde Inc.
Pandemic Horde
#185 - 2013-04-29 23:58:35 UTC
I'm still baffled by the defense of FW.

It doesn't encourage pvp, people simply pvp in spite of it.

It doesn't encourage teamwork, people simply gravitate toward social activities.

It doesn't reward risk, people can avoid risk as much as they want.


Does it work as it? Sure, but being satisfied with it is like enjoying a stale sandwich without meat or condiments. Yeah, its edible, but why would you want to eat it or at least complain about what you got that is somehow called a sandwich.
Xolve
State War Academy
Caldari State
#186 - 2013-04-30 00:00:42 UTC  |  Edited by: Xolve
Deen Wispa wrote:
But Xolve also makes a good point about how FW has denigrated into mostly destroyers and below. And it has...for the most part. I just commented yesterday on comms how I have yet to do a proteus fleet in lord knows how long despite the fact that many of the skilled players in our corp can fly a proteus or T2 HAC easily. Sadly, the FW mechanics don't encourage us to bring out BCs and higher Ugh


I mentioned a few things to someone who supposedly had Fozzies ear (and I've talked to him elsewhere) but essentially:

-Give FW Plexes with MINIMUM ship types to capture (BC+, T2 Cruiser+) etc. to give players in the higher SP echelons something to do, many people including those in NullSec find flying Frigates/Dessies to be a daunting task when your clone upgrade costs 40m+ (I'm not complaining about isk, just re-voicing legitimate concerns). Pre-Inferno Larges and the smaller Installations/Facilities were actually fun because you could do things like Tech III fleets, Use T2 ships, and what not; and they are just simply too few and far between these days

-Require plexes to have the largest allowable ship present to start the countdown. Seriously.

-Moving the warzone from instant LP to a 'Campaign' or phase mode to capture X amount of systems and make payouts afterwards based on VP/Participation, this would instantly remove the bot farmers, reward faction loyalty, and actually have create cause for people to stay up longer than we care to talk about and make warzone pushes. After each 'phase', reset the warzone.

It sounds a little silly at first, but it's a more competitive approach to things, and would allow for secondary payouts/contests/metrics for secondary payouts/awards/medals. It certainly seems more fun on paper than orbit this button in this plex, then that button, and this one, then come back in 45 minutes after repeating the same in this system next door until our heads explode and/or we kill ourselves from repetitious boredom/insanity.
Cearain
Plus 10 NV
#187 - 2013-04-30 00:36:51 UTC
Xolve wrote:
Deen Wispa wrote:
But Xolve also makes a good point about how FW has denigrated into mostly destroyers and below. And it has...for the most part. I just commented yesterday on comms how I have yet to do a proteus fleet in lord knows how long despite the fact that many of the skilled players in our corp can fly a proteus or T2 HAC easily. Sadly, the FW mechanics don't encourage us to bring out BCs and higher Ugh


I mentioned a few things to someone who supposedly had Fozzies ear (and I've talked to him elsewhere) but essentially:

-Give FW Plexes with MINIMUM ship types to capture (BC+, T2 Cruiser+) etc. to give players in the higher SP echelons something to do, many people including those in NullSec find flying Frigates/Dessies to be a daunting task when your clone upgrade costs 40m+ (I'm not complaining about isk, just re-voicing legitimate concerns). Pre-Inferno Larges and the smaller Installations/Facilities were actually fun because you could do things like Tech III fleets, Use T2 ships, and what not; and they are just simply too few and far between these days

-Require plexes to have the largest allowable ship present to start the countdown. Seriously..


Chatgris suggested this.
Couple of points:

The cost of a clone is not so daunting in low sec with no bubbles.

But in low sec we do tend to lose allot of ships compared to null sec. So its really the cost of the ship/mods that is the bigger issue. The reason I don't fly bigger ships is due to insta lock gate camps. They catch everything but I don't mind losing a frigate or dessie. But when I am throwing away 100ish mill for a non fight its no fun.

Xolve wrote:

-Moving the warzone from instant LP to a 'Campaign' or phase mode to capture X amount of systems and make payouts afterwards based on VP/Participation, this would instantly remove the bot farmers, reward faction loyalty, and actually have create cause for people to stay up longer than we care to talk about and make warzone pushes. After each 'phase', reset the warzone.

It sounds a little silly at first, but it's a more competitive approach to things, and would allow for secondary payouts/contests/metrics for secondary payouts/awards/medals. It certainly seems more fun on paper than orbit this button in this plex, then that button, and this one, then come back in 45 minutes after repeating the same in this system next door until our heads explode and/or we kill ourselves from repetitious boredom/insanity.



I am not sure what you mean here. But the cashout system was sort of like that. I liked the cashout system, but I think I am the only one who liked it.

Make faction war occupancy pvp instead of pve https://forums.eveonline.com/default.aspx?g=posts&m=53815&#post53815

Cosmo Raata
Pandemic Horde Inc.
Pandemic Horde
#188 - 2013-04-30 00:49:17 UTC
Xolve wrote:
Deen Wispa wrote:
But Xolve also makes a good point about how FW has denigrated into mostly destroyers and below. And it has...for the most part. I just commented yesterday on comms how I have yet to do a proteus fleet in lord knows how long despite the fact that many of the skilled players in our corp can fly a proteus or T2 HAC easily. Sadly, the FW mechanics don't encourage us to bring out BCs and higher Ugh


I mentioned a few things to someone who supposedly had Fozzies ear (and I've talked to him elsewhere) but essentially:

-Give FW Plexes with MINIMUM ship types to capture (BC+, T2 Cruiser+) etc. to give players in the higher SP echelons something to do, many people including those in NullSec find flying Frigates/Dessies to be a daunting task when your clone upgrade costs 40m+ (I'm not complaining about isk, just re-voicing legitimate concerns). Pre-Inferno Larges and the smaller Installations/Facilities were actually fun because you could do things like Tech III fleets, Use T2 ships, and what not; and they are just simply too few and far between these days

-Require plexes to have the largest allowable ship present to start the countdown. Seriously.

-Moving the warzone from instant LP to a 'Campaign' or phase mode to capture X amount of systems and make payouts afterwards based on VP/Participation, this would instantly remove the bot farmers, reward faction loyalty, and actually have create cause for people to stay up longer than we care to talk about and make warzone pushes. After each 'phase', reset the warzone.

It sounds a little silly at first, but it's a more competitive approach to things, and would allow for secondary payouts/contests/metrics for secondary payouts/awards/medals. It certainly seems more fun on paper than orbit this button in this plex, then that button, and this one, then come back in 45 minutes after repeating the same in this system next door until our heads explode and/or we kill ourselves from repetitious boredom/insanity.



See, I knew you had some ideas to make it better in ya. Never was arguing that my ideas were awesome, just that you don't need to put FW under the microscope to realize its execution is below average.
Cearain
Plus 10 NV
#189 - 2013-04-30 00:49:24 UTC
Taoist Dragon wrote:
. The fact that 'rabbit' plexer exsist show fundementally that there isn't the playerbase to support a full pvp sov.


There are 19,000 characters in faction war. There are only 170 systems. Pvpers don't need more players they need better tools. 7-10 active pvpers online could prevent all the rabbits in a warzone if they had the right intel tools and rollbacks.

Make faction war occupancy pvp instead of pve https://forums.eveonline.com/default.aspx?g=posts&m=53815&#post53815

Taoist Dragon
Okata Syndicate
#190 - 2013-04-30 00:54:10 UTC
Cosmo Raata wrote:
I'm still baffled by the defense of FW.

It doesn't encourage pvp, people simply pvp in spite of it.

It doesn't encourage teamwork, people simply gravitate toward social activities.

It doesn't reward risk, people can avoid risk as much as they want.


Does it work as it? Sure, but being satisfied with it is like enjoying a stale sandwich without meat or condiments. Yeah, its edible, but why would you want to eat it or at least complain about what you got that is somehow called a sandwich.



FW is differnet from when it was purely for fun (before inferno LP for plex system). The system has changed. It sounds like the system has changed to something that doesn't follow what you want it to be. Maybe you need to find somewhere else to be flying.

TBH all the above applies to 90% of eve.

Only players can encourage pvp. even through there are large number of eve players there are not enough to have pvp only mechanics from any one area. Having a requirement to kill other players for set rewards etc just can't work with such a low population. PVP will ALWAYS be on the fringe of pve or a direct conflict of players. The game just 'allows' it to happen pretty much anywhere but cannot actively encourage it.

Encouraging teamwork doesn't work as all it does is feed the blob which pretty much everyone is against... vOv

The risk/reward profile is backwards in Eve and has been for a number of years. The rewards for low risk play are just too great. This is a major area that needs to be address IMO. But you will never be able to 'force' peopl to look for pvp. See my above comment. And risk avoidance is ingrained in the mind of most 'normal' people, why expect it to be different in EVE?

That is the Way, the Tao.

Balance is everything.

Cosmo Raata
Pandemic Horde Inc.
Pandemic Horde
#191 - 2013-04-30 01:15:58 UTC
Taoist Dragon wrote:
Cosmo Raata wrote:
I'm still baffled by the defense of FW.

It doesn't encourage pvp, people simply pvp in spite of it.

It doesn't encourage teamwork, people simply gravitate toward social activities.

It doesn't reward risk, people can avoid risk as much as they want.


Does it work as it? Sure, but being satisfied with it is like enjoying a stale sandwich without meat or condiments. Yeah, its edible, but why would you want to eat it or at least complain about what you got that is somehow called a sandwich.



FW is differnet from when it was purely for fun (before inferno LP for plex system). The system has changed. It sounds like the system has changed to something that doesn't follow what you want it to be. Maybe you need to find somewhere else to be flying.

TBH all the above applies to 90% of eve.

Only players can encourage pvp. even through there are large number of eve players there are not enough to have pvp only mechanics from any one area. Having a requirement to kill other players for set rewards etc just can't work with such a low population. PVP will ALWAYS be on the fringe of pve or a direct conflict of players. The game just 'allows' it to happen pretty much anywhere but cannot actively encourage it.

Encouraging teamwork doesn't work as all it does is feed the blob which pretty much everyone is against... vOv

The risk/reward profile is backwards in Eve and has been for a number of years. The rewards for low risk play are just too great. This is a major area that needs to be address IMO. But you will never be able to 'force' peopl to look for pvp. See my above comment. And risk avoidance is ingrained in the mind of most 'normal' people, why expect it to be different in EVE?



You're right. Risk vs Reward is way out of whack. I wonder if this had something to do with CCP Oveur leaving, as he used to be the killdeathwtfpwned Dev and had been silent for years before his eventual quitting.

Honestly though, I still think it comes down to the fact that CCP is unwilling to risk subscriptions. They would rather make a game in the soft center than commit to one side or the other. The game had greatness in it before with lots of bugs and amateur programming, Now its polished, pretty, and soft & cuddly.
Cearain
Plus 10 NV
#192 - 2013-04-30 01:56:11 UTC
Taoist Dragon wrote:
Cosmo Raata wrote:
I'm still baffled by the defense of FW.

It doesn't encourage pvp, people simply pvp in spite of it.

It doesn't encourage teamwork, people simply gravitate toward social activities.

It doesn't reward risk, people can avoid risk as much as they want.


Does it work as it? Sure, but being satisfied with it is like enjoying a stale sandwich without meat or condiments. Yeah, its edible, but why would you want to eat it or at least complain about what you got that is somehow called a sandwich.



FW is differnet from when it was purely for fun (before inferno LP for plex system). The system has changed. It sounds like the system has changed to something that doesn't follow what you want it to be. Maybe you need to find somewhere else to be flying.

TBH all the above applies to 90% of eve.

Only players can encourage pvp. even through there are large number of eve players there are not enough to have pvp only mechanics from any one area. Having a requirement to kill other players for set rewards etc just can't work with such a low population. PVP will ALWAYS be on the fringe of pve or a direct conflict of players. The game just 'allows' it to happen pretty much anywhere but cannot actively encourage it.


Sure they can. Rollbacks and notifications and we will have fw sov as a pvp mechanic.

Make faction war occupancy pvp instead of pve https://forums.eveonline.com/default.aspx?g=posts&m=53815&#post53815

Cearain
Plus 10 NV
#193 - 2013-04-30 02:04:37 UTC
Cosmo Raata wrote:

Honestly though, I still think it comes down to the fact that CCP is unwilling to risk subscriptions. They would rather make a game in the soft center than commit to one side or the other. The game had greatness in it before with lots of bugs and amateur programming, Now its polished, pretty, and soft & cuddly.



I wouldn't recomend anything that would cost subscriptions. If they made fw sov war a pvp mechanic the farmers would just run fw missions. I actually don't mind that people like to do pve in eve. I occassionally did pve in eve. Its occassionally fun to see just how fast your new tech 2 guns can cut through rats. I am not against all pve.

Its just that all the mechanics don't need to be pve. There are already allot of pve mechanics. Sleepers, incursions, belt ratting, missions in high low and null sec, Faction war missions, cosmos missions, epic arc missions etc etc. Having one pvp mechanic that is different than the sov null sec blob mechanic can only expand the subscription base. If they get it right it will expand the player base by a whole lot.

Make faction war occupancy pvp instead of pve https://forums.eveonline.com/default.aspx?g=posts&m=53815&#post53815

Taoist Dragon
Okata Syndicate
#194 - 2013-04-30 02:29:53 UTC
Cearain wrote:
Taoist Dragon wrote:
Cosmo Raata wrote:
I'm still baffled by the defense of FW.

It doesn't encourage pvp, people simply pvp in spite of it.

It doesn't encourage teamwork, people simply gravitate toward social activities.

It doesn't reward risk, people can avoid risk as much as they want.


Does it work as it? Sure, but being satisfied with it is like enjoying a stale sandwich without meat or condiments. Yeah, its edible, but why would you want to eat it or at least complain about what you got that is somehow called a sandwich.



FW is differnet from when it was purely for fun (before inferno LP for plex system). The system has changed. It sounds like the system has changed to something that doesn't follow what you want it to be. Maybe you need to find somewhere else to be flying.

TBH all the above applies to 90% of eve.

Only players can encourage pvp. even through there are large number of eve players there are not enough to have pvp only mechanics from any one area. Having a requirement to kill other players for set rewards etc just can't work with such a low population. PVP will ALWAYS be on the fringe of pve or a direct conflict of players. The game just 'allows' it to happen pretty much anywhere but cannot actively encourage it.


Sure they can. Rollbacks and notifications and we will have fw sov as a pvp mechanic.


Rollbacks I agree with but notification will do jack squat IMO. Utilmately neither of these make it pvp based as it still requires you shoot red crosses and orbit a buttan. vOv

That is the Way, the Tao.

Balance is everything.

Akiko Mayaki
Toads of War
#195 - 2013-04-30 04:33:25 UTC
Cearain wrote:


OK so you are taking the position that the notifications will be ignored. Keep in mind that there are plenty of people who post that far from being ignored they will be watched closely not only by miltia but by neutrals with an alt in fw.

Moreover I know for a fact that I would love to know everyone plexing within 3 jumps of me. I love plex pvp. I am not the only one either. There are plenty of people who will respond to these notifications. Maybe you won't but plenty of people will.

Rabbits stick around because they can continue to plex without anyone coming to fight them. There is a reason they prefer systems with few in local. Very few will even know they are there. When you combine notifications with timer rollbacks you have a system where 5 or 6 pvp pilots spread out can easilly make sure that every plex is fought over.


You are conflating the benefits of rollbacks and a notification system. I would love rollbacks and indeed think they would cut down on the number of people flying farmer fits.

However, back to the notification system, if you love to know who's within 3 jumps of you, why don't you use any of the player driven tools that everyone else in eve uses to find their targets, intel channels immediately come to mind, plus the fact that you know, you could just fly those 3 jumps your self.

Again it is not the case that some group of farmers are doing incredible amounts of damage from a place we can't find. It is the case that farmers are plexing systems that the MILITIA DOES NOT CARE ABOUT because they are highly irrelevant to the warzone in its current form. Furthermore those pilots actually interested in real pvp are not going to fly 6 jumps to fight someone that clearly does not want to pvp, aka sitting 30km off the warp in with a cloak, stabs and already aligned.

The sole reason that it makes sense for them to fly these fits/behave in this manner is that there is no disincentive to them warping out. They know that a real pvper is not going to unwind a 28 minute button in some backroad system while the farmer sits in a safe/moves on to another plex. Timer rollbacks will fix this. To argue notifications will help , stipulates that people are struggling to "find" the farmers. This is not the case for me and I hope anyone with a functioning sense of how to find targets/ the bare basics of organization within their militia.

As someone else said, the warzones, particularly Gall/Call are far too large for the playerbase, there is no ability, incentive or desire to cover the entirety of the systems.




Cearain wrote:


The idea behind fw sov war is that we are trying to win space for our faction. I know very few people care about it now. But that is largely because they see how silly it is to try to resist the rabbit hordes. If the fw sov game turned into a small gang pvp heavan, that would change. It would be something to brag about winning. Now its not.

So now in its broken state players either move out of the warzone completely, or they just pretty much care about 1 or 2 systems that they base out of. No one cares about the other 90% of the war zone because we don't have the tools to deal with rabbit plexers.

The notification system does not need to know your personal priorities. But for those who want to fight for sov for their militia it would be a great tool. Maybe you are not interested in the sov war and just want to hold one system to dock your ships. Thats fine you can still do that. But I can guarantee you that there are plenty of fw pvpers who love plex fighting and would love to know where they need to go to fight for the complexes. What supports this claim?




I love plex fighting too, as does everyone who isn't here for the farming. Having a system that tells you where the stabbed condor is, flown buy a guy with 0 inclination to fight, is not going to help those that "love to fight over plexes," how can you not step back and see this?

Since you brought it up, I'm the alt of a Gallmill player who I assure you is deeply interested in how far we can put our boot down the Caldari throat in terms of sov war. Since December I have fought everywhere; defending Nenn, attacking Enaluri the first time, attacking Eha, attacking Rakapas and OMS, defending in Ikoskio and Kehjari as caldari tried to interrupt the push for complete control of the WZ, defending Eha, defending Nenn the second time and again pushing on Enaluri and later Innia.

I am enjoying as much small gang pvp as I can afford quite frankly, and plenty of solo too, I on a personal level, and my militia more generally, dont give two ***** about the farmers and have learnt how to fashion the warzone to our liking. Perhaps your assumptions are more grounded in the fact you have only participated in militias that fail pretty hard on the organizational side. Again, your proposed system would have been ignored since december, "come join our fleet of 20 so we can fight this callmill gang of 20 in Ena" versus "dipshit farmer that never hangs around for a fight is plexing in Deven"... like... wow.

Perhap Caldari/Ammar failcascade at stages in the farming cycle, but Gallente didn't, none of our people "moved out of the warzone" despite caldaris resurgence this year.





Veshta Yoshida
PIE Inc.
Khimi Harar
#196 - 2013-04-30 05:38:21 UTC
Akiko Mayaki wrote:
...Perhap Caldari/Ammar failcascade at stages in the farming cycle, but Gallente didn't, none of our people "moved out of the warzone" despite caldaris resurgence this year.

Completely different animals, Amarr didn't get even have access to 70% of the warzone until the e-patch and geography remains a joke compared to Black Rise which was specifically tailored/designed for FW .. much better mind you, but still a huge advantage for the Rens rabble

Then you have raw numbers, missiles have always been the "best" ratting/missioning weapon system and since starting Caldari saves you a few days a lot of new characters go that route .. isn't long before standings prevent anything but. Caldari comeback was guaranteed .
Then you have umpteen adjacent null entities and large'ish pirate corps roaming the Caldari/Gallente zone giving otherwise bored pilots something to do when the enemy is on vacation.

Caldari failscaded due to people leaving in disgust over the timing of the vulnerability-farm e-patch and the CCP bias it was taken to represent and rebounded due to sheer inertia of numbers. Gallente never left because there was always something to shoot and there are a as far as i know a lot of medium.large well organized sized corps enrolled further reinforcing the 'no lack of of activity' trend.

Amarr never had numbers, it was always an uphill battle. Introduction of LP at a time when the Winmatar-fad was in full swing pushed that to its extreme as farming reared its ugly head focusing on the high value of rust products.
Amarr is comprised primarily of individuals and small corps making any progress 100% dependent on inter-ego cooperation which can be rather difficult to keep up, it is why the addition of FWeddit had/has such a huge impact .. Minmatar on the other hand has same kind of medium/large size corps as Gallente, that together with the black/white lore (Evil Slaver vs. Valiant Freemen) and the "dwarf Buffet's wallet size in a week!" caused by LP made the whole affair rather one-sided.

Since anyone with half a braincell (ie. CCP apparently not included) saw what would happen were unlimited ISK thrown into the mix, we urged/begged/pleaded for CCP to introduce diminishing returns at the same time to make steam-rolling a near impossibility .. and got squat (LP tax is laughable considering the amount being generated).
Now add a plexing system/tiers where a steam-roller gets more from d-plexing a 1% contested system than the enemy gets o-plexing, a system that can be abused to hell and back by gunless stabbed/cloaked alts and station lock-outs are determined by said abuse of gameplay.

They messed up. They listened to the people whose interests were wallet based rather than fun/pew based. They got lazy/frustrated and wanted us to shut up so they gave the 'majority' what they wanted; Infinite risk-free ISK and cheap faction bling.
X Gallentius
Black Eagle1
#197 - 2013-04-30 05:41:38 UTC
Akiko Mayaki wrote:

Perhap Caldari/Ammar failcascade at stages in the farming cycle, but Gallente didn't, none of our people "moved out of the warzone" despite caldaris resurgence this year.
(Real men fly Gallente hulls. That's why.)
IbanezLaney
The Church of Awesome
#198 - 2013-04-30 06:13:36 UTC
Xolve wrote:

-Require plexes to have the largest allowable ship present to start the countdown. Seriously.



Great idea up to Mediums.

But wouldn't this mean large plex needs a Titan to land in it just to start the timer?

Xolve
State War Academy
Caldari State
#199 - 2013-04-30 06:17:17 UTC
Cearain wrote:
I am not sure what you mean here. But the cashout system was sort of like that. I liked the cashout system, but I think I am the only one who liked it.



Essentially, it would be a campaign system, where you would get a random 'scenario' and you would push to gain control of X hostile systems without losing y friendly systems. Once one side completed a 'phase', warzone control would reset, and another would start. Payouts would be done by activity in the warzone both through Plexing and PvP vs FW War Targets (both awarding Victory points on some scale I don't feel like putting together because it's not really the point).

In addition, new plex types would ideally be featured with minimum ship requirements (Large Strongholds, Smallest allowable ship, Battlecruiser) as well as requiring all plexes without minimum ship requirements to require the largest shiptype possible in the plex for the time to start ticking down.

The current system gives too much freedom to the individual with no loyalty to a specific faction, this idea would reward those people that have stayed true to a specific faction, would be a little less solo friendly (outside of novice/smalls), and would reduce the impact farmers have on the warzone; if the war in FW is meant to wage on forever, why not have it simulated in this manner as to not have it mimic nullsec favoring the side with the most farmers.
IbanezLaney
The Church of Awesome
#200 - 2013-04-30 06:39:44 UTC
Akiko Mayaki wrote:

Perhap Caldari/Ammar failcascade at stages in the farming cycle, but Gallente didn't, none of our people "moved out of the warzone" despite caldaris resurgence this year.




It was the Minmatar hitting a high tier that changed everything for Caldari.
The farmers were plexing for Caldari until the Minnies tier was more profitable and they all swapped over.
I admit - Caldari were hoping to hang onto the farmers a bit longer but luck/timing wasn't on our side.


So the 'failscade' was really just a huge manpower shift to Minmatar.




ALSO:
The Gallente can counter any Caldari plan before it starts with the known intel leak we have.