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New Eden Trade Group seeking fully collateralized loans (CANCELLED, for now)
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Manny Moons
University of Caille
Gallente Federation
#21 - 2013-04-29 18:20:16 UTC
The Fukuzawa wrote:
Manny Moons wrote:
So part of your business model is speculation.


All of that was directed at answering your question.

Thank you for taking the time to answer. My conclusion was based on the fact that you do not sell today because you think prices are going up in the future. If you are right, you will be able to pay the interest on the loan, recover the collateral, and sell at a profit. If you are wrong, your profit will be lower or non-existent, reducing your chances of paying the interest on the loan, while at the same time, the value of the collateral decreases, reducing the safety of your lender's investment. In essence, you are borrowing money to speculate on the market. There's nothing wrong with that, and you may very well be right. And I don't suggest that you are a bad risk. I'm sure the general trend of price inflation is what leads those with surplus isk to look for investments. I'm only trying to understand different business models. I am a newbie industrialist, and from day one I have heard it stressed that minerals are not free, don't confuse manufacturing profits with mining or trading profits, etc. In my mind there is a difference between trading and speculating, although most traders probably do some of each.
The Fukuzawa
Doomheim
#22 - 2013-04-29 18:48:38 UTC  |  Edited by: The Fukuzawa
Manny Moons wrote:
The Fukuzawa wrote:
Manny Moons wrote:
So part of your business model is speculation.


All of that was directed at answering your question.

Thank you for taking the time to answer. My conclusion was based on the fact that you do not sell today because you think prices are going up in the future. If you are right, you will be able to pay the interest on the loan, recover the collateral, and sell at a profit. If you are wrong, your profit will be lower or non-existent, reducing your chances of paying the interest on the loan, while at the same time, the value of the collateral decreases, reducing the safety of your lender's investment. In essence, you are borrowing money to speculate on the market. There's nothing wrong with that, and you may very well be right. And I don't suggest that you are a bad risk. I'm sure the general trend of price inflation is what leads those with surplus isk to look for investments. I'm only trying to understand different business models. I am a newbie industrialist, and from day one I have heard it stressed that minerals are not free, don't confuse manufacturing profits with mining or trading profits, etc. In my mind there is a difference between trading and speculating, although most traders probably do some of each.



Honestly mate, i see your point of view, but what you mentioned above is not our business model. We are not speculating on the prices of ships. We manufacture cap ships and sale many, that said we only sale ships for a good price so inventory builds up. The reason why we offer these ships as collateral is so we can roll the value of the ships back into the market, having billions in cap ships sitting in our inventory doesnt help our bottom line. Another thing you need to remember is investors can cancel their loan at any time penalty free, so if for whatever reason the value of their collateral starts to decrease they can get out asap.

Not to say we do not speculate, but the items we are currently speculating/manipulating and are planning on manipulating are kept secret.

! ! ! New Eden Trade Group is paying monthly interest to investors, contact me if interested ! ! !

If you already assume we are scammers without looking at what we offer objectively, go ahead and F*** off.

Thank you, that is all.
Alex Grison
Grison Universal
#23 - 2013-04-30 03:44:58 UTC  |  Edited by: Alex Grison
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yes
Bad Bobby
Bring Me Sunshine
In Tea We Trust
#24 - 2013-04-30 08:09:10 UTC
The Fukuzawa wrote:
Manny Moons wrote:
The Fukuzawa wrote:
Manny Moons wrote:
So part of your business model is speculation.


All of that was directed at answering your question.

Thank you for taking the time to answer. My conclusion was based on the fact that you do not sell today because you think prices are going up in the future. If you are right, you will be able to pay the interest on the loan, recover the collateral, and sell at a profit. If you are wrong, your profit will be lower or non-existent, reducing your chances of paying the interest on the loan, while at the same time, the value of the collateral decreases, reducing the safety of your lender's investment. In essence, you are borrowing money to speculate on the market. There's nothing wrong with that, and you may very well be right. And I don't suggest that you are a bad risk. I'm sure the general trend of price inflation is what leads those with surplus isk to look for investments. I'm only trying to understand different business models. I am a newbie industrialist, and from day one I have heard it stressed that minerals are not free, don't confuse manufacturing profits with mining or trading profits, etc. In my mind there is a difference between trading and speculating, although most traders probably do some of each.



Honestly mate, i see your point of view, but what you mentioned above is not our business model. We are not speculating on the prices of ships. We manufacture cap ships and sale many, that said we only sale ships for a good price so inventory builds up. The reason why we offer these ships as collateral is so we can roll the value of the ships back into the market, having billions in cap ships sitting in our inventory doesnt help our bottom line. Another thing you need to remember is investors can cancel their loan at any time penalty free, so if for whatever reason the value of their collateral starts to decrease they can get out asap.

Not to say we do not speculate, but the items we are currently speculating/manipulating and are planning on manipulating are kept secret.

It certainly is speculation of one sort or another.

NETG has built (or purchased) a number of freighters. Those freighters have been steadily dropping in value for approximately two months. NETG has decided not to sell these freighters, but to hold on to them. But rather than actually holding them (which would expose NETG to risk should their value continue to drop) they have decided to pass them off as collateral. As a result the risk of further devaluation is carried, at least in part, by their investors. Whether they are willing to default out of this should things go bad or not remains to be seen.

Personally, I would have sold off the freighters (they are still profitable against pre-decline build cost) for a small manufacturing profit, re-purchased them when the market bottoms out and then sell them off again when the market bounces back up.
Secret Squirrell
Allied Press Intergalactic
#25 - 2013-04-30 14:51:25 UTC
I would be willing to invest 1.1B for a Thanatos as collateral; based on the current mineral build cost on well researched BPs, that works out to 101-103% collateralization. Given the potential implications of the ore changes on Capital ship production, which presents a significant downside risk to those holding a carrier as a store of value, I think this is a generous offer.
Alex Grison
Grison Universal
#26 - 2013-04-30 16:10:03 UTC  |  Edited by: Alex Grison
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yes
Varius Xeral
Doomheim
#27 - 2013-04-30 16:26:38 UTC
I'd like to discuss your private parts, if you know what I'm saying.

Official Representative of The Nullsec Zealot Cabal
The Fukuzawa
Doomheim
#28 - 2013-04-30 17:50:58 UTC  |  Edited by: The Fukuzawa
Bad Bobby wrote:
The Fukuzawa wrote:
Manny Moons wrote:
The Fukuzawa wrote:
Manny Moons wrote:
So part of your business model is speculation.


All of that was directed at answering your question.

Thank you for taking the time to answer. My conclusion was based on the fact that you do not sell today because you think prices are going up in the future. If you are right, you will be able to pay the interest on the loan, recover the collateral, and sell at a profit. If you are wrong, your profit will be lower or non-existent, reducing your chances of paying the interest on the loan, while at the same time, the value of the collateral decreases, reducing the safety of your lender's investment. In essence, you are borrowing money to speculate on the market. There's nothing wrong with that, and you may very well be right. And I don't suggest that you are a bad risk. I'm sure the general trend of price inflation is what leads those with surplus isk to look for investments. I'm only trying to understand different business models. I am a newbie industrialist, and from day one I have heard it stressed that minerals are not free, don't confuse manufacturing profits with mining or trading profits, etc. In my mind there is a difference between trading and speculating, although most traders probably do some of each.



Honestly mate, i see your point of view, but what you mentioned above is not our business model. We are not speculating on the prices of ships. We manufacture cap ships and sale many, that said we only sale ships for a good price so inventory builds up. The reason why we offer these ships as collateral is so we can roll the value of the ships back into the market, having billions in cap ships sitting in our inventory doesnt help our bottom line. Another thing you need to remember is investors can cancel their loan at any time penalty free, so if for whatever reason the value of their collateral starts to decrease they can get out asap.

Not to say we do not speculate, but the items we are currently speculating/manipulating and are planning on manipulating are kept secret.

It certainly is speculation of one sort or another.

NETG has built (or purchased) a number of freighters. Those freighters have been steadily dropping in value for approximately two months. NETG has decided not to sell these freighters, but to hold on to them. But rather than actually holding them (which would expose NETG to risk should their value continue to drop) they have decided to pass them off as collateral. As a result the risk of further devaluation is carried, at least in part, by their investors. Whether they are willing to default out of this should things go bad or not remains to be seen.

Personally, I would have sold off the freighters (they are still profitable against pre-decline build cost) for a small manufacturing profit, re-purchased them when the market bottoms out and then sell them off again when the market bounces back up.


I don't think I can be anymore clear, we are not speculating carriers or freighters. We sell these types of ships weekly whether values are low or high. For example, we simply produce or acquire more chimeras than we can sell in the regions they are located in for a decent price. So we use the extra chimera inventory as collateral until we deplete the stock on the market. That is why NETG holds the right to cancel loans, so we can free up the chimeras used as collateral and place them on the market when needed.

! ! ! New Eden Trade Group is paying monthly interest to investors, contact me if interested ! ! !

If you already assume we are scammers without looking at what we offer objectively, go ahead and F*** off.

Thank you, that is all.
Bad Bobby
Bring Me Sunshine
In Tea We Trust
#29 - 2013-04-30 18:05:16 UTC
The Fukuzawa wrote:
I don't think I can be anymore clear, we are not speculating carriers or freighters. We sell these types of ships weekly whether values are low or high. For example, we simply produce or acquire more chimeras than we can sell in the regions they are located in for a decent price. So we use the extra chimera inventory as collateral until we deplete the stock on the market. That is why NETG holds the right to cancel loans, so we can free up the chimeras used as collateral and place them on the market when needed.

Well, that post was already a bit clearer than you had provided previously.

You put up regional buy orders for these items. The ones that land in good locations you sell quickly. The ones that land out in the boondocks you put out as collateral for loans. You then use the loaned isk to buy more stuff. When it is convenient to do so, you recover the collateral and sell it as well.

Is that it?
The Fukuzawa
Doomheim
#30 - 2013-04-30 18:25:07 UTC  |  Edited by: The Fukuzawa
Bad Bobby wrote:
The Fukuzawa wrote:
I don't think I can be anymore clear, we are not speculating carriers or freighters. We sell these types of ships weekly whether values are low or high. For example, we simply produce or acquire more chimeras than we can sell in the regions they are located in for a decent price. So we use the extra chimera inventory as collateral until we deplete the stock on the market. That is why NETG holds the right to cancel loans, so we can free up the chimeras used as collateral and place them on the market when needed.

Well, that post was already a bit clearer than you had provided previously.

You put up regional buy orders for these items. The ones that land in good locations you sell quickly. The ones that land out in the boondocks you put out as collateral for loans. You then use the loaned isk to buy more stuff. When it is convenient to do so, you recover the collateral and sell it as well.

Is that it?


Nope, we manufacture the majority of ships and move them when needed. Also buy some others via contract and ships channel. All ships are in good locations.

! ! ! New Eden Trade Group is paying monthly interest to investors, contact me if interested ! ! !

If you already assume we are scammers without looking at what we offer objectively, go ahead and F*** off.

Thank you, that is all.
Blueprint Seller
Bring Me Sunshine
#31 - 2013-04-30 18:52:54 UTC
The Fukuzawa wrote:
Bad Bobby wrote:
The Fukuzawa wrote:
I don't think I can be anymore clear, we are not speculating carriers or freighters. We sell these types of ships weekly whether values are low or high. For example, we simply produce or acquire more chimeras than we can sell in the regions they are located in for a decent price. So we use the extra chimera inventory as collateral until we deplete the stock on the market. That is why NETG holds the right to cancel loans, so we can free up the chimeras used as collateral and place them on the market when needed.

Well, that post was already a bit clearer than you had provided previously.

You put up regional buy orders for these items. The ones that land in good locations you sell quickly. The ones that land out in the boondocks you put out as collateral for loans. You then use the loaned isk to buy more stuff. When it is convenient to do so, you recover the collateral and sell it as well.

Is that it?


Nope, we manufacture the majority of ships and move them when needed. Also buy some others via contract and ships channel. All ships are in good locations.

BB, I think you are attributing too much finesse to this.

The Fukuzawa, it sounds like you need to improve your stock management.
The Fukuzawa
Doomheim
#32 - 2013-04-30 19:21:49 UTC
Blueprint Seller wrote:
The Fukuzawa wrote:
Bad Bobby wrote:
The Fukuzawa wrote:
I don't think I can be anymore clear, we are not speculating carriers or freighters. We sell these types of ships weekly whether values are low or high. For example, we simply produce or acquire more chimeras than we can sell in the regions they are located in for a decent price. So we use the extra chimera inventory as collateral until we deplete the stock on the market. That is why NETG holds the right to cancel loans, so we can free up the chimeras used as collateral and place them on the market when needed.

Well, that post was already a bit clearer than you had provided previously.

You put up regional buy orders for these items. The ones that land in good locations you sell quickly. The ones that land out in the boondocks you put out as collateral for loans. You then use the loaned isk to buy more stuff. When it is convenient to do so, you recover the collateral and sell it as well.

Is that it?


Nope, we manufacture the majority of ships and move them when needed. Also buy some others via contract and ships channel. All ships are in good locations.

BB, I think you are attributing too much finesse to this.

The Fukuzawa, it sounds like you need to improve your stock management.



Define stock management

! ! ! New Eden Trade Group is paying monthly interest to investors, contact me if interested ! ! !

If you already assume we are scammers without looking at what we offer objectively, go ahead and F*** off.

Thank you, that is all.
Alex Grison
Grison Universal
#33 - 2013-04-30 20:16:19 UTC  |  Edited by: Alex Grison
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yes
Blueprint Seller
Bring Me Sunshine
#34 - 2013-04-30 20:16:42 UTC
The Fukuzawa wrote:
Define stock management

Making it so that you don't carry excessive quantities of items that are not immediately saleable, so as to prevent too much of your money being tied up in static stock. It's one of the classic pitfalls of retail business.

In your case, following your testimony, you are overstocked on some of those items. Your solution is to use them as collateral for loans on which you pay interest. The stock management solution would be to not buy/build so many of them.
Blueprint Seller
Bring Me Sunshine
#35 - 2013-04-30 20:18:02 UTC
Alex Grison wrote:
Inventory management

Potato Potato
The Fukuzawa
Doomheim
#36 - 2013-04-30 20:33:45 UTC  |  Edited by: The Fukuzawa
Blueprint Seller wrote:
The Fukuzawa wrote:
Define stock management

Making it so that you don't carry excessive quantities of items that are not immediately saleable, so as to prevent too much of your money being tied up in static stock. It's one of the classic pitfalls of retail business.

In your case, following your testimony, you are overstocked on some of those items. Your solution is to use them as collateral for loans on which you pay interest. The stock management solution would be to not buy/build so many of them.


This is what I figured you meant, but I just wanted to be clear before responding.

In a nutshell, when running an operation as large as ours there are so many variables and unknowns it is impossible to maintain a tight inventory. The demand for cap ships varies month to month and is impossible to predict, player competition is impossible to predict, and real life comes first. Contrary to what you think, I feel we do a great job of managing our inventory. Leveraging our static assets as collateral for low yield loans is the right answer, it has been working well for us for almost a year and companies do the same in real life as well. To say that we have unsalable stock is ridiculous, carriers and freighters are entry level cap ships, there will always be high demand for them. We just don't fire sale assets.

! ! ! New Eden Trade Group is paying monthly interest to investors, contact me if interested ! ! !

If you already assume we are scammers without looking at what we offer objectively, go ahead and F*** off.

Thank you, that is all.
Blueprint Seller
Bring Me Sunshine
#37 - 2013-04-30 20:59:54 UTC
The Fukuzawa wrote:
when running an operation as large as ours there are so many variables and unknowns it is impossible to maintain a tight inventory.

I have no idea what size of operation you run, so I cannot make any assesment of whether or not you qualify for the big business defence (whereby one is legitimately allowed to use ones successes as an excuse for ones failings).
Alex Grison
Grison Universal
#38 - 2013-04-30 21:08:16 UTC  |  Edited by: Alex Grison
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yes
The Fukuzawa
Doomheim
#39 - 2013-04-30 21:35:13 UTC  |  Edited by: The Fukuzawa
Blueprint Seller wrote:
The Fukuzawa wrote:
when running an operation as large as ours there are so many variables and unknowns it is impossible to maintain a tight inventory.

I have no idea what size of operation you run, so I cannot make any assesment of whether or not you qualify for the big business defence (whereby one is legitimately allowed to use ones successes as an excuse for ones failings).


I'm not trying to brag about our operation, if I came off that way it was not intentional. That said, we have not failed in anyway. Also, what makes you think you have the right to judge the success or failure of any player?

! ! ! New Eden Trade Group is paying monthly interest to investors, contact me if interested ! ! !

If you already assume we are scammers without looking at what we offer objectively, go ahead and F*** off.

Thank you, that is all.
Alex Grison
Grison Universal
#40 - 2013-04-30 23:06:00 UTC  |  Edited by: Alex Grison
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██████████████████████████████████████████████████████████████████




██████████████████████████████

yes
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