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(Odyssey) Exploration Site Mechanics

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Vincent Gaines
Deep Core Mining Inc.
Caldari State
#221 - 2013-04-29 14:45:22 UTC  |  Edited by: Vincent Gaines
Ember Saint wrote:
Vincent Gaines wrote:
It's not going to encourage group gameplay, it's just going to force us to drag around an alt just like now.

can you drag little cans faster in two windows?

Yes.

Also much faster than 2-3 people scrambling to grab the same can.

Ever been in a fleet and told to spread points? Guess what happens usually.

Not a diplo. 

The above post was edited for spelling.
Karsa Egivand
Sebiestor Tribe
Minmatar Republic
#222 - 2013-04-29 14:46:39 UTC
CCP Bayesian wrote:
Talsha Talamar wrote:
That and Twitching really has no place in EVE in my humble opinion.
Keep it to Dust. Eve is about strategy, tactics, blobs and tears; not hand-eye coordination :)


Our hope is to encourage people together so that more of those things end up happening as well as providing some more depth to the Universe. For example we think that people trying to nab your scattered cans should be flagged in Crimewatch. Or players might choose to ambush people in these sites after they complete the hack not only to get a kill but also to grab all the stuff.


Ninja exploring. Cool So many tears to be had.
Minmatar Citizen160812
The LGBT Last Supper
#223 - 2013-04-29 14:47:50 UTC  |  Edited by: Minmatar Citizen160812
CCP Bayesian wrote:
Talsha Talamar wrote:
That and Twitching really has no place in EVE in my humble opinion.
Keep it to Dust. Eve is about strategy, tactics, blobs and tears; not hand-eye coordination :)


Our hope is to encourage people together so that more of those things end up happening as well as providing some more depth to the Universe. For example we think that people trying to nab your scattered cans should be flagged in Crimewatch. Or players might choose to ambush people in these sites after they complete the hack not only to get a kill but also to grab all the stuff.



Redone mag loot tables and consideration for exploration hi-jackers in the design? I'll reserve any further judgement until the blog is out and it hits sisi. Sounds good to me so far. Suspect pinata parties would probably be fun but smartbombing a cloud of cov ops waiting for the spew would be more fun so please encourage them to congregate and loot "safely". Twisted


Vincent Gaines wrote:


Also much faster than 2-3 people scrambling to grab the same can.

Ever been in a fleet and told to spread points? Guess what happens usually.


What kind of morons do you fly with?
Gal'o Sengen
Doomheim
#224 - 2013-04-29 14:50:37 UTC
Why even try limit solo exploration? Solo exploration is one of the best ways to teach new players how to EVE while earning them their first real dosh. And adding five more modules to scanning? Are you serious? The module bloat for exploration is already stupid. Aside from the improvements to probing itself, the whole thing seems stupid to me.
Lady Zarrina
New Eden Browncoats
#225 - 2013-04-29 15:06:48 UTC
Gal'o Sengen wrote:
Why even try limit solo exploration? Solo exploration is one of the best ways to teach new players how to EVE while earning them their first real dosh. And adding five more modules to scanning? Are you serious? The module bloat for exploration is already stupid. Aside from the improvements to probing itself, the whole thing seems stupid to me.

I agree, they are just trying to force a dedicated scanning ship. And then figure out a reason for them to be there, well lets make them chance cans.


This is just bad. Group play for exploration is ONE guy running multiple accounts (as with many things in eve). And I detest running multiple accounts (have mulitple accounts but rarely do I feel the desire the run more than one at once). This does not promote group play.

EVE: All about Flying Frisky and Making Iskie
Strata Maslav
Heretic Army
Divine Damnation
#226 - 2013-04-29 15:08:10 UTC
As I and the rest of the EVE community have not tried this new game mechanic I find most of this discussion to be speculative.

I understand that people are concerned about changes that may impact their game but basing a strong opinion on speculation is not constructive.

Seeing as we have not been informed of the full range of changes/additions in the pipeline for this feature I don't feel that anyone is in position to comment with certainty on this aspect of Odyssey only ask relevant questions.

Some questions I have about this feature are:
-What is the minimum number of players required to scoop all the loot?
-What difference is there in the value of the loot dropped in comparison to current sites?
-What will be the effect of modules on this new "hacking?"
Strata Maslav
Heretic Army
Divine Damnation
#227 - 2013-04-29 15:09:58 UTC
Lady Zarrina wrote:
Gal'o Sengen wrote:
Why even try limit solo exploration? Solo exploration is one of the best ways to teach new players how to EVE while earning them their first real dosh. And adding five more modules to scanning? Are you serious? The module bloat for exploration is already stupid. Aside from the improvements to probing itself, the whole thing seems stupid to me.

I agree, they are just trying to force a dedicated scanning ship. And then figure out a reason for them to be there, well lets make them chance cans.


This is just bad. Group play for exploration is ONE guy running multiple accounts (as with many things in eve). And I detest running multiple accounts (have mulitple accounts but rarely do I feel the desire the run more than one at once). This does not promote group play.


CCP rewarding teamwork in a multiplayer game what ever next?!
Solkara Starlock
Circle of Mystery
#228 - 2013-04-29 15:11:26 UTC
Thanks for the feedback CCP Bayesian!

I still think that forcing players to do something is not good design.

People who want to play in groups can do so. The game provides a multitude of possibilities. In fact EVE can only be fully enjoyed while playing with other people.

But exploration has been one of the only things that you can do solo and in a short amount of time. There is a niche for that kind of gameplay in EVE. Sometimes you don't have the time, the will or the online buddies to play in a group.
It's not that exploration is the biggest ISK making profession in the game.

Forcing group play upon exploration will annoy players. I see little added value to that.

Vanishing loot is a stupid idea, I can't say it in any other way.
Lady Zarrina
New Eden Browncoats
#229 - 2013-04-29 15:13:10 UTC
Strata Maslav wrote:
Lady Zarrina wrote:
Gal'o Sengen wrote:
Why even try limit solo exploration? Solo exploration is one of the best ways to teach new players how to EVE while earning them their first real dosh. And adding five more modules to scanning? Are you serious? The module bloat for exploration is already stupid. Aside from the improvements to probing itself, the whole thing seems stupid to me.

I agree, they are just trying to force a dedicated scanning ship. And then figure out a reason for them to be there, well lets make them chance cans.


This is just bad. Group play for exploration is ONE guy running multiple accounts (as with many things in eve). And I detest running multiple accounts (have mulitple accounts but rarely do I feel the desire the run more than one at once). This does not promote group play.


CCP rewarding teamwork in a multiplayer game what ever next?!

I guess it was too much for you to actually read the whole post. We know what group play is....... One guy with 5 account.

EVE: All about Flying Frisky and Making Iskie
Strata Maslav
Heretic Army
Divine Damnation
#230 - 2013-04-29 15:13:14 UTC
Gal'o Sengen wrote:
Why even try limit solo exploration? Solo exploration is one of the best ways to teach new players how to EVE while earning them their first real dosh. And adding five more modules to scanning? Are you serious? The module bloat for exploration is already stupid. Aside from the improvements to probing itself, the whole thing seems stupid to me.


If a single player can get the same amount of materials out a site when comparing exploration before and after the expansion what would be the issue?

Much of this thread is people jumping conclusions and speculation.
Jenn aSide
Soul Machines
The Initiative.
#231 - 2013-04-29 15:17:35 UTC
Strata Maslav wrote:
Gal'o Sengen wrote:
Why even try limit solo exploration? Solo exploration is one of the best ways to teach new players how to EVE while earning them their first real dosh. And adding five more modules to scanning? Are you serious? The module bloat for exploration is already stupid. Aside from the improvements to probing itself, the whole thing seems stupid to me.


If a single player can get the same amount of materials out a site when comparing exploration before and after the expansion what would be the issue?


Their issue (a dumb as it is) is that they will FEEL like they are losing out because they will never know what was in the cans that popped. So it doesn't matter (to them) that average pay out remains the same, they FEEL like they are losing something (that they never had in the 1st place lol). I'm sure most of them will feel totally sure that the loot that popped contained rare T2 BPCs everytime lol

Quote:

Much of this thread human experience is people jumping conclusions and speculation.


fixed that last bit for you Big smile
Ruskarn Andedare
Lion Investments
#232 - 2013-04-29 15:17:44 UTC
Gal'o Sengen wrote:
Why even try limit solo exploration? Solo exploration is one of the best ways to teach new players how to EVE while earning them their first real dosh. And adding five more modules to scanning? Are you serious? The module bloat for exploration is already stupid. Aside from the improvements to probing itself, the whole thing seems stupid to me.


No way they'll fit on a tech 1 scanning frigate, even the tech 2s will struggle to fit 5 more modules on top of the usual modules and they'll be pretty useless for anything after that.

10 slots total on a cov ops - cloak, probe launcher, decoder, analyzer plus 5 new modules leaves a whole 1 for variety - prop or tank?
Strata Maslav
Heretic Army
Divine Damnation
#233 - 2013-04-29 15:19:00 UTC  |  Edited by: Strata Maslav
Lady Zarrina wrote:
Strata Maslav wrote:
Lady Zarrina wrote:
Gal'o Sengen wrote:
Why even try limit solo exploration? Solo exploration is one of the best ways to teach new players how to EVE while earning them their first real dosh. And adding five more modules to scanning? Are you serious? The module bloat for exploration is already stupid. Aside from the improvements to probing itself, the whole thing seems stupid to me.

I agree, they are just trying to force a dedicated scanning ship. And then figure out a reason for them to be there, well lets make them chance cans.


This is just bad. Group play for exploration is ONE guy running multiple accounts (as with many things in eve). And I detest running multiple accounts (have mulitple accounts but rarely do I feel the desire the run more than one at once). This does not promote group play.


CCP rewarding teamwork in a multiplayer game what ever next?!

I guess it was too much for you to actually read the whole post. We know what group play is....... One guy with 5 account.


I am actually involved in EVE PVE group play and if you can do something that should take 3 people more power to you. I think the biggest assumption everyone in this thread is making is that: CCP is going to make a site require 3 people to gather all the loot therefor a solo player will only be able to get a third of the current value of a current site!

CCP have said they are rebalancing the site but have not given us concrete numbers, but judging by their track record I doubt they will be "nerfing solo exploration" more buffing people working together.

So as you may speculate they are going to ruin solo exploration I am going to speculate that they will increase the total loot available in a site and therefore encourage people to work together.
CCP Bayesian
#234 - 2013-04-29 15:22:23 UTC
Solkara Starlock wrote:
Thanks for the feedback CCP Bayesian!

I still think that forcing players to do something is not good design.


Absolutely which is why we are incentivising it so it's a more attractive choice.

Solkara Starlock wrote:
People who want to play in groups can do so. The game provides a multitude of possibilities. In fact EVE can only be fully enjoyed while playing with other people.

But exploration has been one of the only things that you can do solo and in a short amount of time. There is a niche for that kind of gameplay in EVE. Sometimes you don't have the time, the will or the online buddies to play in a group.
It's not that exploration is the biggest ISK making profession in the game.

Forcing group play upon exploration will annoy players. I see little added value to that.

Vanishing loot is a stupid idea, I can't say it in any other way.


We are not intent on forcing people to abandon solo exploration as I've said previously in this thread.

EVE Software Engineer Team Space Glitter
Ruskarn Andedare
Lion Investments
#235 - 2013-04-29 15:24:53 UTC
Jenn aSide wrote:
Strata Maslav wrote:
Gal'o Sengen wrote:
Why even try limit solo exploration? Solo exploration is one of the best ways to teach new players how to EVE while earning them their first real dosh. And adding five more modules to scanning? Are you serious? The module bloat for exploration is already stupid. Aside from the improvements to probing itself, the whole thing seems stupid to me.


If a single player can get the same amount of materials out a site when comparing exploration before and after the expansion what would be the issue?


Their issue (a dumb as it is) is that they will FEEL like they are losing out because they will never know what was in the cans that popped. So it doesn't matter (to them) that average pay out remains the same, they FEEL like they are losing something (that they never had in the 1st place lol). I'm sure most of them will feel totally sure that the loot that popped contained rare T2 BPCs everytime lol

Quote:

Much of this thread human experience is people jumping conclusions and speculation.


fixed that last bit for you Big smile


Grass is Greener syndrome

Every time someone misses out on a possible win they WILL feel like they probably missed out on 'The Big One', whatever it is, that's just human nature. It'll be especially bad if they end up with three of 'The Rubbish One'.

I'm just hoping my arthritic fingers can cope with the grabbing game when it comes up on SiSi to try.
Lady Zarrina
New Eden Browncoats
#236 - 2013-04-29 15:28:55 UTC
Strata Maslav wrote:
Lady Zarrina wrote:
Strata Maslav wrote:
Lady Zarrina wrote:
Gal'o Sengen wrote:
Why even try limit solo exploration? Solo exploration is one of the best ways to teach new players how to EVE while earning them their first real dosh. And adding five more modules to scanning? Are you serious? The module bloat for exploration is already stupid. Aside from the improvements to probing itself, the whole thing seems stupid to me.

I agree, they are just trying to force a dedicated scanning ship. And then figure out a reason for them to be there, well lets make them chance cans.


This is just bad. Group play for exploration is ONE guy running multiple accounts (as with many things in eve). And I detest running multiple accounts (have mulitple accounts but rarely do I feel the desire the run more than one at once). This does not promote group play.


CCP rewarding teamwork in a multiplayer game what ever next?!

I guess it was too much for you to actually read the whole post. We know what group play is....... One guy with 5 account.


I am actually involved in EVE PVE group play and if you can do something that should take 3 people more power to you. I think the biggest assumption everyone in this thread is making is that: CCP is going to make a site require 3 people to gather all the loot therefor a solo player will only be able to get a third of the current value of a current site!

CCP have said they are rebalancing the site but have not given us concrete numbers, but judging by their track record I doubt they will be nerfing "solo exploration" more buffing people working together.

So as you may speculate they are going to ruin solo exploration I am going to speculate that they will increase the total loot available in a site and therefore encourage people to work together.


I don't this this will ruin solo exploration. I think this is a needless stupid idea. Chasing cans....... Waste of development time for very little return. Chasing cans.... Can't wait until we get walking in stations to play tag.

EVE: All about Flying Frisky and Making Iskie
Vincent Gaines
Deep Core Mining Inc.
Caldari State
#237 - 2013-04-29 15:38:33 UTC
Minmatar Citizen160812 wrote:
[

What kind of morons do you fly with?

The best/funniest/scariest morons in the game.

Who have I flown with before? A cross section of everyone.

Not a diplo. 

The above post was edited for spelling.
Vincent Gaines
Deep Core Mining Inc.
Caldari State
#238 - 2013-04-29 15:43:24 UTC
CCP Bayesian wrote:

We are not intent on forcing people to abandon solo exploration as I've said previously in this thread.


No, however you're making it fairly pointless not to.

With the amount of modules, and the can pinata you can't be anywhere alone without losing a good chunk of the loot. What's the threshold here?

How many "good" items are ejected? How long do you have to grab them? With what means can you do so?

Are these sites out in the middle of nowhere, or in the middle of a busy system 2 AU from a planet which would make zero sense for something to be undetected for so long.

So the items form a storyline? Do they delve into the lore of the Eve universe, or is it just some junk to throw in your cargohold and sell like generic mission loot?

Not a diplo. 

The above post was edited for spelling.
CCP Prime
C C P
C C P Alliance
#239 - 2013-04-29 15:49:16 UTC
As it stands, you have containers bursting out in groups along an axis in a random direction.

It's not much of a chase, but more of a decision what is the optimal way to position your ship to recover the most of the loot.
As for the assumption that this is twitched based gameplay, we'll see once it is on SISI and what the feedback will be.
In the state it was demoed you have to invest ~4 seconds to get one can, meaning that once you've clicked it, you have ~4 seconds to choose what can to take next.

Software Engineer Team Prototyping Rocks 2 3 5 7 11 13 17 19 23 29 31 37 41 43 47 53 59 61 67 71 ...
CCP Bayesian
#240 - 2013-04-29 15:58:36 UTC
Vincent Gaines wrote:
CCP Bayesian wrote:

We are not intent on forcing people to abandon solo exploration as I've said previously in this thread.


No, however you're making it fairly pointless not to.


That depends on how the balancing is done. It won't be pointless if people soloing can still make what they consider a reasonable income for a reasonable risk and time investment.

Vincent Gaines wrote:
With the amount of modules, and the can pinata you can't be anywhere alone without losing a good chunk of the loot. What's the threshold here?

How many "good" items are ejected? How long do you have to grab them? With what means can you do so?


How long is a piece of string? These are things that will effectively be set for first release on Sisi through internal playtesting, then monitored and altered as the feature is in testing there and will be actively monitored on TQ as we see real world usage.

Quote:
Are these sites out in the middle of nowhere, or in the middle of a busy system 2 AU from a planet which would make zero sense for something to be undetected for so long.

So the items form a storyline? Do they delve into the lore of the Eve universe, or is it just some junk to throw in your cargohold and sell like generic mission loot?


The sites are the exploration sites that currently exist with their contents rebalanced. It would nice to involve lore and new consumable content in with this update to exploration but impractical given our development restraints.

EVE Software Engineer Team Space Glitter