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so now that moons are going to be rebalanced does that mean no more otec and notec?

Author
MeBiatch
GRR GOONS
#1 - 2013-04-29 13:50:42 UTC
from what i understand the reason for mega coalitions is the bottleneck of certain moon goo...

but now that its been announced that moon goo is going to be reblanced is there now hope that the blue NIP doughnut will implode and we will not see just another great war i.e all of eve vrs one alliance but see mega coalitions like cfc/hbc/n3 implode and kill each other off?

personally regional wars are much more interesting then mega blocks sov grinding each other to boredom...

There are no stupid Questions... just stupid people... CCP Goliath wrote:

Ugh ti-di pooping makes me sad.

Lallante
Blue Republic
RvB - BLUE Republic
#2 - 2013-04-29 13:51:33 UTC
MeBiatch wrote:
from what i understand the reason for mega coalitions is the bottleneck of certain moon goo...

but now that its been announced that moon goo is going to be reblanced is there now hope that the blue NIP doughnut will implode and we will not see just another great war i.e all of eve vrs one alliance but see mega coalitions like cfc/hbc/n3 implode and kill each other off?

personally regional wars are much more interesting then mega blocks sov grinding each other to boredom...


It means new bottlenecks, with potential for new abuses no doubt. Doubt blue donut will implode straight away but the financial incentives for peace will be a lot less.
Robus Muvila
Caldari Provisions
Caldari State
#3 - 2013-04-29 13:58:31 UTC
Obligatory Blue Donut Response

TMC Senior Developer http://themittani.com - Because EvE has needed a proper news site for ages

MeBiatch
GRR GOONS
#4 - 2013-04-29 14:07:28 UTC


that doughnut has red sprinkles... and NIP does not mean dont shoot it just means dont kill infrastructure right?

There are no stupid Questions... just stupid people... CCP Goliath wrote:

Ugh ti-di pooping makes me sad.

Pepper Solette
Doomheim
#5 - 2013-04-29 14:26:39 UTC
Great, now i feel like donuts with my morning coffee. Ugh

** Miko Sunji:  "There is no better way to find out if you can swim, than swimming for your life."**

Varius Xeral
Doomheim
#6 - 2013-04-29 14:31:26 UTC
In general an interesting topic worthy of discussion, but in this case caged in by too many false premises to be worthy of applying effort.

Ask again as if you weren't a mewling idiot, and people might be more inclined to give you informed responses.

Official Representative of The Nullsec Zealot Cabal

NEONOVUS
Mindstar Technology
Goonswarm Federation
#7 - 2013-04-29 14:40:06 UTC
Ok I will explain this
The way the new moons work is that r64s were to always be the bottleneck.
https://docs.google.com/spreadsheet/ccc?key=0Aq9K6YlAgQS5dFFQUFFINVR6aGJobWp5LXZvYXpUb3c#gid=0

There is the complete list of reactions (plus autoupdating prices P )
Notice how much greater tech is used than the r64s, this led to the fact that there is literally not enough tech in the game to satisfy demand thankyou based alchemy.

What the new changes do is significantly reduce the demand on tech while shooting up the demand for r64s.
This combined with the true scattered nature of R64s means that space will now have a far more discrete better and lesser areas, but on the entire area.
Thus you will always have the impetus to expand and take another moon, but at the same time the moons are too scattered to allow you or close friends to control them all.
So conflict is now a definite and at the same time no blue doughnut will be possible due to the lack of wealth centralizers.
So more fights will occur and at the same time the number of super and lol to big to kill fleets will drop.
Think lower intensity but more continuous warfare.

Well maybe, still have structure grinds to worry about.
MeBiatch
GRR GOONS
#8 - 2013-04-29 14:44:12 UTC
Varius Xeral wrote:
In general an interesting topic worthy of discussion, but in this case caged in by too many false premises to be worthy of applying effort.

Ask again as if you weren't a mewling idiot, and people might be more inclined to give you informed responses.


the troll is strong with this one.

There are no stupid Questions... just stupid people... CCP Goliath wrote:

Ugh ti-di pooping makes me sad.

DarthNefarius
Minmatar Heavy Industries
#9 - 2013-04-29 15:06:20 UTC
What we got now is the probablity that HBC is sitting on the most space with the best moons now... If HBC doesn't implode over the next few months they'll have a huge chunk of moon goo's most valuable resources like Goons did b4.
The random scattering of new moons might change his a bit.
An' then Chicken@little.com, he come scramblin outta the    Terminal room screaming "The system's crashing! The system's    crashing!" -Uncle RAMus, 'Tales for Cyberpsychotic Children'
Dilbert HighSeed
Pirannha Corp
#10 - 2013-04-29 15:25:25 UTC
Nothing has changed.
The game mechanic of massive income for a select few remains.
It just means that 227 more moons are involved to maintain the same income streams as before.
CCP could have shut down the null sec cartels overnight by not only adding low end ores to the null sec rocks, but by adding moon goo to those rocks, and simultaneously changing the static variables defining moon goo outputs to zero.

But instead, we here from CCP that is "hard" to change to ring mining.
A first year university programming intern could have altered the code in a week to institute ring mining.

Has CCP demonstrated the ability to alter static variables? Ummmm, a chimp can do that.

Has CCP demonstrated the ability to add existing items to an old object. Gee, I dunno, sort of like adding Veldspar to Arkonor. Not sure CCP can do that one.

Does CCP have the ability to randomize the location of hidden grav belts anywhere in a region/ constellation? Of course, they do it now.

But CCP instead chooses to say "it is too hard", and instead burns who knows how many programmer-weeks in a NEW exploration system that NOBODY asked for, while people have been clamouring for ring mining, for how long now?

Bottom line, the null sec cartels are terrified of losing their massive income stream, so CCP won't wipe it out until richer income streams are established for those cartels.
Jenn aSide
Worthless Carebears
The Initiative.
#11 - 2013-04-29 15:27:30 UTC
I for one welcome our new R-SixtyFo-Tech Overlords.
MeBiatch
GRR GOONS
#12 - 2013-04-29 15:33:58 UTC
Dilbert HighSeed wrote:
Nothing has changed.
The game mechanic of massive income for a select few remains.
It just means that 227 more moons are involved to maintain the same income streams as before.
CCP could have shut down the null sec cartels overnight by not only adding low end ores to the null sec rocks, but by adding moon goo to those rocks, and simultaneously changing the static variables defining moon goo outputs to zero.

But instead, we here from CCP that is "hard" to change to ring mining.
A first year university programming intern could have altered the code in a week to institute ring mining.

Has CCP demonstrated the ability to alter static variables? Ummmm, a chimp can do that.

Has CCP demonstrated the ability to add existing items to an old object. Gee, I dunno, sort of like adding Veldspar to Arkonor. Not sure CCP can do that one.

Does CCP have the ability to randomize the location of hidden grav belts anywhere in a region/ constellation? Of course, they do it now.

But CCP instead chooses to say "it is too hard", and instead burns who knows how many programmer-weeks in a NEW exploration system that NOBODY asked for, while people have been clamouring for ring mining, for how long now?

Bottom line, the null sec cartels are terrified of losing their massive income stream, so CCP won't wipe it out until richer income streams are established for those cartels.


how about they change probing grav sites to be new sites that are like complexes but contain rocks that are filled with moon goo?
there are what r64 r32 r16 and r8 moon goo types?

why not make 4 different 0.0 complex sites that can be scanned that contain these types of moon mins...

that would sure put a dent in static moon goo holdings... and help drive down the cost of tech II gear...

There are no stupid Questions... just stupid people... CCP Goliath wrote:

Ugh ti-di pooping makes me sad.

Minmatar Citizen160812
The LGBT Last Supper
#13 - 2013-04-29 15:36:32 UTC
Varius Xeral wrote:
In general an interesting topic worthy of discussion, but in this case caged in by too many false premises to be worthy of applying effort.

Ask again as if you weren't a mewling idiot, and people might be more inclined to give you informed responses.



Or we could just give mewling idiot responses...here I'll start:

WAAAAA I want ring mining so I don't have to cooperate with others to get some of the most valuable stuff WAAAAAA

Goons are bad and ruin null sec with moon goo now all the other good nullsecers will beat them up and I will feel like justice has been done!

R64?...is that a new asteroid type I can afk mine?
Tippia
Sunshine and Lollipops
#14 - 2013-04-29 15:37:20 UTC
Dilbert HighSeed wrote:
CCP could have shut down the null sec cartels overnight by not only adding low end ores to the null sec rocks
Sure. But why would they want to do that? What would be the point?
Varius Xeral
Doomheim
#15 - 2013-04-29 15:40:27 UTC
Minmatar Citizen160812 wrote:
Or we could just give mewling idiot responses...here I'll start:

WAAAAA I want ring mining so I don't have to cooperate with others to get some of the most valuable stuff WAAAAAA

Goons are bad and ruin null sec with moon goo now all the other good nullsecers will beat them up and I will feel like justice has been done!

R64?...is that a new asteroid type I can afk mine?


Pretty much, yeah. That's where I assume a discussion that starts as this one did is inevitably headed, which is why you'll only see those people who like banging their faces against brick walls, like Tip and Malc, trying to engage it with any effort and sincerity.

Official Representative of The Nullsec Zealot Cabal

Varius Xeral
Doomheim
#16 - 2013-04-29 15:42:11 UTC
Not that I have anything against the few brave souls who try and maintain some sense of logic and sanity in this shitheap of a subforum, but it's definitely not a course for me.

Official Representative of The Nullsec Zealot Cabal

DarthNefarius
Minmatar Heavy Industries
#17 - 2013-04-29 15:47:01 UTC  |  Edited by: DarthNefarius
Tippia wrote:
Dilbert HighSeed wrote:
CCP could have shut down the null sec cartels overnight by not only adding low end ores to the null sec rocks
Sure. But why would they want to do that? What would be the point?


Well the point is moon goo extraction is more AFK than current ice mining & since ice mining got unAFK'd so hard in Odyssy how come moon goo'ing didn't too since AFK'ing is sooo bad m'kay?

Adding all these extra moons is just entrenching AFK activities in NULL moreso making it about impossible to get off this AFK welfare teat
An' then Chicken@little.com, he come scramblin outta the    Terminal room screaming "The system's crashing! The system's    crashing!" -Uncle RAMus, 'Tales for Cyberpsychotic Children'
Krax As
Garoun Investment Bank
Gallente Federation
#18 - 2013-04-29 18:44:11 UTC
I am very far from an expert here, but doesnt new moon distribution randomly over any area in space just mean: the more space you control, the higher the chance you end up with more than enough of those new moons ?

so, the large entities we have right now, probably dont have much to worry about.
and since they did nothing whatsoever to the curret sov mechanic, they can always keep on blobbling if they should need new moons. I think chance are pretty good we might see an increase in interregional trade and exchange of needed mats, but not so much of real smaller, regional conflicts.

Dramaticus
State War Academy
Caldari State
#19 - 2013-04-29 18:54:38 UTC
Where there is math, there is a winner

The 'do-nothing' member of the GoonSwarm Economic Warfare Cabal

The edge is REALLY hard to see at times but it DOES exist and in this case we were looking at a situation where a new feature created for all of our customers was being virtually curbstomped by five of them

Varius Xeral
Doomheim
#20 - 2013-04-29 19:08:09 UTC
Krax As wrote:
I am very far from an expert here, but doesnt new moon distribution randomly over any area in space just mean: the more space you control, the higher the chance you end up with more than enough of those new moons ?

so, the large entities we have right now, probably dont have much to worry about.
and since they did nothing whatsoever to the curret sov mechanic, they can always keep on blobbling if they should need new moons. I think chance are pretty good we might see an increase in interregional trade and exchange of needed mats, but not so much of real smaller, regional conflicts.


The big changes are the end of regionalization and a much greater spread of value. The total value of the t2 market will (hypothetically) be spread across many more moons, and these moons will be spread over a much greater area of space. It will be harder and harder for each individual organization to control each additional moon as it spreads itself further and further. Furthermore, the incentive for each additional moon will also be lower. The result will be that conflict will be more regional instead of one big winner and everyone else a loser. It will lower the incentive to form and maintain coalitions, as your best bet for new income is your neighbors, and there is less of a chance of some other coalition coming from the other side of the galaxy to stamp you out because they no longer have the everything to win and nothing to lose moon distribution of pre-odyssey.

That said, strategic organization is a hard thing to reverse once you've started, but this will at the very least slow or stop the progression towards greater and greater hierarchies of organization, and hopefully when existing coalitions break up, they will have much less incentive to reform or reform as large and cohesive.


Official Representative of The Nullsec Zealot Cabal

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