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(Odyssey) Exploration Site Mechanics

First post
Author
CCP Bayesian
#181 - 2013-04-29 11:25:42 UTC
blink alt, we're definitely looking at the balance of the sites themselves and the spread of them through high->null sec. I'll let our content designer speak to it though.

Mara Rinn, there is no intention to move this to mining. This came from a mining prototype that hasn't been taken forward anywhere.

EVE Software Engineer Team Space Glitter

James Amril-Kesh
Viziam
Amarr Empire
#182 - 2013-04-29 11:28:02 UTC
Prototype = "stated intent" apparently

Enjoying the rain today? ;)

James Amril-Kesh
Viziam
Amarr Empire
#183 - 2013-04-29 11:29:57 UTC
La'Krul wrote:
Sorry to pre-judge but it looks like garbage. There really wasn't much wrong with exploration anyway, so they'll probably ruin it now instead of fixing null or something useful. As someone who has all probe skills at V and salvager, analyzer, codebreaker at V, I really won't be too happy if a whole load of new probing and module skills are released on the back of this junk.

A mini-game, I mean seriously, WTF!

There wasn't much wrong with a system where you clear a room of rats like you do in pretty much every single site there is, go up to a can that's sitting in space for no reason, and activate a module and twiddle your thumbs?

Enjoying the rain today? ;)

LittleTerror
Stygian Systems
#184 - 2013-04-29 11:37:04 UTC  |  Edited by: LittleTerror


Another game using a similar mini game which i loved

Obviously that was a very easy lvl to hack but I could not find a harder example.
Rebecha Pucontis
Doomheim
#185 - 2013-04-29 11:38:02 UTC  |  Edited by: Rebecha Pucontis
I think this could work. Perhaps if you have a ship with the hacking mods and a ship with 8 highs full of tractor beams then it may be possible to gather all the loot. Trying to grab all the contents manually will be akin to looting a level 4 missions without tractor beams. So I guess people will adapt if it works something similar to this. Looking forward to seeing the Devblog anyway.

Just on a related note, I too am concerned about the details regarding the probing mechanics. What will happen to those who use 8 probes, will we still be able to use them? Also scanning using combat scanning probes will become incredibly quick. Has this been taken account of in the balance decisions, or is it intended that ships become much easier to scan down? Scanning had become sort of an art in its current form, my concern is that it sounds as though it has become dumbed down quite a bit.
CCP Prime
C C P
C C P Alliance
#186 - 2013-04-29 11:43:24 UTC  |  Edited by: CCP Prime
Thanks for the feedback, the reactions are varied and heated and that was expected.

I want to underline one thing in this feature, and that is that you get the loot you take automatically put into your cargohold, if you have available space for it. There's no UI window management involved. The plan is to show the cargohold button blink and above it what it is that you recovered.

Software Engineer Team Prototyping Rocks 2 3 5 7 11 13 17 19 23 29 31 37 41 43 47 53 59 61 67 71 ...

Krants
Doomheim
#187 - 2013-04-29 11:44:04 UTC
I'd really like to hear how CCP rationalizes this new mechanics on lore level - the wreck of the ship that was shown in new and "improved" exploration was of the same class that came from Earth, how can it still have a positive pressure after hundreds, if not thousands of years after being abandoned? And how are the explorers SO stupid that they don't check pressure before opening the hatches - i mean fool me once shame on you, fool me twice shame on me, fool me.... etc?

It just feels like CCP wanted to put some new "feature" in and they went along the first idea they got without even thinking how or why.
MainDrain
Applied Anarchy
The Initiative.
#188 - 2013-04-29 11:48:26 UTC
When this goes live on the test server can you choose a system to seed these in to a ridiculous level this will allow us to properly test it out, rather than having to search multiple systems to find 1 or 2.
Karsa Egivand
Sebiestor Tribe
Minmatar Republic
#189 - 2013-04-29 12:09:06 UTC
CCP Prime wrote:
Thanks for the feedback, the reactions are varied and heated and that was expected.

I want to underline one thing in this feature, and that is that you get the loot you take automatically put into your cargohold, if you have available space for it. There's no UI window management involved. The plan is to show the cargohold button blink and above it what it is that you recovered.


That is nice. Idea Could this be adapted in some form for all kinds of looting?

E.g. click on the container/wreck --> radial menu or plain old menu --> loot --> stuff goes into cargohold if it all fits, no windows pop up

That would be awesome.
Nicen Jehr
Subsidy H.R.S.
Xagenic Freymvork
#190 - 2013-04-29 12:11:40 UTC
the hate, it burns! Looking forward to trying this out.

will our hacking and archeology skills be modified?
will we still have to be within 2500m of the cans to open them?
will the cans appear on overview?
Barrogh Habalu
Imperial Shipment
Amarr Empire
#191 - 2013-04-29 12:16:48 UTC  |  Edited by: Barrogh Habalu
Krants wrote:
I'd really like to hear how CCP rationalizes this new mechanics on lore level - the wreck of the ship that was shown in new and "improved" exploration was of the same class that came from Earth, how can it still have a positive pressure after hundreds, if not thousands of years after being abandoned? And how are the explorers SO stupid that they don't check pressure before opening the hatches - i mean fool me once shame on you, fool me twice shame on me, fool me.... etc?

It just feels like CCP wanted to put some new "feature" in and they went along the first idea they got without even thinking how or why.

This mech got nothing on pirate battleships and other assorted vessels getting ejected in all directions (and travelling dozens of kilometers in the process) from bottom station wreck in "Pirate invasion" when they spawn. It's called "emerging from shadows", apparently Big smile

What were they doing there, anyways? Attempts at using Archeology skill by poking ruins with their True Sansha Nightmares' pointy noses or something?
Mara Rinn
Cosmic Goo Convertor
#192 - 2013-04-29 12:20:52 UTC
James Amril-Kesh wrote:
Prototype = "stated intent" apparently


Why else would you prototype something and introduce that mechanic into the game? Until CCP Bayesian clarified the situation, it appeared to me that they were prototyping this, testing with exploration, with the intent of moving the mechanic to mining in a later expansion, since changing how a hacking container spawns might be easier than changing how asteroids spawn.

Remember, if you worry about being too paranoid, you're not paranoid enough.
Mara Rinn
Cosmic Goo Convertor
#193 - 2013-04-29 12:22:11 UTC
Karsa Egivand wrote:
E.g. click on the container/wreck --> radial menu or plain old menu --> loot --> stuff goes into cargohold if it all fits, no windows pop up.


+1, a "loot all" option on the radial to avoid dealing with inventory windows would be very nice.
Jenn aSide
Soul Machines
The Initiative.
#194 - 2013-04-29 12:23:06 UTC
So lets break it on down:

EVE Players: Give us new stuff in the game

(CCP gives new "never before seen in EVE" stuffs)

EVE Players: Noooooooo, we've never seen this before but we already know we don't like it, give us stuff that looks exactly like stuff we've seen a million times!!!

(CCP gives stuff seen millions of times before)

EVE Players: CCP is bad because they never give new stuff.

Conclusion: you couldn't pay me enough to work for ccp in any capacity where i had to look at any forum ever.
Zloco Crendraven
BALKAN EXPRESS
Shadow Cartel
#195 - 2013-04-29 12:30:21 UTC
Tank Talbot wrote:
Understand where I am coming from. I think the designers at CCP are intelligent people who do good work for the game and have worthy goals. It’s true, I have personally lamented the fact that design documents always included real at the expense of fun when considering new features to add into EVE when I thought both factors should be included. For example, the new multi-launch probe system with preset formations is both fun enhancing and feels real. It is a great addition to the game in my view.

However, the new system of hacking a hull by way of a mini-game that results in an explosion of goodies you and a pal have to run catch or lose looks to be a SILLY addition to play. It’s a feature more worthy of an action game that doesn’t take itself seriously instead of a a space sim like EVE. I think they should keep the goodies in a can to collect even if said can looks like a space ship to loot now. There are better ways to make exploration less of a solo activity but I am not sure they can kill multi-boxing on PC to get around this anyway as boxer can account for it.

I understand the need to make the game more accessible to new players. I understand making the game look nicer to improve its appeal with gate, docking, and new probe interface animations. It’s why I can accept the change in terminology for site names. But none of it should be done at the expense of actual, in-depth, play. Put it all together with the catch and grab mechanic and its like some one is looking to “dumb down” the game into an action game for PS4, tablets, mobiles, and novelty gadgets like Oculus.

There are enough shallow, pretty looking, little action games on the market right now and EVE’s intelligence, depth and breadth, is the only thing that keeps people here and playing as long as they do. I know the game has to grow and adapt but not at the cost of its core values with features like that.


It will be way harder with the mini game and catching loot than sit there for 5 mins waiting for the can to be hacked than click to loot. WTF are u saying? More interaction with the enviroment around us and with other players is the way to go. Time of boring mechanics is a past, embrace the future man.

BALEX, bringing piracy on a whole new level.

El Geo
Warcrows
THE OLD SCHOOL
#196 - 2013-04-29 12:36:22 UTC  |  Edited by: El Geo
Maybe, just maybe, CCP would consider making these just new types of sites, adding to the universe instead and maybe just tweaking the old sites to look a little better with new dungeon looks (the new sites do look much better)

I wonder if they are considering using something similar to change other chance based modules, like ecm....
Rual Storge
Caldari Provisions
Caldari State
#197 - 2013-04-29 12:36:43 UTC
Complaining doesnt work, try seducing hilmar in his favourite pub...
Moneta Curran
Federal Defense Union
Gallente Federation
#198 - 2013-04-29 13:03:22 UTC
Brooks Puuntai
Solar Nexus.
#199 - 2013-04-29 13:10:04 UTC
Rual Storge wrote:
Complaining doesnt work, try seducing hilmar in his favourite pub...


Doubt Hilmar does much with Eve anymore. Pretty much so long as **** doesn't hit the fan, hes prob more focused on Dust atm.

CCP's Motto: If it isn't broken, break it. If it is broken, ignore it. Improving NPE / Dynamic New Eden

Sven Viko VIkolander
In space we are briefly free
#200 - 2013-04-29 13:16:06 UTC  |  Edited by: Sven Viko VIkolander
James Amril-Kesh wrote:
Alek Row wrote:
I'm not into hacking myself, but from other games experiences, this kind of mini games usually get boring VERY fast.
For certain activities F1 still have a place despite the obvious lack of interaction.

This is one of your experiments right?
Otherwise you had put this kind of mini games in mining (LOL).
Let's just start with hacking first?






It can't possibly be as boring as what we have now.


^^
I think a lot of people are overlooking this. Many of these posts read as if the current system is a paragon of enjoyment. I'm actually doing a mag site on an alt as I write this, which shows about how much interaction they take. I'm really excited about the new system and am already sold--even solely because of the fact that I can do mag/radar sites now on my scanner and not have to change ships. So long as the new system reduces the total amount of clicks I need do to while scanning (i.e., that it does not become a click-fest).

One final thought atm: Will the loot drops of mag/radar sites be improved? What about in low/null sec, where those sites are not generally run because of the time/lack of isk?