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Jump Bridge volume

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James Amril-Kesh
Viziam
Amarr Empire
#21 - 2013-04-29 11:03:52 UTC
CCP WhiteNoiseTrash wrote:
James Amril-Kesh wrote:
Can we PLEASE get the titan bridge bug fixed as well? This has been ongoing for as long as I can remember, and many people have filed many bug reports about this problem, and yet nothing has been done for what's a pretty game-breaking defect.


not to my knowledge. we were informed about this just the other day.

O_O

I have a hard time believing the tens of thousands of players who have experienced this problem either first or second-hand either wrote absolutely no bug reports whatsoever, or that the dozens of bug reports that were likely written somehow didn't show up on your radar.

Either this is a problem with players not bug reporting properly/at all, or it's a problem with your defect tracking.
I'd have reported it myself but having only experienced it second-hand I'm not exactly a good source.

Enjoying the rain today? ;)
Corey Fumimasa
CFM Salvage
#22 - 2013-04-29 11:26:33 UTC  |  Edited by: Corey Fumimasa
I sort of like the Bridge bug. I think it accurately represents potential failures and complications of such a strange event. If they "fix" it I hope it gets replaced with a random element; perhaps only a certain % of the ships jump, or maybe they don't all land on the same grid or even the same system! Lulz, makes me laugh just thinking about it.

But having 2-5% of ships in a jump suffer some sort of random event seems like great fun to me. =-)
James Amril-Kesh
Viziam
Amarr Empire
#23 - 2013-04-29 11:32:12 UTC
I'm just going to pretend you didn't say that.

Enjoying the rain today? ;)
Corey Fumimasa
CFM Salvage
#24 - 2013-04-29 11:37:36 UTC  |  Edited by: Corey Fumimasa
CCP WhiteNoiseTrash wrote:

Thanks.
we as a team and me as a designer are really working hard to get EVE back on the right audio track.
Too bad there isn't a recording of the roundtable, but let me go over a few of the things mentioned for our future plans.

Playing without sound is always an option, but one of my personal goals will be to make EVE a game, where playing with sound will be an advantage. Not a disadvantage to turn it off, but with it on you will be able to get information that you otherwise would not have.

Personally I would like to make the game audio - AFK friendly. I'm not saying that I want people to play AFK necessarily, but I would like players to be able to walk away from the computer and then just by listening, be able to tell when they need to react or not and come back to the action.

...Edited for space CFM .

I love this direction, great ideas. We can get only so much info from visuals, adding important and sometimes subtle audio ques will very much help to engage with the game. And not so much actual AFK players but sometimes I have a chat window or inventory window covering most of the screen, waiting for voice to say something or something to flash on the OV. More actual audio que's would allow more time to be spent chatting and theorycrafting while waiting for e certain event or trigger, which would be great for my playstyle.

And audio que's as hints and clues to your surroundings in game is fascinating. I loved Myst and Riven for exactly that reason.

I can live without the JB, sigh. =-)

Anyway thanks for the response WNT, I look forward to seeing these ideas take shape, or sound.
Pak Narhoo
Splinter Foundation
#25 - 2013-04-29 11:47:21 UTC  |  Edited by: Pak Narhoo
CCP WhiteNoiseTrash wrote:
Lady Areola Fappington wrote:
I've gotta say, I agree with Vera up there. Eve is one of the few games that doesn't force you to be able to hear well to play. I lost a lot of my hearing from a roadside bomb in Iraq, and it still amazes me how much you really depend on audio for subconscious clues and such.

CCP, I hope you can keep EVE "deaf friendly", while still giving cool new features.


I never said that.
EVE is still deaf friendly. what I am saying is that sound in EVE will be a "good thing" to have on instead of something people joke about or turn off because they see it as useless.
Having sound on should be an advantage and not a piece of something annoying. playing with sound off should be a choice to take, but have in mind that you then remove a layer of information.

the fact that some people are deaf and that some are blind, is really not something we can build a game around, we can take these individuals into our considerations about make our game friendly to them, but certainly that shouldn't ruin it for the majority of people who can hear and see perfectly well.


Well you could, maybe, add another window to the client which "converts" the sounds to a graph. With some experience, again maybe, those with hearing trouble will be able to figure out what to watch for like we have to learn how to interpret the sounds?
Corey Fumimasa
CFM Salvage
#26 - 2013-04-29 11:55:30 UTC
Vera dropped the handicap card?! Vera is the nastiest troll I have ever met on a forum. Nothing but obfuscation and derailment in order to get attention. I was hoping that she would go over the SOE forums in order to attack Screegs there, ahh well, good for Screegs, no worse for us.
Corey Fumimasa
CFM Salvage
#27 - 2013-04-29 12:04:44 UTC
We have at least two deaf players in alliance; there is always someone happy to relay commands in fleet. Its kind of fun and allows the relayer to see the game from a different perspective.

Eve is an MMO and part of that is interacting with other players, assisting in a different play style is a great way to see the game in a new light. Bringing more sounds will create more opportunity for interaction, this is not a bad thing for anyone regardless of their hardware.
Jessica Danikov
Network Danikov
#28 - 2013-04-29 12:39:12 UTC
I poked three of the sound Devs at the Music/Sound round table and they said they'd get on it, so it might even get patched as a bug before Odyssee.
Banshee Screech
The Graduates
The Initiative.
#29 - 2013-04-29 13:00:46 UTC  |  Edited by: Banshee Screech
CCP WhiteNoiseTrash wrote:
James Amril-Kesh wrote:
Can we PLEASE get the titan bridge bug fixed as well? This has been ongoing for as long as I can remember, and many people have filed many bug reports about this problem, and yet nothing has been done for what's a pretty game-breaking defect.


not to my knowledge. we were informed about this just the other day.

Very strange - there's been many many bug reports in-game and threads in the Issues forum for years on this issue, it's more or less the main reason why null people play with sound off alot of the time.

The explanations have been pretty spot on too - no distance on the sound (always full volume) and each additional jumper (titan or jump bridge, same problem) adds to the amplitude of the sound into complete distortion.
Corey Fumimasa
CFM Salvage
#30 - 2013-04-29 13:40:30 UTC
Banshee Screech wrote:
CCP WhiteNoiseTrash wrote:
James Amril-Kesh wrote:
Can we PLEASE get the titan bridge bug fixed as well? This has been ongoing for as long as I can remember, and many people have filed many bug reports about this problem, and yet nothing has been done for what's a pretty game-breaking defect.


not to my knowledge. we were informed about this just the other day.

Very strange - there's been many many bug reports in-game and threads in the Issues forum for years on this issue, it's more or less the main reason why null people play with sound off alot of the time.

The explanations have been pretty spot on too - no distance on the sound (always full volume) and each additional jumper (titan or jump bridge, same problem) adds to the amplitude of the sound into complete distortion.


I believe that the Titan bridge bug James was referring to, and the question that CCP WNT was answering, is one that prevents you from using the bridge if you go through a session change while the bridge is open. It is an old bug that has caused a lot of grief for people over the years. I kind of like it myself and I think maybe it makes the Devs smile a bit to.

Re the volume issue with the Titan Bridge, I'm pretty sure that is included with WhiteNoise's statement that 'Bridge volume is supposed to be on par with other sounds and It is going to be fixed next xpac.'
Random Majere
Rogue Fleet
#31 - 2013-04-29 13:55:21 UTC
CCP WhiteNoiseTrash wrote:
Corey Fumimasa wrote:
I would very much like to vent about the recent changes to Eve audio. I am not going to do that as I realize that I am not the only player and that everyone has different tastes. But for the love of God please lower the jump bridge volume. I have my environmental turned down so that I can barely hear it and still the JB sounds like my computer is exploding. If I use a headset for voice then I just have to turn audio off.

I enjoy the environmental sounds and very much miss them, please tell me that this is something that is going to be fixed.


sorry about this, but we just recently became aware of this.
It's not supposed to be louder and none positional in space. It may sound cool so loud the first time, but after 500 jumps, not so much - as someone pointed out at the audio roundtable at FF2013.

This will definitely be fixed for Odyssey.


This issue probably explains why I was starting to have tinnitus. I to had to lower my environmental lvl all the way down to zero to make sure I would not hear the whole fleet titan bridge.

I am happy to see this will get resolved. Thanks
Logan LaMort
Screaming Hayabusa
#32 - 2013-04-29 15:03:11 UTC
CCP WhiteNoiseTrash wrote:
Corey Fumimasa wrote:
CCP WhiteNoiseTrash wrote:


sorry about this, but we just recently became aware of this.
It's not supposed to be louder and none positional in space. It may sound cool so loud the first time, but after 500 jumps, not so much - as someone pointed out at the audio roundtable at FF2013.

This will definitely be fixed for Odyssey.


Awesome TY. Sorry to be so grumpy in the OP, we were chasing a gang around Provi last night and I must have gone through 20 bridges in an hour +half. I really do like Eve sound, both the choices for background music and the environmental sounds. Although I am on the "bring back the JB bandwagon." At any rate I like to keep it on, so thanks for making it interesting.


Thanks.
we as a team and me as a designer are really working hard to get EVE back on the right audio track.
Too bad there isn't a recording of the roundtable, but let me go over a few of the things mentioned for our future plans.

CCP Baldur, the audio director, said that the JB ain't coming back and it's gone for good. The music in EVE is now system and danger specific. - the ability to turn off the music and play your own music in a seperate player or play the EVE music from our soundcloud page is the solution.

Playing without sound is always an option, but one of my personal goals will be to make EVE a game, where playing with sound will be an advantage. Not a disadvantage to turn it off, but with it on you will be able to get information that you otherwise would not have.

Personally I would like to make the game audio - AFK friendly. I'm not saying that I want people to play AFK necessarily, but I would like players to be able to walk away from the computer and then just by listening, be able to tell when they need to react or not and come back to the action.

With some of the new features coming for Odyssey, like the scanner and the crypto hacking sequence, you will be able to - just by listening - slightly be able to "before you click" decipher what is behind the various results.
Like with the scanner, you will be able to hoover over the results and hear a "distress" signal - very faint. but by knowing which of them is which, it will give you , maybe, just the help you need to not suddenly fly into a situation that you can't handle or perhaps into the situation that you specifically want.

The same with the hacking sequence. you can hoover the nodes and be able to tell what is under it.
which nodes, which scanner results that sound like what, you will have to figure out yourself.

But sound is becoming a tool. not just a luxury. it may take a while to get everything done, but for the future and every new feature coming, will have stuff like this in it.

and you are not grumpy. :) at least I didn't get the impression.


This is exactly the type of stuff I want to see- uhh, hear, in the future of EVE. It's about time this game got upgraded to the audio visual experience of a truly amazing sci fi and it pleases me with each expansion since Crucible that puts focus back on this.

I mean visual and audio go hand in hand, they complement each other and it's really good to know that the audio in EVE is receiving this kind of upgrade Smile
mkint
#33 - 2013-04-29 16:37:39 UTC
The "EVE has sound?" meme is a meme because *competent* players turn it off. Players who actually fleet up and participate and create memes. We turn it off because *any* sound will disrupt fleets. We turn it off because so much of EVE works well as a passive game while you're doing something else, listening to something else, watching something else. And when we experiment to see "hmm, what's changed in the past 5 years since I turned the sound off?" we find it's grating and obnoxious after roughly 30 seconds.

Hiding critical information in sound is like hiding critical information in menus 4 levels deep. Actually, no, that's literally what it is. Making EVE require sound will be antagonizing your players who don't suck, who interact, who spend the most hours with the game.

Maxim 6. If violence wasn’t your last resort, you failed to resort to enough of it.
Astrid Stjerna
Sebiestor Tribe
#34 - 2013-04-29 21:37:51 UTC
mkint wrote:
The "EVE has sound?" meme is a meme because *competent* players turn it off. Players who actually fleet up and participate and create memes. We turn it off because *any* sound will disrupt fleets. We turn it off because so much of EVE works well as a passive game while you're doing something else, listening to something else, watching something else. And when we experiment to see "hmm, what's changed in the past 5 years since I turned the sound off?" we find it's grating and obnoxious after roughly 30 seconds.

Hiding critical information in sound is like hiding critical information in menus 4 levels deep. Actually, no, that's literally what it is. Making EVE require sound will be antagonizing your players who don't suck, who interact, who spend the most hours with the game.



I hope you realize that your entire argument boils down to 'I don't want to hear anything'.

You didn't read deeply enough: there will be no 'hiding' of critical information. What was relayed was a plan to make sound relevant to the game environment. You'll still be able to sit in silence while YouTube plays the latest clips of Britney Spears and LiLo making fools of themselves, but if you play with the sound on, you'll get a bit more of an idea about what's going on in the Cluster.

(Oh, and good job insulting half of EvE's population. That'll win you loads of support, I'm sure.)

I can't get rid of my darn signature!  Oh, wait....
James Amril-Kesh
Viziam
Amarr Empire
#35 - 2013-04-29 23:00:17 UTC
He's also wrong about competent players. Many of us do leave sound on. I personally do because I find having sound off to be rather disorienting.

Enjoying the rain today? ;)
CCP WhiteNoiseTrash
C C P
C C P Alliance
#36 - 2013-04-30 08:40:08 UTC
Princess Saskia wrote:
Definatly please try to incorporate being able to manage seperate volumes of sound when everything is implimented. An example if there really is going to be subtle hints to hacking/scanning ect i'd rather have those turned up and then all the other 'rubbish' that doesn't affect my gameplay turned completly off. Another example would be having wold volume turned on so that I can hear stargate jumps and such but then docking up and not wanting to hear the unbearable station effects.

/P

♥


when we are done, there won't be any "rubbish".
the whole point is to get rid of that too.

Bjørn Jacobsen | Deceased Audio Designer | EVE Online & EVE : Valkyrie | CCP Games | I might be slow at replying - but at least I'm bad at football.
CCP WhiteNoiseTrash
C C P
C C P Alliance
#37 - 2013-04-30 08:42:41 UTC
mkint wrote:
The "EVE has sound?" meme is a meme because *competent* players turn it off. Players who actually fleet up and participate and create memes. We turn it off because *any* sound will disrupt fleets. We turn it off because so much of EVE works well as a passive game while you're doing something else, listening to something else, watching something else. And when we experiment to see "hmm, what's changed in the past 5 years since I turned the sound off?" we find it's grating and obnoxious after roughly 30 seconds.

Hiding critical information in sound is like hiding critical information in menus 4 levels deep. Actually, no, that's literally what it is. Making EVE require sound will be antagonizing your players who don't suck, who interact, who spend the most hours with the game.


who said anything about hiding critical information? I only mentioned giving "hints" in the sound of what might come - you might as well play without the graphics then, in a text based universe if you really want to create your own stories.

you clearly didn't get my point.

my point is that it still won't be a disadvantage to turn it on, but a slight advantage to keep it on and that sound will give you better gameplay.

Bjørn Jacobsen | Deceased Audio Designer | EVE Online & EVE : Valkyrie | CCP Games | I might be slow at replying - but at least I'm bad at football.
Max Teranous
Galactic Deep Space Industries
Brave Collective
#38 - 2013-04-30 08:51:20 UTC
CCP WhiteNoiseTrash wrote:
mkint wrote:
The "EVE has sound?" meme is a meme because *competent* players turn it off. Players who actually fleet up and participate and create memes. We turn it off because *any* sound will disrupt fleets. We turn it off because so much of EVE works well as a passive game while you're doing something else, listening to something else, watching something else. And when we experiment to see "hmm, what's changed in the past 5 years since I turned the sound off?" we find it's grating and obnoxious after roughly 30 seconds.

Hiding critical information in sound is like hiding critical information in menus 4 levels deep. Actually, no, that's literally what it is. Making EVE require sound will be antagonizing your players who don't suck, who interact, who spend the most hours with the game.


who said anything about hiding critical information? I only mentioned giving "hints" in the sound of what might come - you might as well play without the graphics then, in a text based universe if you really want to create your own stories.

you clearly didn't get my point.

my point is that it still won't be a disadvantage to turn it on, but a slight advantage to keep it on and that sound will give you better gameplay.


I think mkint's point is that *any* slight advantage of using sound by definition means that not using sound puts you at a disadvantage, when compared to those using sound. this is a PVP interactive game after all, so any advantage to one group disadvantages the other group as they are directly interacting.

Personally i'm cool with adding better sound stuff, but i understand where mkint is coming from also.
Reiisha
#39 - 2013-04-30 09:03:49 UTC
mkint wrote:
The "EVE has sound?" meme is a meme because *competent* players turn it off. Players who actually fleet up and participate and create memes. We turn it off because *any* sound will disrupt fleets. We turn it off because so much of EVE works well as a passive game while you're doing something else, listening to something else, watching something else. And when we experiment to see "hmm, what's changed in the past 5 years since I turned the sound off?" we find it's grating and obnoxious after roughly 30 seconds.

Hiding critical information in sound is like hiding critical information in menus 4 levels deep. Actually, no, that's literally what it is. Making EVE require sound will be antagonizing your players who don't suck, who interact, who spend the most hours with the game.


Games like Counter-Strike and, to a certain extent, League of Legends, both team games where communication is critical, also place a lot of emphasis on sound.

Playing CS without sound is a death sentence, even though you have to communicate on voice comms aswell.

I don't see how making sound irrelevant in EVE is any different from making it irrelevant in CS.



Adding to that, why would you want to play a game that's only visuals and no sound? Sound is an integral part of a video game, whether you'd like it to be or not. If you want to handicap yourself by completely turning it off instead of just putting it on a low volume, go ahead, but some of us actually want the complete package.

If you do things right, people won't be sure you've done anything at all...
James Amril-Kesh
Viziam
Amarr Empire
#40 - 2013-04-30 09:06:40 UTC
I wonder how long it'll be before someone starts making accusations of ableism.

Enjoying the rain today? ;)