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This expansion just became 25% less awesome?

First post
Author
Naran Eto
Caldari Provisions
Caldari State
#61 - 2011-11-02 09:05:11 UTC
They're doing the standard testing thing, start with high numbers and tweak them lower, it's not a fiasco it's basic common sense tweaking.
Fon Revedhort
Monks of War
#62 - 2011-11-02 09:07:04 UTC
These changes are good. How can anyone deny that? Unless, of course, they long for something dirt-cheap and overpowered. 90% web - lolwhat?

Speed of those is still way too good, though. I hope further steps will follow.

"Being supporters of free speech and free and open [CSM] elections... we removed Fon Revedhort from eligibility". CCP, April 2013.

Cunane Jeran
#63 - 2011-11-02 09:12:03 UTC  |  Edited by: Cunane Jeran
It may of lost the web, but think about it, tracking bonus, easier to fit 425mm rails, and speed.

Personally I like the idea of a nimble rail platform with a 35km optimal using Antimatter, could lead to some interesting uses.

Don't get me wrong, I did want the mini vindicator. But lets wait till the ships hit Sisi before we start screaming over it, stats are always subject to change.

*Edit*
Javelin (all sizes): Removed cap penalty
Javelin, Gleam and Quake (all sizes): Removed tracking speed penalty, added 25% tracking speed bonus

Forgot about that, with t2 guns, even more rail tracking XD
Jacob Holland
Weyland-Vulcan Industries
#64 - 2011-11-02 09:12:29 UTC
I disagree that the Tier 3s are anti-capital ships.

They can certainly be used in that role but their very paper-thinness means that, IMO, there are better options.

Their most effective role is actually as a stepping stone to BS for newer players (or poorer players), allowing a pilot to develop BS weapon skills without having to simultaneously develop BS skills.
The Provi-blob used to be famous for its heavy reliance on BCs for example, severely hurt in many engagements by its lack of true fleet BS. While they would still be at a disadvantage with some of those pilots in Fleet BS style Tier 3s their pilots would at least have been able to learn as they went.

Similarly younger players often find great difficulty graduating from the Drake in particular to the larger PvE ships and, as support for another, tanky, pilot, the Tier 3s allow them to learn the limitations of the larger weapon systems.

On Topic however I am dissappointed in the loss of the web bonus on the Talos, the Drone bay is not a huge concern in comparison.
luZk
Fivrelde Corp
#65 - 2011-11-02 09:32:07 UTC
Onictus wrote:
luZk wrote:
Tbh web bonus AND bs sized guns sounds a little overpowered to me. We dont want a bc that makes all the other obsolete now do we?



That that tank it would get whompped one on one against a Mrym.



We dont know yet, but i kinda hope you're right.

http://i.imgur.com/1dl4DM6.jpg

Onictus
Federal Navy Academy
Gallente Federation
#66 - 2011-11-02 09:40:29 UTC
luZk wrote:
Onictus wrote:
luZk wrote:
Tbh web bonus AND bs sized guns sounds a little overpowered to me. We dont want a bc that makes all the other obsolete now do we?



That that tank it would get whompped one on one against a Mrym.



We dont know yet, but i kinda hope you're right.



Look at that hull stats, its like a diemost with worse resists......and Ironically with this pass LESS tank than the Tornado that can hit from out past 50km with ease (less shield /same armor)

Sans dones
Sans web bonus.


Pretty sure I could beat myself in a Talos (assuming no neut) with a Comet and I KNOW I could do with with an assault frigate.

Because now you have to go into scram range, with no tank, and no way to definitively in anything down without using two webs or just shield tanking and trying to melt the thing you scram.

Even cutting a gun and tossing on a neut is kinda meh, because you still be easy picking for fleet ceptors and anything with a scram.

Or use rails...with the added aggravation of **** poor tacking, not enough slots to give it good tracking and being WORSE at that roll than a Tornado.

Basically the ship went from pretty cool to meh...

Brutix will do the job better cheaper.
baltec1
Bat Country
Pandemic Horde
#67 - 2011-11-02 10:01:40 UTC
Onictus wrote:
luZk wrote:
Onictus wrote:
luZk wrote:
Tbh web bonus AND bs sized guns sounds a little overpowered to me. We dont want a bc that makes all the other obsolete now do we?



That that tank it would get whompped one on one against a Mrym.



We dont know yet, but i kinda hope you're right.



Look at that hull stats, its like a diemost with worse resists......and Ironically with this pass LESS tank than the Tornado that can hit from out past 50km with ease (less shield /same armor)

Sans dones
Sans web bonus.


Pretty sure I could beat myself in a Talos (assuming no neut) with a Comet and I KNOW I could do with with an assault frigate.

Because now you have to go into scram range, with no tank, and no way to definitively in anything down without using two webs or just shield tanking and trying to melt the thing you scram.

Even cutting a gun and tossing on a neut is kinda meh, because you still be easy picking for fleet ceptors and anything with a scram.

Or use rails...with the added aggravation of **** poor tacking, not enough slots to give it good tracking and being WORSE at that roll than a Tornado.

Basically the ship went from pretty cool to meh...

Brutix will do the job better cheaper.


Stop trying to theory craft the talos as a solopwnmobile and you will start to get better results.
schurem
Anarchy Inc.
#68 - 2011-11-02 10:17:07 UTC



goddamn. they dont make 'em llike that no more :(

.... You can't take the skies from me.

Nyla Skin
Caldari Provisions
Caldari State
#69 - 2011-11-02 10:32:32 UTC
I like what I read about changes. web bonus -> tracking bonus makes sense to me, as these new battlecruisers would work better as sniper than closerange platform. And BS sniper guns in an agile BC platform sounds pretty good. This might actually become an useful gallente ship.

In after the lock :P   - CCP Falcon www.nizkor.org/features/fallacies

Cailais
The Red Pill Taker Group
#70 - 2011-11-02 10:35:49 UTC
Pattern Clarc wrote:
People go "OMG" it has BS sized guns!!

Which means fuckall without context. The main advantage of BS guns is range. Commandships or T3's can achieve "battleship" dps (or tank) with medium guns with the right bonuses. The problem with the Talos is that 1, rails suck and will continue to suck even with the current iteration of changes - blasters don't really provide the type of range needed to distinguish it's self from medium turrets in any context. Which was why the web and drones kinda helped.

I also question the cruiser stats... CCP, have you even begun to look into how and why t1 cruisers are (not) flown?


Sure. And how much does a T3 with BS DPS actually cost?

There's your 'context'.

C.
Onictus
Federal Navy Academy
Gallente Federation
#71 - 2011-11-02 10:39:27 UTC
baltec1 wrote:


Stop trying to theory craft the talos as a solopwnmobile and you will start to get better results.


I never did, I rarely fly blasters solo above the frigate class, mainly for all of the reasons I listed above.

425s Rails are going to be pretty crappy because the optimal on 425s is something like what 48km? Bases tracking is 0.009! x2.5 damage modifier. So plus 45% tracking for the "boost" and hull bonus and you have a whopping 0.013 tracking before pilot skills, I'll tell you from experience that you won't be able to hit a nano-drake at 35km that has ANY transversal going


To get ANY real damage out of it you have to basically forget any tank (remember Tornado has more tank) fit a SeBo and two TC's if you can get away with it plus MWD, three magstabs and suitecase in the lows.

....so great, you have accomplished a Vexor with a hell of a long range. Talk about drake bait.

Fit blasters and you have largely the same issue, you have to tank and you have to armor tank, because now you need MWD scram a TC because changing scripts is a HELL of a lot faster than changing ammo and a cap booster unless I miss my guess.

Oh yeah, and 1600mm plate, EANM and suite case are mandatory, so a pair of mag-stabs and you are done....all for less DPS than nano-cane as well as less tank.

I guess swarming caps is one thing, but you can use a BS for that without being a one trick pony.
CCP Navigator
C C P
C C P Alliance
#72 - 2011-11-02 10:41:59 UTC
This is why we would encourage people totake information from data dumps with a pinch of salt. The four battlecruisers are not even ready to pilot on singularity just yet and may go through several more revisions while they are still in development.

CCP Ytterbium is in the process of writing a blog which will be published when the ships are final. Obviously, you are free to speculate on what may happen but realize that any changes are fluid. These ships may go through several more rounds of changes so please try and be patient for now Smile
Pattern Clarc
Citeregis
#73 - 2011-11-02 10:47:50 UTC  |  Edited by: Pattern Clarc
Take this thread as an example of our enthusiasm - and worry when expansions come and go without pages of OMGWTF.

But still, many of us have been burnt by too many "player testing" periods to take this one lying down. So expect vigorous debate at every stage of the process.

Ex CSM member & Designer of the Tornado. Gallente - Pilot satisfaction

Vachir Khan
Rugged Ruff and Ready
#74 - 2011-11-02 10:48:16 UTC
People who are bawwing just aren't realistic, all they do is "waaah we want new stuff and it has to be OP!!!", Seriously.
Jack Dant
The Gentlemen of Low Moral Fibre
#75 - 2011-11-02 10:51:41 UTC
CCP Navigator wrote:
CCP Ytterbium is in the process of writing a blog which will be published when the ships are final. Obviously, you are free to speculate on what may happen but realize that any changes are fluid. These ships may go through several more rounds of changes so please try and be patient for now Smile

The word "final" there is worrying Blink. I hope Ytterbium will be looking at all the EFT (well, pyfa) warrioring going on among the players.

What happens in lowsec, stays in lowsec, lowering the barrier to entry to lowsec PVP: https://forums.eveonline.com/default.aspx?g=posts&m=476644&#post476644

Kietay Ayari
Caldari State
#76 - 2011-11-02 11:15:17 UTC
I know its just random things they are testing out and nothing is final. But seeing the Naga with -1 low slot is scary D:

Ferox #1

Chunicha
Imperial Academy
Amarr Empire
#77 - 2011-11-02 11:26:38 UTC
I like ice cream.
Smoking Blunts
ZC Omega
#78 - 2011-11-02 11:27:49 UTC
CCP Navigator wrote:
This is why we would encourage people totake information from data dumps with a pinch of salt. The four battlecruisers are not even ready to pilot on singularity just yet and may go through several more revisions while they are still in development.

CCP Ytterbium is in the process of writing a blog which will be published when the ships are final. Obviously, you are free to speculate on what may happen but realize that any changes are fluid. These ships may go through several more rounds of changes so please try and be patient for now Smile



even with a pinch of salt, it still sucks to see a ship that looks awesom on paper, to suddenly look bad on that same paper.
these bc's need to be good at soemthing and they looked like they were going to be. now they look like they will be another thing that gathers dust in peoples hangers after the initial oh look i got a new bc effect has worn off. unless your a high sec ganker looking for faster locking speed over your bs

OMG when can i get a pic here

luZk
Fivrelde Corp
#79 - 2011-11-02 11:36:22 UTC
Okay how about this idea. Lets turn it around.

After many years of stuggle and factions seeing their own weapons turned against them they all invent a ship that counters just that.

Minmatar builds the bc that has a bonus against webbing.
Amarr invents a bc that has a bonus against neuts and nos.
Caldari builds a bc that has a bonus against ecm.
Gallente builds a bc that has a bonus against sensor damps.

Would that work?

http://i.imgur.com/1dl4DM6.jpg

Hans Jagerblitzen
Ice Fire Warriors
#80 - 2011-11-02 11:36:28 UTC
LEAVE....PATTERN....ALOOOOONE!!!!!

Seriously, y'all just jelly that your awesomesauce spaceship design isn't going to be flying around on Tranq this winter. Did you forget whose idea the Tornado was?

If I designed a spaceship, and it was going to be in EvE, I'd be on pins and needles about how it was going to turn out to. Thats how creativity works. So stop trashing on Pattern for being a "backseat programmer", show a little respect, and allow some healthy debate to take place.

The only mistake was maybe starting a whole new thread for this, but since nothing official is released yet, there really isn't an official place to discuss this. There's absolutely nothing wrong with saying, "I know this isn't official, but here's what I think of what I see so far."

CPM0 Chairman / CSM7 Vice Secretary