These forums have been archived and are now read-only.

The new forums are live and can be found at https://forums.eveonline.com/

EVE General Discussion

 
  • Topic is locked indefinitely.
 

Why do EVE players/devs hate sci fi?
Author
Previous Topic Next Topic
dark heartt
#21 - 2013-04-29 05:58:28 UTC  |  Edited by: dark heartt
I agree with you that it is needed to tie everything together, but it shouldn't be a focus to the detriment of the areas that really really really need iteration. I'd definitely recommend experiencing the emergent gameplay in some way. You'll enjoy it.

http://tetrisisunrealistic.blogspot.com.au/
Angang Ostus
Brutor Tribe
Minmatar Republic
#22 - 2013-04-29 06:19:48 UTC
Ai Shun wrote:
Angang Ostus wrote:
I want science fiction stories that are woven into immersive gameplay.


You do get it from EVE Online; just at a different pace and with more player input required. This is more like being a GM / Storyteller in a massive RPG than it is reading a novel. And CCP will stage events that impact the world (Note the recent events near Caldari Prime) and although those are rare; keep in mind the world moves slowly, year by year by year. It's on an entirely different scale with an entirely fluid and open set of protagonists.

Now don't tell me the tale of Ubiqua Seraph was not a science fiction story woven into immersive gameplay!

(http://eve.klaki.net/heist/)


Wow, great insights. I hear what you're saying. Thank you. And that story is phenomenal. The fact that they did all that on contract to someone else and played it out for so long....yeah, immersive gameplay!

Hmmm....one thing about solo PVE is that, if you're engaged in the story, you feel like you're doing a lot and a lot is going on because the story gives your imagination points to attach to and then an active imagination fills in the rest. Up to now I've mostly preferred that to having more player interaction because I've had the impression that what's really going on in 0.0 is very limited. My impression is that alliances: build things, PVP, mine, rat, spy, steal....and that's it. I'm clearly not seeing the forest for the trees, but it's just seemed like....they haven't given us enough stuff to do. There's not enough variety of things going on. But maybe it's much more than I imagine.

It seems like if there's not quite enough, then storyline PVE could have a niche there in giving the imagination some stimulation from another angle from time to time.

Also, if CCP doesn't have enough resources to do this, they should hire like...2 people.
Josef Djugashvilis
#23 - 2013-04-29 07:06:33 UTC
This is Eve.

Make your own sci-fi story lines.

This is not a signature.
Jacob Holland
Weyland-Vulcan Industries
#24 - 2013-04-29 07:30:09 UTC
Angang Ostus wrote:
As far as I know Caldari Prime is the first of its kind

In what sense?

How is it so different from chasing Sansha Kuvekai around Yulai and off down into lowsec to try to stop him raiding planets?
How is it new and unique compared to all of the various live events which have occured since the game began? (excepting the few years of absence when player volunteers were phased out).

I would suggest you're not looking deep enough if you think that story development is restricted to the offline, downtime events which characterised faction warfare and wormholes.
Octoven
Stellar Production
#25 - 2013-04-29 07:39:26 UTC
I dont run missions to be part of a story and I wouldnt do PVE to immerse myself. I run missions to grind standings and get isk thats pretty much it; however there are some who do like to really delve into the story and RP, thats great and all but this is first and foremost a sandbox. In a sandbox, the community at large decideds teh direction CCP takes. Unfortunately in your case it is away from PVE and more towards PVP.

Perhaps you haven't heard of TrueStories you submit your own stories of who you have been part of eve and if enough people do it...something great happens, a storyline of its own starts to form and the universe starts to take shape in the form of that story. It shouldnt be defined by defeating Krull and screaming for CCP for more missions nor should we rely on CCP to create storyline content in the form of the empires.

EVE Chronicles

EVE Short Stories

EVE World News

Look at all these resources of material being generated every day from players and devs concerning storylines and you are mad because its not presented in game in the form of a mission??

Ive heard of EVE being brutal and savage and perhaps difficult to play but never lack of immersion. To make it better, CCP is even working on UI mechanics and graphics to add to the immersion of it all. Id rather EVE continue the way its going and focus on ways to improve and balance the game before shifting to new mission content. To be honest I think you need to play EVE a bit longer and really understand it before you try attacking something you clearly do not.
Solstice Project
Sebiestor Tribe
Minmatar Republic
#26 - 2013-04-29 07:54:57 UTC
Quote:
Where's the storytelling? Where's the innovations in PVE to allow players to immerse themselves, at least to some extent, in the fiction?
You make no sense.
PvE provides no stories.
Players provide stories.

PvE doesn't provide any way to create new stories.
Players create *real* stories.

Stop hiding in a universe, which only exists in your head.
EvE is as real as any science fiction universe can get.
Lost True
Perkone
Caldari State
#27 - 2013-04-29 08:34:37 UTC
Well, PvE in eve is sucks, of course. It's actually not PvE most of the time, it's just grinding. And there is a difference.

I'm playing STO for it's PvE and a bit of roleplay, when i have a couple of not too busy months...

in 2007 i've thought it's a sci-fi simulator, not an "e-sports" game. I'm not a teenager, how would i like it much?
Angang Ostus
Brutor Tribe
Minmatar Republic
#28 - 2013-04-29 08:41:03 UTC
Solstice Project wrote:
Quote:
Where's the storytelling? Where's the innovations in PVE to allow players to immerse themselves, at least to some extent, in the fiction?
You make no sense.
PvE provides no stories.
Players provide stories.

PvE doesn't provide any way to create new stories.
Players create *real* stories.

Stop hiding in a universe, which only exists in your head.
EvE is as real as any science fiction universe can get.



Why does it have to be either/or? You do a great job of creating content. You're definitely telling your own story. That's awesome. We all want more of that. Most of us want to be part of the stories that players tell one way or another. Some of us just want other kinds of stories too. We want.....(sigh)I feel like I'm trying to describe the color blue to people who have never seen it and have no interest in it. That's fine. You see colors i can't see.

You don't have to understand. Just understand this. 40-60% of the people who play this game want what I want. We want it because it's IMPORTANT to US. We invest in this game too and we are a significant portion of the player base. We are tired of being neglected by CCP. We deserve better than for devs to sit on their hands as we are told to STFU and GTFO by people who think they are entitled to determine the direction of this game so that it meets their needs at the expense of others.

People who like PVE that has a story are not a virus that needs to be eradicated from EVE. The vast majority of us are on board for what this game is primarily about. We are different than you. We have some different interests. You are not better than us. That's diversity. You're so afraid that EVE will become a theme park. Guys....CCP is not going to let that happen. Clearly that's not the direction they're going. You get your iteration. It's time we get ours. HTFU
Brooks Puuntai
Solar Nexus.
#29 - 2013-04-29 08:44:09 UTC
Solstice Project wrote:
Quote:
Where's the storytelling? Where's the innovations in PVE to allow players to immerse themselves, at least to some extent, in the fiction?
You make no sense.
PvE provides no stories.
Players provide stories.

PvE doesn't provide any way to create new stories.
Players create *real* stories.

Stop hiding in a universe, which only exists in your head.
EvE is as real as any science fiction universe can get.


Yes and no.

CCP mechanics restrict the dynamic nature of the "storytelling" which also create a backdrop for players effecting the story of Eve. Storyline wise Eve should be in a perpetual state of war between the factions, however this is hardly felt in places like Highsec/Low. "Storytelling" doesn't necessarily have to be PVE based, but instead can be used to influence player interaction. People tend to forget this is a MMORPG expanding on storytelling aspect is a part of the game as well.

CCP's Motto: If it isn't broken, break it. If it is broken, ignore it. Improving NPE / Dynamic New Eden
Nessa Aldeen
First Among Equals
#30 - 2013-04-29 08:44:18 UTC
Angang Ostus wrote:
A lot of players love building and flying spaceships. Devs clearly love getting payed to geek out and make space stuff. But it's like the fact that this is all taking place in a fictional universe is just the bare bones justification for being able to fly spaceships and form online communities. Where's the storytelling? Where's the innovations in PVE to allow players to immerse themselves, at least to some extent, in the fiction? Where are ANY innovations in PVE to make it more dynamic and alive in order to at least give players a canvass on which their imaginations can fill in the gaps? And don't tell me to go play ****ing SWTOR.

It almost makes me want to go try GW2 instead focusing on a game in which my interest in sci fi immersion and PVE gameplay causes me to be dismissed as a role play carebear by a bunch of leet number crunchers. It annoys me to no end that so many EVE players hate sci fi. There's a sort of middle school-ish peer pressure to treat anything immersive as Santa Claus kid stuff. ****ing goons and other cynical leet "community born" pressure CCP to neglect immersive storytelling and dynamic PVE (and I mean just up to par with other MMOs) because it's not "emergent content" (and not about their stardom) etc. Such a ****ing waste of the world that CCP created.

Don't get me wrong. PVP in EVE is amazing. The sandbox is a thing of beauty. It's extremely awesome that some players have become famous and influential. The communities that have been formed are a unique thing in this world. And I want more people in 0.0 carving out little principalities and creating great dynamic emergent content as much as anyone. If that's where we're going then CCP needs seriously turn on the MWD and get us moving in that direction ASAP. In that case a lesser focus on empire PVE might make more sense.

But even if 0.0 were 10x as dynamic and populated as it is now it would still be great to have an environment in which the professional sci fi storytellers at CCP (who are getting payed for what? Maybe there's only one writer left) are able to tell the ongoing story of this world and give us interesting ways to be part of it. I love science fiction. I want science fiction stories that are woven into immersive gameplay. I don't want it from Mass Effect or Star Wars. i want it from EVE. Can SOMEONE tell me WHY that is so much to ask???!!!

Like banging my ****ing head against a wall.


This is not Dr Seuss. CCP is not here to tell you ABC story, you make your own. Now go back to your Korean MMO.
Gogela
Epic Ganking Time
CODE.
#31 - 2013-04-29 09:07:02 UTC
I listen to alestorm as I sink my sack into the ops mouth...

Signatures should be used responsibly...
Ihazcheez Hashur
Royal Amarr Institute
Amarr Empire
#32 - 2013-04-29 09:13:12 UTC
Eve to me is absolutely about the story line. I dont really know anything of this 'emergent story', but in essence, for me atleast, and my friends that Eve is a place for us to jump on skype, grab a beer or two, and have fun testing our new ship builds running Level 4 missions. I'd LOVE to be able to try some level 5 missions, that would be awesome... but none of us care for direct PvP, my only PvP experience was when I accidently went to a 0.4 system for a mission when I first started EvE, but certainly didn't experience the adrenaline of having my stuff destroyed because someone losing in a 1v1, calls friends and therefore me getting crushed in a 5v1 rush. One thing we have always joked about is that "PvP happens somewhere outside", we never go there! We have no interest in who owns tech moons or, yet another story of how some ass hat spooned someone over xyz and disbanded some corp none of us are familiar with.. anyway I digress... Level 4s are great, would love to try Level 5s but, CCP moved all the 5s "somewhere outside", but I agree with the OP, player storylines are all well and good, but honestly?.. the whole how, why's and awesomeness of NPC antagonists are the bread and butter of our Eve game, we love it and just the thought of embellishing it makes me a very happy pilot. I'd have to endorse any plan to liven it up.
Tesco Ergo Sum
#33 - 2013-04-29 09:14:09 UTC
I'd recommend looking at the kind of backdrop Eve gives for storytelling both in-game and out of game.

A great mix of the two can be found at Clear Skies

The meta game side of Eve isn't my favorite but is also another avenue for a VERY varied source of stories.
Elistea
BLUE Regiment.
#34 - 2013-04-29 09:18:19 UTC
Angang Ostus wrote:
A lot of players love building and flying spaceships. Devs clearly love getting payed to geek out and make space stuff. But it's like the fact that this is all taking place in a fictional universe is just the bare bones justification for being able to fly spaceships and form online communities. Where's the storytelling? Where's the innovations in PVE to allow players to immerse themselves, at least to some extent, in the fiction? Where are ANY innovations in PVE to make it more dynamic and alive in order to at least give players a canvass on which their imaginations can fill in the gaps? And don't tell me to go play ****ing SWTOR.

It almost makes me want to go try GW2 instead focusing on a game in which my interest in sci fi immersion and PVE gameplay causes me to be dismissed as a role play carebear by a bunch of leet number crunchers. It annoys me to no end that so many EVE players hate sci fi. There's a sort of middle school-ish peer pressure to treat anything immersive as Santa Claus kid stuff. ****ing goons and other cynical leet "community born" pressure CCP to neglect immersive storytelling and dynamic PVE (and I mean just up to par with other MMOs) because it's not "emergent content" (and not about their stardom) etc. Such a ****ing waste of the world that CCP created.

Don't get me wrong. PVP in EVE is amazing. The sandbox is a thing of beauty. It's extremely awesome that some players have become famous and influential. The communities that have been formed are a unique thing in this world. And I want more people in 0.0 carving out little principalities and creating great dynamic emergent content as much as anyone. If that's where we're going then CCP needs seriously turn on the MWD and get us moving in that direction ASAP. In that case a lesser focus on empire PVE might make more sense.

But even if 0.0 were 10x as dynamic and populated as it is now it would still be great to have an environment in which the professional sci fi storytellers at CCP (who are getting payed for what? Maybe there's only one writer left) are able to tell the ongoing story of this world and give us interesting ways to be part of it. I love science fiction. I want science fiction stories that are woven into immersive gameplay. I don't want it from Mass Effect or Star Wars. i want it from EVE. Can SOMEONE tell me WHY that is so much to ask???!!!

Like banging my ****ing head against a wall.


GTFO
Solstice Project
Sebiestor Tribe
Minmatar Republic
#35 - 2013-04-29 09:19:46 UTC
Angang Ostus wrote:
[quote=Solstice Project]40-60% of the people who play this game want what I want.
Okay, okay.
I get your point and you're not one of these dumb, demanding people, as i can see by your post.

That's fine.

But ... 40%-60% people who play this game. If this is the "majority is solo players" thingy,
then i'll just add you on the pile of people who simply don't understand what the words said.

Think about it. If it were that many actual people, then they'd all be dumb morons
because they play a game that totally doesn't cater to them and doesn't make them happy.
For YEARS.

The quote doesn't mean what most people think it means. Mostly because they read it in
exactly the way they want to read it.

Think. About. It.

Thanks.
Angang Ostus
Brutor Tribe
Minmatar Republic
#36 - 2013-04-29 09:21:55 UTC
Elistea wrote:
Angang Ostus wrote:
A lot of players love building and flying spaceships. Devs clearly love getting payed to geek out and make space stuff. But it's like the fact that this is all taking place in a fictional universe is just the bare bones justification for being able to fly spaceships and form online communities. Where's the storytelling? Where's the innovations in PVE to allow players to immerse themselves, at least to some extent, in the fiction? Where are ANY innovations in PVE to make it more dynamic and alive in order to at least give players a canvass on which their imaginations can fill in the gaps? And don't tell me to go play ****ing SWTOR.

It almost makes me want to go try GW2 instead focusing on a game in which my interest in sci fi immersion and PVE gameplay causes me to be dismissed as a role play carebear by a bunch of leet number crunchers. It annoys me to no end that so many EVE players hate sci fi. There's a sort of middle school-ish peer pressure to treat anything immersive as Santa Claus kid stuff. ****ing goons and other cynical leet "community born" pressure CCP to neglect immersive storytelling and dynamic PVE (and I mean just up to par with other MMOs) because it's not "emergent content" (and not about their stardom) etc. Such a ****ing waste of the world that CCP created.

Don't get me wrong. PVP in EVE is amazing. The sandbox is a thing of beauty. It's extremely awesome that some players have become famous and influential. The communities that have been formed are a unique thing in this world. And I want more people in 0.0 carving out little principalities and creating great dynamic emergent content as much as anyone. If that's where we're going then CCP needs seriously turn on the MWD and get us moving in that direction ASAP. In that case a lesser focus on empire PVE might make more sense.

But even if 0.0 were 10x as dynamic and populated as it is now it would still be great to have an environment in which the professional sci fi storytellers at CCP (who are getting payed for what? Maybe there's only one writer left) are able to tell the ongoing story of this world and give us interesting ways to be part of it. I love science fiction. I want science fiction stories that are woven into immersive gameplay. I don't want it from Mass Effect or Star Wars. i want it from EVE. Can SOMEONE tell me WHY that is so much to ask???!!!

Like banging my ****ing head against a wall.


GTFO


WE will not.
Solstice Project
Sebiestor Tribe
Minmatar Republic
#37 - 2013-04-29 09:22:16 UTC
Brooks Puuntai wrote:
Solstice Project wrote:
Quote:
Where's the storytelling? Where's the innovations in PVE to allow players to immerse themselves, at least to some extent, in the fiction?
You make no sense.
PvE provides no stories.
Players provide stories.

PvE doesn't provide any way to create new stories.
Players create *real* stories.

Stop hiding in a universe, which only exists in your head.
EvE is as real as any science fiction universe can get.


Yes and no.

CCP mechanics restrict the dynamic nature of the "storytelling" which also create a backdrop for players effecting the story of Eve. Storyline wise Eve should be in a perpetual state of war between the factions, however this is hardly felt in places like Highsec/Low. "Storytelling" doesn't necessarily have to be PVE based, but instead can be used to influence player interaction. People tend to forget this is a MMORPG expanding on storytelling aspect is a part of the game as well.
This reminds me of why i am such a huge fan of CCP SoundWave.

Too bad he doesn't get what he wants, else we'd have actual meaningfull factional warfare ...
... but maybe we just aren't there *yet*.
Stegas Tyrano
The Scope
Gallente Federation
#38 - 2013-04-29 09:27:18 UTC  |  Edited by: Stegas Tyrano
CCP Soundwave did mentioned in Dev Q&A Stream before fanfest, that he hates how player's can't govern or dictate the actions of the four empires, essentially creating a disconnect between the backstory and the players. Apart from the battle of Caldari Prime there isn't much players can do that effects the outcome of the story. Role-playing is boring because it involves applying too many limitations on yourself for no reward.

If roleplayers could be voted into government and could call the shots for their faction it would make the storyline a lot more dynamic and immersive. Ofcourse rules would have to be put into place to make sure some goonalt doesn't get voted in and declares a hulkageddon every other day.

Herping your derp since 19Potato - [url=https://forums.eveonline.com/default.aspx?g=posts&m=2403364][Proposal] - Ingame Visual Adverts[/url]
Masuka Taredi
Imperial Academy
Amarr Empire
#39 - 2013-04-29 09:27:43 UTC
Rhivre wrote:
Part of the point of eve is that the players ARE the story, and they make the story.

Yes, there is extensive lore, and background, but that is secondary to the story which players make themselves.

As was mentioned several times at FF....the stories and events of players are often better than the stories CCP come up with.

The new trailer even hints at the fall of the factions, and CCP seagull was giving hints towards more player based things.


Yes, CCP do events like the Battle for Caldari prime, but, unlike most other games, many events, storylines etc are best when done by players.


I agree with this wholeheartedly.
Tauranon
Weeesearch
CAStabouts
#40 - 2013-04-29 09:31:24 UTC  |  Edited by: Tauranon
Ihazcheez Hashur wrote:
Eve to me is absolutely about the story line. I dont really know anything of this 'emergent story', but in essence, for me atleast, and my friends that Eve is a place for us to jump on skype, grab a beer or two, and have fun testing our new ship builds running Level 4 missions. I'd LOVE to be able to try some level 5 missions, that would be awesome...


What you are asking for is an endless treadmill of slightly more difficult encounters that are mitigated by slightly improved gear, until you reach BIS for lots of your items and they have to go make a new expansion. There is a company that specialises in a game for that.

Note that despite being loss and combat averse I've done L5 missions, and DED 5s and 6s and all sorts of other lowsec content. I suggest that you start probing ded4s and running lookout, vigil and watch escalations and then see where the logical extension of that behavior takes you. Hint : I haven't actually ever lost a ship finishing the escalations - ie this stuff is all well within the grasp of the loss averse - and its all fun the first time round.