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Praetor Meles
Black Mount Industrial
Breakpoint.
#61 - 2013-04-27 20:33:35 UTC  |  Edited by: Praetor Meles
Dilbert HighSeed wrote:
T2 mfg has not been wiped out from high sec, but it is on the table.
The goon lead game designer has stated formally he wants to remove T2 mfg from high sec, and his position inside CCP has been strengthened in the last 6 months.


Okay, I'll bite. Or get bitten. Let's see.

So what if it is? As far as I can see, comparatively few people in Hisec are floating around in expensive T2 ships, far less PvPing (or even PvEing) in them. So, the T2 prices in Jita* go (further) through the roof. People who are currently buying T2 and exporting them to their own regions will now simply "buy local", as the clever bods will sell close to where they now manufacture (i.e. now in Low or Null instead of five jumps from Jita*). People who want cheaper T2 will go to Low/Null...and be forced to take a risk and interact with the people who live there.

If T2 manufacturing is removed, it will still be a level playing field for all those living only in Hisec as nobody will therefore be able to do it. And the people who do move to Low/Null to manufacture and research T2...well, isn't that just risk versus reward? A bigger carrot to tempt the resourceful and capable away from Hisec, 'tis all.

All those in favour, say "aye"!

* insert favourite trade hub here

[insert random rubbish that irritates you personally] is further evidence that Eve is dying/thriving*

  • delete as required to make your point
silens vesica
Corsair Cartel
#62 - 2013-04-27 20:33:54 UTC
Murk Paradox wrote:
silens vesica wrote:
Dilbert HighSeed wrote:
As predicted, a disaster for high sec.
'Cause Hi-Sec can't be bothered to get off its dead backside and vote. Apathy is its own punishment.

Quote:
This CSM will end up driving the final nails into high sec's coffin.
I am sure they will be high-fiving each other by Aug 2014, giggling at all the damage they have wrought with the largest meta-gank of the largest population of Eve.

You grant CSM far more power than is their due, yanno. I understand paranoia, but really, a bit of reading would dispel it; CSM has a seat at the table; it does not drive the agenda, nor does it make the decisions.


I'm fairly content with this CSM slate. Most of my candidates made it.



Just to get the tinfoil ready... but if you have a force on the CSM aligned with a dev.... things will go in their favor.

Not that it is guaranteed to, but yea...

The game as a whole is paramount regardless however.

Half the name son the list are those I've argued with, as well as voted for.

Let's see what happens =)
Indeed. Though I will point out there there is a LARGE amount of 'If' in the line I've bolded above. That could happen - but only if CCP agrees that that's the direction to go. Indeed, that is in part why the CSM exists - to help steer, even if they don't get final say.

Tell someone you love them today, because life is short. But scream it at them in Esperanto, because life is also terrifying and confusing.

Didn't vote? Then you voted for NulBloc
Velicitia
XS Tech
#63 - 2013-04-27 20:34:23 UTC
Dave Stark wrote:
Some Rando wrote:
It's a good list for the most part. Too bad P Monk didn't make it...

indeed.


+1

One of the bitter points of a good bittervet is the realisation that all those SP don't really do much, and that the newbie is having much more fun with what little he has. - Tippia
None ofthe Above
#64 - 2013-04-27 20:39:08 UTC
Velicitia wrote:
Dave Stark wrote:
Some Rando wrote:
It's a good list for the most part. Too bad P Monk didn't make it...

indeed.


+1


Agreed.

I think he's made a great basis for a CSM 9 run though. He came off as a little green, but very impressive. Hope to see him active throughout this year and run again.

Get on with the Podside crowd, Monk. That'll help you honing your presentation skills for the appearances next year.

The only end-game content in EVE Online is the crap that makes you rage quit.
Murk Paradox
Ministry of War
Amarr Empire
#65 - 2013-04-27 20:57:30 UTC
silens vesica wrote:
Murk Paradox wrote:
silens vesica wrote:
Dilbert HighSeed wrote:
As predicted, a disaster for high sec.
'Cause Hi-Sec can't be bothered to get off its dead backside and vote. Apathy is its own punishment.

Quote:
This CSM will end up driving the final nails into high sec's coffin.
I am sure they will be high-fiving each other by Aug 2014, giggling at all the damage they have wrought with the largest meta-gank of the largest population of Eve.

You grant CSM far more power than is their due, yanno. I understand paranoia, but really, a bit of reading would dispel it; CSM has a seat at the table; it does not drive the agenda, nor does it make the decisions.


I'm fairly content with this CSM slate. Most of my candidates made it.



Just to get the tinfoil ready... but if you have a force on the CSM aligned with a dev.... things will go in their favor.

Not that it is guaranteed to, but yea...

The game as a whole is paramount regardless however.

Half the name son the list are those I've argued with, as well as voted for.

Let's see what happens =)
Indeed. Though I will point out there there is a LARGE amount of 'If' in the line I've bolded above. That could happen - but only if CCP agrees that that's the direction to go. Indeed, that is in part why the CSM exists - to help steer, even if they don't get final say.



Yea my fear would be an unfair agenda. Hitting from 2 fronts to push whatever self serving goals that agenda contains.

Not that I'm bitter or pessimistic. I like this game and intend to play it as it unfolds.

But I'm not going to ignore the possibility. This is also WHY we have the CSM. So I guess you have 1 side saying "it's your fault for how you voted" but the flip side is that people who play casually are just as important as the hardcore, and any detriment to their game that is not "fairly" gained is well, unfortunate and sad =/.

This post has been signed by Murk Paradox and no other accounts, alternate or otherwise. Any other post claiming to be this holder's is subject to being banned at the discretion of the GM Team as it would violate the TOS in regards to impersonation. Signed, Murk Paradox. In triplicate.
Ruskarn Andedare
Lion Investments
#66 - 2013-04-27 21:35:34 UTC
As a fairly casual player most of the time (just a wee bit too much RL intrusion when I have work) I'm pretty happy with this CSM, most of the people I voted for are in.

Let's hope they can keep their love of EVE as a whole foremost in their thoughts.
silens vesica
Corsair Cartel
#67 - 2013-04-27 21:43:16 UTC  |  Edited by: silens vesica
Murk Paradox wrote:

So I guess you have 1 side saying "it's your fault for how you voted" but the flip side is that people who play casually are just as important as the hardcore, and any detriment to their game that is not "fairly" gained is well, unfortunate and sad =/.

True points - But the side pointing fingers (folks like me, to those whom failed to speak up) are absolutely right. If Hi-Sec can't be bothered to support their own interests, well, they're going to have to shut up and pray that those who did vote care to protect their apathetic backsides.

Which we probably will do, because they are important. But they're not going to get any special consideration unless the one or two (depending on how you interpret their stances) Hi-Sec CSM members are able to make up for the general apathy of Hi-Sec.

Tell someone you love them today, because life is short. But scream it at them in Esperanto, because life is also terrifying and confusing.

Didn't vote? Then you voted for NulBloc
LHA Tarawa
Pator Tech School
Minmatar Republic
#68 - 2013-04-27 21:49:11 UTC
silens vesica wrote:

If Hi-Sec can't be bothered to support their own interests, well, they're going to have to shut up and pray that those who did vote care to protect their apathetic backsides.


Or, they can just continue to rely on CCP to know where the revenue stream comes from.
silens vesica
Corsair Cartel
#69 - 2013-04-27 21:53:22 UTC
LHA Tarawa wrote:
silens vesica wrote:

If Hi-Sec can't be bothered to support their own interests, well, they're going to have to shut up and pray that those who did vote care to protect their apathetic backsides.


Or, they can just continue to rely on CCP to know where the revenue stream comes from.

Certainly possible - Though CCP is hardly fool-proof, either.

Tell someone you love them today, because life is short. But scream it at them in Esperanto, because life is also terrifying and confusing.

Didn't vote? Then you voted for NulBloc
LHA Tarawa
Pator Tech School
Minmatar Republic
#70 - 2013-04-27 22:02:04 UTC  |  Edited by: LHA Tarawa
Dilbert HighSeed wrote:

Well, high sec mining got hammered, which also means high sec mission looting got hammered.


It doesn't follow.

Yes, it will require fewer miners to supply null with low end minerals. As mineral prices drop, many currently mining will just switch back to mission running.

I see no reason to believe that mineral prices will stray far from mission/mine potential profit. The net effect on loot refine will be MUCH smaller than the removal of M0 was.

Perhaps, CCP will once and for all remove M1-4 drop and make those player invented/manufactured, reversing the extra low ends coming from null. Wrecks could drop items that are used in the invention process.

Also, do not forget the new capital rigs, which should serve as quite a demand boost to salvage demand and a boost for mission salvage.



Dilbert HighSeed wrote:

Ice mining is now in the hands of cartels with the resources/ pilots to control the supply.


We shall see. When I lived in null in the past, we did much of our ice mining there in null. 50% reduction in cycle times should drastically increase the ice coming from null. I am not convinced that high sec able to produce 80% of current usage is going to create much of a bottleneck on ice.

Again, the beauty is... we'll see soon enough.



Dilbert HighSeed wrote:

Suicide gankers now have "buy your sec status back".


And, someone is going to have to grind those tags. As CCP pointed out before, the time required to grind the tags should be about the same as it takes to grind standings back. I suspect that tag prices will keep this option to fairly limited usage. It's gonna be expensive.


Dilbert HighSeed wrote:

All changes were neutral to high sec income, or a transfer of wealth away from high sec.


Except the salvage boost from capital rigs. AND, I'm not convinced that the mineral changes won't hit high end minerals even harder than it hurts low end ore prices. If null miners start mining more B and C to get at the trit and pyrite, it could really crush the price of high end ores.


Dilbert HighSeed wrote:

And these transfers will just accelerate with the new CSM.


Assuming the conclusion. I think the null buffs are actually pretty minor.
Jenn aSide
Worthless Carebears
The Initiative.
#71 - 2013-04-27 22:02:17 UTC
Malcanis wrote:


If it's of any comfort to you, I unreservedly oppose any such compromise of the sandbox.


LOL, So I was curious as to your new sig Mal...

1 Kings 12:11-Yes, my father laid heavy burdens on you, but I'm going to make them even heavier! My father beat you with whips, but I will beat you with scorpions.

Scorpions? That shows a definite Caldari Bias. We need mor eGallente on CSM 9!
Trit
Republic Military School
Minmatar Republic
#72 - 2013-04-29 07:36:28 UTC
CSM is no longer relevent. Argueably it never was.

If CCP needs our opinion Mittani will start a threadnaught and give it to them.

Shine on Crazy Nubbins
dark heartt
#73 - 2013-04-29 07:39:51 UTC
Dilbert HighSeed wrote:
As predicted, a disaster for high sec.

This CSM will end up driving the final nails into high sec's coffin.
I am sure they will be high-fiving each other by Aug 2014, giggling at all the damage they have wrought with the largest meta-gank of the largest population of Eve.


What are you smoking? Trebor is in there, and Mangala will be reasonable on that topic. In any case what do you mean final nails? Coming from 2008 high sec is a whole heck of a lot safer now and I would say pretty balanced for new players.

http://tetrisisunrealistic.blogspot.com.au/
dark heartt
#74 - 2013-04-29 07:49:31 UTC
Dilbert HighSeed wrote:

The goon lead game designer has stated formally he wants to remove T2 mfg from high sec, and his position inside CCP has been strengthened in the last 6 months.


I'm sorry but anything you say is null and void by the fact that you think that someone who was formally in Goonswarm and now works for CCP would risk their job to do anything to help them. That is you being a master of the tinfoil and really not understanding anything.

http://tetrisisunrealistic.blogspot.com.au/
Malcanis
Vanishing Point.
The Initiative.
#75 - 2013-04-29 07:58:24 UTC
dark heartt wrote:
Dilbert HighSeed wrote:
As predicted, a disaster for high sec.

This CSM will end up driving the final nails into high sec's coffin.
I am sure they will be high-fiving each other by Aug 2014, giggling at all the damage they have wrought with the largest meta-gank of the largest population of Eve.


What are you smoking? Trebor is in there, and Mangala will be reasonable on that topic. In any case what do you mean final nails? Coming from 2008 high sec is a whole heck of a lot safer now and I would say pretty balanced for new players.


I'm afraid you haven't realised just how dastardly the sinister null sec cabal's plans are. The last 5 years of endless hi-sec buffs were merely to increase the size of the herd to be culled. More victims, more tears, you see?

In fact we'll probably keep it going for another year, just to make the final payoff extra big!

"Just remember later that I warned against any change to jump ranges or fatigue. You earned whats coming."

Grath Telkin, 11.10.2016
dark heartt
#76 - 2013-04-29 08:00:13 UTC
Malcanis wrote:
dark heartt wrote:
Dilbert HighSeed wrote:
As predicted, a disaster for high sec.

This CSM will end up driving the final nails into high sec's coffin.
I am sure they will be high-fiving each other by Aug 2014, giggling at all the damage they have wrought with the largest meta-gank of the largest population of Eve.


What are you smoking? Trebor is in there, and Mangala will be reasonable on that topic. In any case what do you mean final nails? Coming from 2008 high sec is a whole heck of a lot safer now and I would say pretty balanced for new players.


I'm afraid you haven't realised just how dastardly the sinister null sec cabal's plans are. The last 5 years of endless hi-sec buffs were merely to increase the size of the herd to be culled. More victims, more tears, you see?

In fact we'll probably keep it going for another year, just to make the final payoff extra big!


Oh man I would love to see that. It would be truly in the spirit of Eve for something like that to happen.

http://tetrisisunrealistic.blogspot.com.au/
ACE McFACE
Dirt 'n' Glitter
Local Is Primary
#77 - 2013-04-29 08:20:23 UTC
Now if only I could remember who I voted for...

Now, more than ever, we need a dislike button.
Murk Paradox
Ministry of War
Amarr Empire
#78 - 2013-04-29 15:12:46 UTC
silens vesica wrote:
Murk Paradox wrote:

So I guess you have 1 side saying "it's your fault for how you voted" but the flip side is that people who play casually are just as important as the hardcore, and any detriment to their game that is not "fairly" gained is well, unfortunate and sad =/.

True points - But the side pointing fingers (folks like me, to those whom failed to speak up) are absolutely right. If Hi-Sec can't be bothered to support their own interests, well, they're going to have to shut up and pray that those who did vote care to protect their apathetic backsides.

Which we probably will do, because they are important. But they're not going to get any special consideration unless the one or two (depending on how you interpret their stances) Hi-Sec CSM members are able to make up for the general apathy of Hi-Sec.



This is where we see the CSM become players and not pilots. They should represent the entire pie, not just a slice.

This post has been signed by Murk Paradox and no other accounts, alternate or otherwise. Any other post claiming to be this holder's is subject to being banned at the discretion of the GM Team as it would violate the TOS in regards to impersonation. Signed, Murk Paradox. In triplicate.
De'Veldrin
Republic University
Minmatar Republic
#79 - 2013-04-29 15:33:46 UTC
Gratz everyone.

De'Veldrin's Corollary (to Malcanis' Law): Any idea that seeks to limit the ability of a large nullsec bloc to do something in the name of allowing more small groups into sov null will inevitably make it that much harder for small groups to enter sov null.
Haulie Berry
#80 - 2013-04-29 15:39:09 UTC
Dilbert HighSeed wrote:
As predicted, a disaster for high sec.

This CSM will end up driving the final nails into high sec's coffin.
I am sure they will be high-fiving each other by Aug 2014, giggling at all the damage they have wrought with the largest meta-gank of the largest population of Eve.


I mostly play in high sec.

Everyone I voted for (I did not fill my whole ticket) made it, except P. Monk.