EVE General Discussion

LOL, yeah, I'm a big fan of real world money. Though, Eve is my favorite inexpensive way to kill 4 hours (that doesn't require birth control) , so I want Eve to be healthy and vital when I return.

Maybe high-sec is just so vested in this game (because they've already paid so much) that they will continue paying for our addiction FOREVER. Or maybe they died and no one cancelled their credit cards. :-)

My meaning was that there are very many viable options in hi-sec. I'm not sure why you're reacting so badly to the addition of a few of those options to 0.0

Can you give an example of a hi-sec profession that will no longer be viable with Odessey? The only thing that is being lost is a playstyle, and I for one will not mourn the departure of AFK ice mining. I realise that having to put in a tiny bit of thought, and maybe even engage with a moeity of player interaction will come as a shock to many, and it will initially be perceived as a "nerf", but I'm sure the significantly improved income will help soften the blow.

Or are you referring to low end minerals? Increasing 0.0's ability to supply all the low ends it needs from ~0.2% to ~2% is a mathematically large change, I agree, but I venture to suggest that the effect on hi-sec miners won't be as dramatic as you're assuming.

fail post deleted. lost all my typing. Will try again.

If I was wrong about your meaning, ok. But this debate has been going on for years (as well as in that dev blog forum thread) and in the past we've seen peole suggest far more radical changes to incentivize null and to neuter high-sec. Let's measure the effects of this (non-dramatic?) "resource shake-up" and change that debate from an opinion based quasi-religious debate to an argument based on OBSERVABLE data. I don't think I'm reacting badly, I think I'm just tired of seeing people suggesting things that might chase away CCP's high-sec customers because they aren't playing the way they think they should, without any data to substantiate their argument (and having no data to substantiate my argument).

As far as semi-afk play, if you make all of high-sec fully involving, expect to lose 100,000 alt accounts. When I play fully involving games, I don't need alt accounts. Can you imagine why high-seccers would? Maybe I'm wrong. Before I fell in love with Sovereign warfare, I played 6 accounts in high-sec because that's what it takes to keep me almost fully involved in some high-sec activities. Making the game more frenetic and fully-involving would be good if you were designing a new game. I'm not sure it's good for preserving CCP's high-sec cash cow, though you can certainly make an argument that improving the game might attract new players and so it could be a wash, or even a win.

As far as Null-sec industrialism, I'm going to start a new topic in General Discussion, in a few minutes titled: If Null-sec industrialism is broken, it might not be CCP's fault.

If I've missed a clarification please forgive me, it's getting late, but I think your point of view is just slightly off.

While this might provide some incentive for purely high sec characters to move to null, that would be a side effect.

Instead these changes are intended to make null sec industry viable, perhaps even preferable over having an industry alt in high sec to make your money. Most of the characters heading to Null sec to begin industry in earnest will be the alts of people who have their main combat character in Null. So yes, numbers of industrialists will probably swell, but not necessarily the number of formerly high sec only players.

Now it's entirely possible that if things go well enough we might eventually see Null sec organizations actively recruiting members or renters with a primarily industrial focus from high sec. However you seem to think that CCP has some sort of agenda to turn high sec only care bears into Null sec citizens. If that were the goal they would approach this in a much different manner, and it doesn't jibe well with Soundwaves views on the subject.

Edit: Agenda aside, I do agree that those numbers would be interesting to have.

Look, there are two kinds of people in null that keep getting CCP to hammer high sec.

There are the zealots who are bent on destroying high sec as an entity, who truly believe that Eve would be a better game if the high sec players were eradicated from the player base. They believe that null sec play is the only "true" method to play Eve, and view all other players with utter contempt and hatred.

Then there are the others, who mouth platitudes like "Eve is an ecosystem", " Eve is a sandbox" , or "We are only interested in balancing the game fairly for all". These are the deceivers who campaign (or have their wives tell them to run and then get massive null blocs to vote for them, and these null blocs would vote for a chimp if told to) to get on the CSM.

This 2nd group, once on the CSM, then, behind the scenes, continue to lobby their buddies already working at CCP (tell me, when was the last time CCP hired a dev / game designer who claimed they were essentially a high sec player, and espoused that play style as a valid way to play the game?) to divert more and more of the wealth of the game to the null sec cartels. They do everything they can to get CCP to maintain or create new strangleholds on resources. The ISK raised through these strangleholds then flows through the hands of a very, very small cabal of null sec cartel members, who can then do what they like with the funds, and they can be quite "creative", shall we say.

Let's examine the "resource re-balancing" that we just learned about.

227 new R-64 moons are being seeded for the June 4th release. Apparently tech as a chokepoint is dead. But guess what.? New chokepoints will just use the EXISTING MECHANIC. The cartels will very quickly control the new 227 moons and nothing has changed in that regard.

Now let's look at ice. A NEW chokepoint was created with the changes to the ice mining mechanic, which allows highly organized groups that cover all TZ's to mine out the newly spawning belts in minutes, and at the same time bumping/ destroying all non-allied ice mining boats from the belts. I wonder what groups have demonstrated the ability to intimidate people away from a resource in order to interdict the supply? In this case, they will soon control the new "oil of Eve", as the goon lead designer stated he wanted ice to be.

And lastly, let's examine the wonderfully democratic creation of the ability of null miners to outmine by a MASSIVE margin high sec miners, completely wiping out the need to import low end ores into null sec. So supposedly a new null sec mining industry will be created, and incidentally at the same time wipe out high sec mining income by 33-50% (published goon numbers BTW). Fair enough. Of course, all those mineral have to be refined, likely at Minnie stations. So who gets to control the refine tax on those stations? A very, very small group. The same group that control the moon goo income. Another new income stream that flows through the hands of a very small cabal.

The first group, the null sec zealots bent on destroying high sec, they are bad, really bad.

But this second group, they are even more dangerous. They are far from stupid. They are smooth. They are great manipulators, speakers, and writers. But their avarice knows no bounds, and they are far more dangerous to high sec, and the overall well-being of the game as a whole.

High sec is doomed. By the time the 2014 summer release comes out, high sec will be a wasteland with few people in it being able to earn a decent income, outside of the null sec ice miners and maybe the traders, though Jita will be a shadow of what it is is today as a trade hub.

And if you'd actually read any of what we've been saying you'd realize that this is actually something we were trying to avoid.
We're not to blame for this.

It is titled "We are the 99%". :-)

Missed this the first time.

Null sec had no shortage of *available* tritium when I was out there. It was swimming in Veldspar and Scordite asteroids. Big rocks that you can mine far longer than in high sec. Sometimes gigantic rocks that can send you bouncing far away if you try to warp to zero. What null-sec was lacking was enough people willing to hang their hulks' asses out in space waiting to get destroyed while they mined an ore that was available in high-sec. Now they can get trit for mining the good stuff (ABC). We're going to be making it SAFER to gather trit in null-sec because it won't hurt as much to lose an occassional ship compared to mining Veldspar in null. (ABC mins will pay back ship costs far faster than mining Veld. We'll get to have our cake and eat it too).

Uh, dude, I've probably flown with you. Look at my employment history and consider alliance and coalition relations over those times.

as far as my "area", look at my killboard. I fly Scorpions in strategic ops.... thus, I've died nearly everywhere. LOL

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Scorpions, the unparrallelled choice of pilots who didn't want to stay up late.

I became a Scorpion pilot because my FCs wouldn't let me name my DPS ships "Primary".