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Save your PI now!!
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Liam Money
Pator Tech School
Minmatar Republic
#1 - 2011-10-31 21:15:11 UTC
For all of those that are watching the value of POS fuels increase, save your POS fuels, don't sell. Stockpile that stuff until Winter my friends, keep making it, but don't sell it. CCP will be making PI only accessible to super rich super powers of EVE online. No more isks for you folks that just want to make a buck. Now attacking your POS fuel resources will be the new "thing" for PvP, with alliances scrambling like headless chickens to defend the lifeblood of their dominance. Unless you can fend off an alliance with your industrial your either going to have to pay a hefty tax to do PI or maybe cut off from the planet all together if you have bad standings, oh noes!!. Well of course you can do PI in high sec, but hell we all know there isn't any production in that, those planets have squat on them and CONCORD will tax you to death just to do it. So if you want in on the last true gasps of PI and you don't belong to a super mega power of EVE, do it now and stock up on coolant and robotics, cause this **** is going to be worth a fortune come March.

Enjoy!!

Now back to the market for PI purchase orders.
Skunk Gracklaw
Caldari Provisions
Caldari State
#2 - 2011-10-31 21:58:45 UTC
Liam Money wrote:
CCP will be making PI only accessible to super rich super powers of EVE online.

Good. I was tired of the little people having access to it.
Kato Matsu
Ministry of War
#3 - 2011-10-31 22:26:06 UTC
If creating POCOs is CCP's way of moving more players into low/null sec then they will fail. Even with the changes to PI all of my planets will continue to be located in high sec. The doubled tax rates will decrease my profits, but that's the cost of (relative Blink ) safety.

I would compare it to the NPC corp taxes being 11%. You lose over a tenth of your mission rewards and bounties to it but you are immune to being wardecced. You trade profit for less risk.

I think the saying goes "Fortune favors the bold". Well, if you are bold enough to venture into low/null sec then you deserve a reward.
Tenchi Sal
White Knights of Equestria
#4 - 2011-11-01 00:07:45 UTC
ccp said that 50% of all PI is done in high sec. im pretty sure prices are gonna go up but so will demand. im pretty sure the newer, higher prices, will just mean that it will cover the tax increase in high sec.
Alisarina
Center for Advanced Studies
Gallente Federation
#5 - 2011-11-01 06:00:22 UTC
With the new incoming double tax on PI exports in high sec the market will just become more expensive to absorb it so people are making their profits. Thinking the prices will remain static is just plain ignorance of a fluid market and economy.

Now in Low and Null sec the taxes are more than likely going to be higher for places with no Sov and with places in Sov space the taxes will possibly be lower or none existent for the owning corps and alliance (assuming you can get differing taxes for your corp/alliance and Joe Blow off the street.

If CCP is wanting to move more of PI out of high sec and more into low/null sec there will have to be an even greater incentive to do that than just doubling the taxes, as that extra charge will just be tacked onto the sales price when the product is sold.

I do agree with teh OP in saying this:

Stock up on what you need now or closer to the Winter expansion and sell off a week after it hits or so to make bank or be secure in your PoS fuels because the prices will only go up. Also stock up on the Customs Office materials as they will be in demand for those that forget to get prepared now.
Tinu Moorhsum
Random Events
#6 - 2011-11-01 09:46:58 UTC  |  Edited by: Tinu Moorhsum
Liam Money wrote:
For all of those that are watching the value of POS fuels increase, save your POS fuels, don't sell. Stockpile that stuff until Winter my friends, keep making it, but don't sell it. CCP will be making PI only accessible to super rich super powers of EVE online. No more isks for you folks that just want to make a buck. Now attacking your POS fuel resources will be the new "thing" for PvP, with alliances scrambling like headless chickens to defend the lifeblood of their dominance. Unless you can fend off an alliance with your industrial your either going to have to pay a hefty tax to do PI or maybe cut off from the planet all together if you have bad standings, oh noes!!. Well of course you can do PI in high sec, but hell we all know there isn't any production in that, those planets have squat on them and CONCORD will tax you to death just to do it. So if you want in on the last true gasps of PI and you don't belong to a super mega power of EVE, do it now and stock up on coolant and robotics, cause this **** is going to be worth a fortune come March.

Enjoy!!

Now back to the market for PI purchase orders.


LOL ... well... in fact, I would suggest learning how to probe for worm holes. there are thousands upon thousands of wormholes in EVE and THAT is where you'll make your money.

In fact, I love the idea that nullsec alliances will be able to make passive money from PI. It means better ship reimbursement and more GF's for dedicated pilots because people are risking less isk in the process of bashing each others brains out. This may cause inflation but we'll see if that happens or that the tempo of PVP increases (I hope for the latter)

For the rest of us, it's a gold mine. You'll see inflation of PI material prices, at least on the short term, and if you're already in a WH grinding that sh-t then you should be giggling like a school girl and jumping up and down in joy because of this coming patch. The increase in POS fuel prices can be compensated for at a corp level and I only see difficulties in this area on the horizon for lone-wolf players who don't want to join a corp and who still expect to make the same isk from PI as in the past.

So join a corp, go in a worm hole and get rich.

Yes... it's that simple.

T-
VaMei
Meafi Corp
#7 - 2011-11-01 11:13:40 UTC
@OP

Thanks, I needed a LOL to start my dayLol
Hundo Kay
Caldari Provisions
Caldari State
#8 - 2011-11-01 19:13:52 UTC
Tenchi Sal wrote:
ccp said that 50% of all PI is done in high sec. im pretty sure prices are gonna go up but so will demand. im pretty sure the newer, higher prices, will just mean that it will cover the tax increase in high sec.


50% of what? Yet another meaningless stat.

I doubt 50% of Raw Materials entering the game are coming from HS

Maybe 50% of the Advanced Factories making P4 goods are in HS

Sure maybe 50% of Command Centers are in HS (and 50% of those are dormant and probably never destroyed from people who tried it and quit)

So this is yet another meaningless stat.
Akrasjel Lanate
Immemorial Coalescence Administration
Immemorial Coalescence
#9 - 2011-11-01 19:28:01 UTC
Liam Money wrote:
For all of those that are watching the value of POS fuels increase, save your POS fuels, don't sell. Stockpile that stuff until Winter my friends, keep making it, but don't sell it. CCP will be making PI only accessible to super rich super powers of EVE online. No more isks for you folks that just want to make a buck. Now attacking your POS fuel resources will be the new "thing" for PvP, with alliances scrambling like headless chickens to defend the lifeblood of their dominance. Unless you can fend off an alliance with your industrial your either going to have to pay a hefty tax to do PI or maybe cut off from the planet all together if you have bad standings, oh noes!!. Well of course you can do PI in high sec, but hell we all know there isn't any production in that, those planets have squat on them and CONCORD will tax you to death just to do it. So if you want in on the last true gasps of PI and you don't belong to a super mega power of EVE, do it now and stock up on coolant and robotics, cause this **** is going to be worth a fortune come March.

Enjoy!!

Now back to the market for PI purchase orders.

Why are you teling it them, there will be less for us.

CEO of Lanate Industries

Citizen of Solitude
Scrapyard Bob
EVE University
Ivy League
#10 - 2011-11-01 19:40:59 UTC
If tariff fees go up - end result prices will go up.

And you'll have to be a bit more careful to avoid any import/export step where possible, such as setting up colonies to go from P2->P4 or from P1->P3 rather then doing each step on a separate planet.

The P2/P3/P4 market is generally very rational and people are able to quickly switch inputs/outputs to chase a more profitable combine if their current product no longer makes enough profit. The colony layout is identical, the hassle lies in switching around your schematics and then importing the right inputs.

The P2/P3 that are not profitable are either things that used to be NPC sold (with huge stockpiles at low cost) or products that are not in enough demand. The P4 is more about supply vs demand where the low-margin products are those that don't get consumed as often as the others.
Cyniac
Federal Navy Academy
Gallente Federation
#11 - 2011-11-02 10:10:01 UTC
Market manipulation attempts usually go into MD.

Consider this little fact. If the tax rates go above 10% (double of what it is now) it becomes interesting to just launch goods into space without using the customs station at all. (Dare I call it smuggling? We are bypassing customs after all!).

This may cause panic amongst the lemmings but I doubt that it will have a huge effect on PI output (fear however, can have a major effect on markets, so good luck with that)
Killstealing
Brutor Tribe
Minmatar Republic
#12 - 2011-11-02 12:27:26 UTC
Skunk Gracklaw wrote:
Liam Money wrote:
CCP will be making PI only accessible to super rich super powers of EVE online.

Good. I was tired of the little people having access to it.

damn midgets
Alisarina
Center for Advanced Studies
Gallente Federation
#13 - 2011-11-02 23:20:44 UTC
Cyniac wrote:
Market manipulation attempts usually go into MD.

Consider this little fact. If the tax rates go above 10% (double of what it is now) it becomes interesting to just launch goods into space without using the customs station at all. (Dare I call it smuggling? We are bypassing customs after all!).




This along with the bonus to the link capacity (think it was mentioned at 5x) makes this VERY viable over a high tax POCO, assuming you don't have a Launch Pad as your 'end point' of production of course, if you do have a LP as end point, then it doesn't really effect you too much.)

Another thing along the lines of the 5x capacity of links. It will make gas giants more inviting to be used due to loosing less PG/CPU to get your crap from point A to point B, making it possible to possibly have more extractor heads or factories or what-have-you. I know I tend to steer clear of gas giants due to this (though no avoid them if the hot spot is insanely good like in a WH).
Barakach
Caldari Provisions
Caldari State
#14 - 2011-11-03 17:33:06 UTC
The current tax only eats into about 1%-2% of my net profit, which is about 25mil/day for 5 planets in high sec with lvl 4 pwg. Doubling that isn't going to do crap for me.

With my current setup, I only have to check in on my PI about every 3 days.

It's not all gloom and doom for all of us.
Sephiroth Clone VII
Brothers of Tyr
Goonswarm Federation
#15 - 2011-11-06 22:59:22 UTC
The guess of prices increasing could be on its mark. If other factors contribute too.

I heard something about needing to set up a launch pad in null and lowsec. Could that increase costs?

But taxes on-themselves will do little, a small increase? Taxes are a very minor part regardless of what doing if a factory, extractor or both.

extracting the items will be worth way more then the cost of exporting them (and if they increase in price then, more isk)

factory, the cost of the items put in is the largest cost always.

Though this assuming you do it smart and avoid inefficient inport exporting, turning P0 into at least P1 and mabey P2

for factory making end products start with P2 and go into P4. If you export p0 to the market, or buy it to make into p1, ammar god can't save you.
Alisarina
Center for Advanced Studies
Gallente Federation
#16 - 2011-11-06 23:45:22 UTC
The thing that your not following Sephiroth is in Low/Null sec the tax can be set anywhere from no tax to 100% export tax. Now I don't know how much that will be for 100% tax on the goods but I DO know that the said tax will be tacked onto the final product making some planets or entire systems totally un-usable from a profit making standpoint for some oft eh already low profit goods, or cutting so deep into potential profits as to not make them worth the effort.

The price of goods going up now is just anticipation and possibly speculation.

Sure high sec gets double the tax we currently have in high sec, but as soemone said 50% of PI is done in HS (I dont know if that number is right but lets assume it is for arguments sake) then it will just become the standard 'tack on' price. It's not as bad as people make it out to be though so I wouldn't worry too much about it. If your extracting in HS, you may want to look into some different set ups due to possible lowering of profit margins but nothing to stress out about and nothing to act on right now. The factory worlds will be the hardest hit I would assume with higher taxes and such but that's just a guess.
Scrapyard Bob
EVE University
Ivy League
#17 - 2011-11-07 01:42:42 UTC
Alisarina wrote:
The thing that your not following Sephiroth is in Low/Null sec the tax can be set anywhere from no tax to 100% export tax. Now I don't know how much that will be for 100% tax on the goods but I DO know that the said tax will be tacked onto the final product making some planets or entire systems totally un-usable from a profit making standpoint for some oft eh already low profit goods, or cutting so deep into potential profits as to not make them worth the effort.


Tariff - not tax. (Taxes are generally a percentage of sell value, tariffs are a flat fee charged per unit.)

The existing tariffs on PI goods are supposedly about equivalent to a 5% tariff setting on the new POCOs.

I did a market analysis in the POCO thread, basically - expect that all PI will go up about 30-40% in price long-term compared to what it was before, with a short-term spike of much higher 60-80% above historical averages would not be unlikely.
Invictra Atreides
Toward the Terra
#18 - 2011-11-07 03:14:45 UTC
Tinu Moorhsum wrote:
Liam Money wrote:
For all of those .... TEXT
...
Enjoy!!

Now back to the market for PI purchase orders.


LOL ... well... in fact, I would suggest learning how to probe for worm holes. there are thousands upon thousands of wormholes in EVE and THAT is where you'll make your money.


There are 2500+ wormhole systems.

Blog | Tutorials | Youtube "I don’t know everything, I just know what I know."
trianna Ekanon
The Spawning Pool
#19 - 2011-11-07 07:50:52 UTC
Hundo Kay wrote:
Tenchi Sal wrote:
ccp said that 50% of all PI is done in high sec. im pretty sure prices are gonna go up but so will demand. im pretty sure the newer, higher prices, will just mean that it will cover the tax increase in high sec.


50% of what? Yet another meaningless stat.

I doubt 50% of Raw Materials entering the game are coming from HS

Maybe 50% of the Advanced Factories making P4 goods are in HS

Sure maybe 50% of Command Centers are in HS (and 50% of those are dormant and probably never destroyed from people who tried it and quit)

So this is yet another meaningless stat.



I'd be willing to bet that for p2,3,4 goods that are market bound (not internally consumed) 95%+ are made in highsec.
trianna Ekanon
The Spawning Pool
#20 - 2011-11-07 07:53:45 UTC
Scrapyard Bob wrote:
Alisarina wrote:
The thing that your not following Sephiroth is in Low/Null sec the tax can be set anywhere from no tax to 100% export tax. Now I don't know how much that will be for 100% tax on the goods but I DO know that the said tax will be tacked onto the final product making some planets or entire systems totally un-usable from a profit making standpoint for some oft eh already low profit goods, or cutting so deep into potential profits as to not make them worth the effort.


Tariff - not tax. (Taxes are generally a percentage of sell value, tariffs are a flat fee charged per unit.)

The existing tariffs on PI goods are supposedly about equivalent to a 5% tariff setting on the new POCOs.

I did a market analysis in the POCO thread, basically - expect that all PI will go up about 30-40% in price long-term compared to what it was before, with a short-term spike of much higher 60-80% above historical averages would not be unlikely.


I don't see it happening. Import/Export taxes are the only thing going up in highsec and they're still just a small fraction of total cost. The only ones that will truly budge more than 10% are ones associated with making the new customs office, pos fueld will more than likely stay very close to the same. Granted anyone who actually makes pos fuels on a scale other than laughable already knows which pos fuel markets are totally ******** at the moment anyways.
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