EVE General Discussion

I'm repeating this slice of a previous post in the Odyssey resource shake-up thread and hoping people will express an interest in such a census to CCP, as well as an interest in them publishing the results. While I am skeptical of what I call flogging high-sec players into null-sec, the CSM, CCP and the player population needs to know if such measures succeed or not in their intent.

It will be over 9000.

How many times do they have to tell us "if you can fly it now, you can fly it afterwards"?

All the time wasted at dwelling on this nonsense, when we could just all ask CCP "We can has SP remap, after patch?"....

Indeed. There seem to be a dedicated group of people in all security zones in this game that seem to take any change, minor or major, as a personal attack on them and where they play. So I'm going to leave this piece of wisdom that covers all MMOs for the OP (and people like the OP) - The single guaranteed thing that will always happen in any MMO is that it will change. And if you can't adapt to that change then you will be left behind, like trash in the gutter. In short - Change or Die.

the post I sliced that from was after Malcanis suggested that someone moved my cheese and I should adapt.

Others in the dev round-up thread also seem to think the intent is to incentivize high-sec players into null-sec, as well as some posters who seem to think it will work.

I'm just saying this is a PERFECT TIME to see if it works. We shouldn't waste this opportunity.

Fine advice, I've seen it before (including from my own typing fingers) and I disagree with none of it.

I love null-sec, and the moment I develop the minimum amount of real world leisure for it I'll be back. Look at my killboard. I've died EVERYWHERE! :-)

My concern is whether we can make high-sec less important and still keep all those subscriptions. I'd LOVE it if they all came out to null-sec. But it is also my firm belief from a long gaming career you can't make true carebears LIKE PvP and you can't make loners like teamwork.

No, I'm suggesting that you're asking for a test without knowing what you're actually testing for.

I'd say the intent is to make it actually worthwhile for miner industrialists and especially production industrialists to operate in nullsec, not to get X numbers of players into null or whatever the heck. Currently the majority of nullsec players interested in industry do it in highsec because null industry is just that broken.

So your census is fine if you include that (IE, take into account industrialist alts of null players that currently do industry in high that move their activities back to null, not merely pure highsec industrialists that decide to try out 0.0). So the methodology in that quote is wrong already as they are automatically throwing out people who are currently in nullsec/lowsec on some characters. You'd throw out current nullsec industrialists, not current nullsec players. I'd personally at least be interested in seeing if the nullsec industrialists migrate back to null, however if they don't I might conclude differently than you and say the changes weren't strong enough

And on less scientific matters, providing a worthwhile economic incentive to actually risk your industrial ship in an area of space with no guaranteed NPC reprisal is not "flogging" or "forcing" anyone to move to any area of space. Highsec mining was never intended to be not only the best ISK/effort but also sometimes even the best ISK/hour of mining. So as comfortable as you may have been with the new status quo after rogue drone alloy removal it was never within the spirit of eve, you are not being "forced" anywhere. Aside from actually moving out of highsec you can continue mining at the new rate, swap professions to one of the many still very profitable occupations in highsec such as factory PI, production, trade, incursions, L4s, or even highsec exploration. Heck, scam nullsec players if you really have an axe to grind!

While I understand the assumptions you're making about me, as far as my play, you are way off-base. I prefer null-sec and I prefer PvP in null-sec. If I have the real world leisure, that's where you'll find me. Currently though I only have about 45 minutes a day to play. No decent null-sec corp can use me at 45 minutes a day. That's like 2 steps below being casual friendly. I understand that, and am happy cashing real world checks instead. Having started out as a high-sec industrialist though, I think I know them pretty well and I worry about how much we can make them unneeded and still watch them pay their subscriptions. The Odyssey changes will have ZERO effect on me as I am waiting for my annual subscription to run out (unless I lose a contract/job/all-my-friends before then). My 45 minutes a night is spent in SWTOR, because the activities available at 45 minutes a day in Eve are simply less entertaining to me than SWTOR (or even PlanetSide). I am very very eager to return to Eve and null when I develop more leisure, though.

But I would like to MEASURE the effects of these kinds of changes rather than having people (including me) just proselytizing like religious zealots. Measuring it differently than I described may well be a better way to do it. But let's seize the opprtunity to measure the effects.

According to the voting thing blog it was 409,600 +/- 200 at the time of voting. Or there abouts.