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Why your CSM8 vote doesn't matter...

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Frying Doom
#321 - 2013-04-09 00:47:54 UTC
Eternum Praetorian wrote:
Ai Shun wrote:


Sorry mate, I know you desperately want to be right on this one but from what is written on the CSM and documented about their processes you are not.



Bullshit...mate. The CSM does not have the authority to reject an idea that is both well worded and has a notable following--and then choose not bring said idea to the table at CCP. He/she may do so anyway, but that is not in their actual authority. Sorry. No way no how.

Maybe you can point to this fact in the white paper, where they have to pay attention to a crap idea, no matter how good the following.

Any spelling, grammatical and punctuation errors are because frankly, I don't care!!
Eternum Praetorian
Doomheim
#322 - 2013-04-09 01:07:20 UTC
Frying Doom wrote:

Maybe you can point to this fact in the white paper, where they have to pay attention to a crap idea, no matter how good the following.



Any well worded, well thought out idea that has a notable (or sizable) following by the playerbase, is meant to be brought before CCP. CCP decides the merit of the idea, and whether or not said idea is feasible. The CSM does not. The CSM is just a representative.



It can't be more clear. You are just stubborn somehow bred with stupid.

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Frying Doom
#323 - 2013-04-09 01:29:34 UTC  |  Edited by: Frying Doom
Eternum Praetorian wrote:
Frying Doom wrote:

Maybe you can point to this fact in the white paper, where they have to pay attention to a crap idea, no matter how good the following.



Any well worded, well thought out idea that has a notable (or sizable) following by the playerbase, is meant to be brought before CCP. CCP decides the merit of the idea, and whether or not said idea is feasible. The CSM does not. The CSM is just a representative.



It can't be more clear. You are just stubborn somehow bred with stupid.

Can you point to where it says in the white paper where the CSM, has to pay attention to any idea?

Or where it says that the CSM must show any idea to the CSM?

Any spelling, grammatical and punctuation errors are because frankly, I don't care!!
Eternum Praetorian
Doomheim
#324 - 2013-04-09 01:52:04 UTC  |  Edited by: Eternum Praetorian
I think the Frying Doom Bot is falling into some kind of weird feedback loop. It is now not making any sense at all.

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Frying Doom
#325 - 2013-04-09 01:56:36 UTC
Eternum Praetorian wrote:
I think the Frying Doom Bot is falling into some kind of weird feedback loop. It is now not making any sense at all.

So in another word you cannot point to any part of the white paper that says the CSM has to pay attention to a stupid idea.

So NO a " well thought out idea that has a notable (or sizable) following by the playerbase, is meant to be brought before CCP"

If you want your voice heard as a player you vote, or you get CCPs attention your self.

At which point CCP will ask the CSM what they think of the idea, and how do you think that will go? Lol

Any spelling, grammatical and punctuation errors are because frankly, I don't care!!
Ai Shun
#326 - 2013-04-09 02:24:35 UTC
Eternum Praetorian wrote:
Ai Shun wrote:


Sorry mate, I know you desperately want to be right on this one but from what is written on the CSM and documented about their processes you are not.



Bullshit...mate. The CSM does not have the authority to reject an idea that is both well worded and has a notable following--and then choose not bring said idea to the table at CCP. He/she may do so anyway, but that is not in their actual authority. Sorry. No way no how.


The official documentation on the CSM and the guides on how to raise topics with the CSM and the outcomes thereof contradicts your claim. As does the overview of the Assembly Hall.

CCP Spitfire wrote:
In order to raise an issue, simply create a new thread. In the title write a brief description and in the body, give as many details about your idea as possible. Any person replying to the thread can check a box to show support for the issue, which provides at-a-glance on the thread listing how supported an idea is. If a CSM member wants to raise an issue in a meeting, they are only allowed to select issues arising from threads in the Assembly hall, and only threads that are at least a week old.

When a CSM member selects the issue, they must create a page in the EVE wiki, condensing all the forum input into a solid idea that can then be voted upon.

Out of all the issues that pass, the CSM brings them to CCP, who removes all the issues that are moot, and talks with the CSM about the remainder. At this point, a relevant employee in CCP is assigned the issue and asked to do some research on it- is it feasible? is it a good idea? Such answers are found and returned to the CSM during the CSM-CCP meetings online and in Iceland. Issues that pass are added to CCP's "backlog"- that is, their to-do list for implementation in the game.


Note "If a CSM member wants to raise an issue" (Up to their judgement to pick from the topics; your topic may never get picked) and "out of all the issues that pass" (There are issues that don't pass for a variety of different reasons, not just the select few you choose because they support your misinformed viewpoint).

Again, I know you desperately want to be right. But the available documentation contradicts your viewpoint. If you disagree with the official documentation; can I suggest that you raise a topic in the appropriate section of the forum, garner public support and then push it through to the CSM. Maybe one of them will pick it up. And maybe it won't be rejected.

In the meantime though; I've supplied documents to support my position. When you can do the same I'll give you a fair listening to; but until then I have to assume you're either trolling or just full of ****.
DarthNefarius
Minmatar Heavy Industries
#327 - 2013-04-09 02:27:09 UTC  |  Edited by: DarthNefarius
Para Riverini's voters vota o muere

bionicle version:: vota o muere
An' then Chicken@little.com, he come scramblin outta the    Terminal room screaming "The system's crashing! The system's    crashing!" -Uncle RAMus, 'Tales for Cyberpsychotic Children'
Malcanis
Vanishing Point.
The Initiative.
#328 - 2013-04-09 06:32:07 UTC
Eternum Praetorian wrote:
Dave Stark wrote:
Eternum Praetorian wrote:
Dave Stark wrote:
you're meant to represent a group of people, not individuals.

you can't champion bad ideas to represent one person, at the cost of the group of people you're meant to be representing.



Never did I, or you, say the word "one". That... was not such a nice try. Kind of crappy really.


what? what has that even got to do with the fact that some ideas and people are stupid and just shouldn't be represented?



It is not the role of the representative to make that desertion.


I see we're starting a new round of everyone's favourite game: "Make assertions based on no evidence except your "feelings".

A large part of the CSM's role is to give feedback. Including feedback like "this is a terrible idea".

"Just remember later that I warned against any change to jump ranges or fatigue. You earned whats coming."

Grath Telkin, 11.10.2016
Malcanis
Vanishing Point.
The Initiative.
#329 - 2013-04-09 06:33:29 UTC
Eternum Praetorian wrote:
Frying Doom wrote:

Maybe you can point to this fact in the white paper, where they have to pay attention to a crap idea, no matter how good the following.



Any well worded, well thought out idea that has a notable (or sizable) following by the playerbase, is meant to be brought before CCP. CCP decides the merit of the idea, and whether or not said idea is feasible. The CSM does not. The CSM is just a representative.



It can't be more clear. You are just stubborn somehow bred with stupid.



Just so we're clear: "a large following" doesn't mean dozens of posts from one guy that everyone else is disagreeing with"

"Just remember later that I warned against any change to jump ranges or fatigue. You earned whats coming."

Grath Telkin, 11.10.2016
DarthNefarius
Minmatar Heavy Industries
#330 - 2013-04-09 06:49:00 UTC
DarthNefarius wrote:
Malcanis wrote:
Aracimia Wolfe wrote:


I hear persistent rumours that a Vote For Malcanis, may or indeed, may not, be a vote for bacon.

I suggest everyone should try it and find out.



Confirming that I am PRO BACON


wHAT ABOUT ponies?




Malcanis are you ducking this most important CSM question!!! What secrets about Ponies are you hiding???? Are you scared of ponies? Had a pony once in your youth bucked you?BlinkLolP
An' then Chicken@little.com, he come scramblin outta the    Terminal room screaming "The system's crashing! The system's    crashing!" -Uncle RAMus, 'Tales for Cyberpsychotic Children'
Mag's
Azn Empire
#331 - 2013-04-09 14:07:54 UTC
Eternum Praetorian wrote:
Mag's wrote:
That's a lot of words to show you only have anecdotal evidence, regarding a point that means nothing to the fact that subs are at an all time high. Also it proves nothing regarding alt accounts, but thanks for posting. Big smile


Anecdotal goes hand in hand with a small cross section. Proportional to most others playing this game my cross section is quite large and embodies just about every profession in EVE Online. So your assertion is inaccurate. My testament was not submitted as physical evidence, nor is it anecdotal. It's like testing a medicine on 2,000 people and drawing a conclusion on how it will work on the rest of the population of 200,000,000. It is far from perfect, but it can still give you a pretty good idea of what to expect most of the time.


Oh yea... and the absence of proof is still not proof that something is not factual. Nice try though.
It's a prime example of anecdotal evidence. If it were anything like testing a drug on 2000 people, there would be far more actual evidence to show how you reached your conclusions. Evidence of which you could cite. I'm sure we would all be interested if this was the case, sadly though yours is only anecdotal.

That point is as I already said, irrelevant and pointless, as it is a fact that subs are higher. But thanks for posting. Big smile

Destination SkillQueue:- It's like assuming the Lions will ignore you in the Savannah, if you're small, fat and look helpless.
DarthNefarius
Minmatar Heavy Industries
#332 - 2013-04-09 20:49:01 UTC
Malcanis wrote:

I am deeply concerned about hi-sec.

Psychotic Monk is wholly concerned about hi-sec - he's a hisec player

Mike Azariah is strongly focused on hi-sec - he's a hi-sec player

Once again you are using cheap cynicism and flat generalisations to paper over your lack of knowledge and scanty research. You could vote for the 3 of us and help to put 3 people who want to see hi-sec greatly improved onto the CSM.



I'd like to add Ripard Teg to the list of those concerned about HI SEC & newbies comming into the game & retention issues
An' then Chicken@little.com, he come scramblin outta the    Terminal room screaming "The system's crashing! The system's    crashing!" -Uncle RAMus, 'Tales for Cyberpsychotic Children'
El Geo
Warcrows
#333 - 2013-04-28 23:10:20 UTC
I'm sure a CSM member should represent a group within Eve but the one thing I see time and time again are players separating the game world into 4 parts, those of null, w-space, low and high, if I personally ran for CSM I don't think I could represent an area of 'security', I would represent a mixture of types of play (there are many) and the players who enjoy that type of play, after all explorers are explorers wherever they go and its the same all over new eden, highsec is important to attract new players, lowsec houses many small groups who are comfortable there without worrying about bubbles and major cta's and structure grinding and sov null is great for egomaniacs and robots :P

I think all CSM members should be apolitical, and i'm not sure that powerblocs who have to tell people to vote for 1 person really represent that.

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