EVE General Discussion

The way I saw it is - you can still solo it, but you aren't punished if you bring friends like now. I.e., a perfect mmo system.

MMO's didnt come out of the idea of a large group of people getting together to fulfill a goal, it came out fo the Facebook Genration as a place to socialize, and while you're chatting up, we'll give you some mundane repetitive tasks to do...it's about socialization not interaction (ie chat).

Most of us who come to an MMO to play solo come to play against everyone, not with everyone. I don't play well with others, the drama and ego's of so-called leaders in nearly every MMO is outstandingly horrific. I didnt join Eve to be some CEO's slave account. I play solo, but I still interact. I fully understand anyone can and has ruined my day at any given time. Playing against NPC's can get boring, they just dont change tactics. Once you learn how to survive, it's all easy peasy...but rl payers, they always change it up, something new to deal with every time...Thats why I play solo in an MMO, to play against everyone, not with them.

If you reverse that kill ratio & went cloaky in a Pilgrim you would get the rush I get when I get to murder someone in a radar site who's stealing MY loot. :-)

it can only feel like that in a MMO and you wouldn't find me in a single player game.

So I wish to preserve an area of the game that was always and still is ADVERTISED by CCP as a solo profession.

Rather than wait until it comes out, Id rather register may view at an early stage - if I am wrong I will post a confession

The title of my post may seem extravagant - but it draws attention to the fact that 'encouraging team play' from my perspective is Big Brother 'double speak' for kill off solo.

Agreed, we know little of the details but the intentions seem clear to me - less room for solo - possibly....

It should...if the mechanics allow it, everything else being equal.

1 player camping a gate catches 10% of people coming through.
2 players camping a gate on each side catch 30% of people coming through.

Synergy from group work means that in cooperation they get a greater share working together if everything is equal BUT this should not work in every scenario, ie, someone camping a gate solo in a billion isk instalock loki should not automatically catch less people that 2 newbs in velators each side just because the newbs decide to work together.

Automatically saying, groups "should always" win more, is entitlement speak. The example was extreme to make a point not literally every solo work is done in a loki and group work is done in velators OBVIOUSLY, before anyone starts.

A more real world example is I sometimes have fought two ships at once solo by jamming one out and fighting the first one, then switch to the jammed out guy when the first explodes, so now how will you make sure the group is more rewarded is that, like have the game recognize that its a 2 on 1 and buff their stats of the guys with a magic wand? no thanks.

…and what this still means is that all the income is split four ways — the same as if you were running solo. The rewards are completely exclusive: if one character gets something from a site, the others are left without it. The bonus from actually being four players is nil — the only added profit comes from the fact that two of “the team” don't require a take, and that's a function of using alts, not of running the sites as a team.

With the new system, every additional team member in a site (up to the limit of what the site will spit out, but we can only speculate where that limit is) will mean the team as a whole earns more. Instead of finding two sites with those alts, running with four people and getting ½ a site's worth of goodies each (50% less than if you were soloing and getting 1:1), you will find two sites in the same time period, run them with four people and get two sites worth of goodies each (100% more than if you were soloing and getting 1:1).

Yeah, splitting loot among multiple people is WAY better than keeping all that nasty isk yourself... Besides, the world has PROVEN over and over again how socialism and state welfare REALLY does work better than any other system.

"Anyone, who wants to profit from exploration knows that profession sites are a waste of time when compared to combat sites and those sites are ideally done in team."

This is what gets my goat - there are better sites for exploration already and I dont go there because you need a team nor do i expect to go there. So why encourage teams into the few areas where solo can make a living?

Once again its for the benefit of the workers collective over the individual

So lets have the odd 5/10 6/10 that can be run by a cloaky solo drone boat with nice loot please....ok that is a joke and Im not being serious.

Yes. Is there something wrong with that picture?



So first it's being split ( correct conclusion ) and now its exclusive?
I'm sure there's some logic here somewhere but frankly I can't see it.



So, I guess that means that working as a team in wormholes also have no benefits then?
And before you say that exploration and wormholes are different things : They only differ in package.The underlying system is one and the same.

I already pointed out the benefits of team work in exploration ( exactly the same are true for wormholes by the way ). One thing deserves additional explanation : because of team work you can greatly reduce time spent in sites because you are capable of using the most optimal ships. You cant do the same with alts effectively and when you are really solo you need a ship, which can scan, tank and deal enough dps. You are severely penalized even when using the best ships for the job ( Tengu or cruiser sized drone boats ) when compared to dedicated team flying specialized ships ( as it should be ). Penalty is not in the loot itself, it's not expressed in absolute values it's way more discrete. Basically it increases time investment, effort and risk.

In the end it translates to big increase in profitability and that's a fact, which is a result of nearly two years of my experience.
Of course you are entitled to your opinion even if it's based on strange assumptions combined with theory crafting instead of being a result of practical application.
We'll just stick to our practical approach, you can stick to yours "...if you team up, you get less" theory. Ultimately we do benefit when less people are doing it as effectively as it can be done. Less loot on the market == more iskies for us



If that's how the new system will work ( and that's a big 'if' ) then as I said before it will let you earn more in the very beginning ( just like Crucible's improved mag sites did for a while ) but soon after it will stop being as profitable because you are not getting isk injections, instead you get invention and salvage stuff. Introduction of capital rigs *might* be enough to keep T2 salvage prices on acceptable levels even with greatly increased supply but I can't see anything making invention stuff keeping it's value when market is flooded with those things. Everyone knows that if there is not enough in terms of profitability most people will not do it, they will stick to their missions, anoms, FW and other easily predictable sources of income.

In the end, it's a barren discussion. We don't know enough about this new system to draw sensible conclusions.