Player Features and Ideas Discussion

The empires hate each other.

So now that nullsec will be buffed there goes a huge chunk of Jita's market.

So another reason to do this.

Also with the rebalance to the economy coming then it seems like the perfect time to do this and make the empires unique.

why don't you guyz just roam 0.0 or FW-systems? why do you sit there in lolsec waiting all day for someone coming through "your gate"?

I mean, I see why you have that much time to think over horrible and stupid ideas, given the fact that sitting there and waiting for easy targets isn't exactly that kind of amazing thrill, but why don't you change your playstyle instead of proposing changes to everyones game?

I don't get it. If Highsec bores me too much, I move to another place. Why don't you do the same?

Commander Ted...

I took the liberty of bringing this subject up at the low-sec round table the other day at Fanfest (because i very much enjoy the concept for largely the same reasons you do).
Some of the DEVs adored the idea and expressed that they had toyed with it as a concept. Other DEVs were more lukewarm. The general sentiment among them though was that such a change now would be "too much of a shock to the system" and that they probably won't do it unless they hypothetically make a new game.

HOWEVER... the DEVs did express a desire to make low-sec both desirable for those who wish a more... unsavory... lifestyle without making it too attractive to null-seccers. They basically "want low-sec to be like the ghetto of a city... lots of alleyways, corners, and blind spots that the locals will know and use against massive groups that are used to using main battle tanks on open battlefields" (these are more or less their exact words, not mine). Unfortunately no solid ideas were expressed about HOW they would achieve this... but this is what they WANT to do.

That is so wonderful to hear!
Thank you!

I plan to keep bumping this occasionally, maybe once a month. Hopefully Fozzie will eventually reply.

Here's the thing:

Most of those "make lowsec more attractive" - "suggestions" try to do exactly one thing - force people to go through lowsec. The thing this primarily does is: More targets at gates.
Secondary effect might (!) be: more gangs trying to break up camps

Your still terrible suggestion is exactly this - you want to force people through lowsec to produce more traffic at gates, but what the hell do you think those people would do there? Right, they would travel from gate to gate to gate till they are finally back in empire. While I agree that this might provide some "opportunities" for PVP, it's just at the expense of others who would rather avoid PvP.

99.9% of such "suggestions" are exactly this. And this is just another episode of it.

Lowsec doesn't need people forced into it, lowsec needs people who WANT to be in there.

btw: I couldn't care less about running the damsel in 4 empires, I'm excluded to gal/min anyway and there are no plans to change it.

TLDR:

You have the tools and the options to get what you want (i.e PvP) - yes, you can have PvP, but aslong as you prefer to stay in your somehow safe location to actively avoid most of the PvP you could (!) have, while suggesting "Ideas" which would result in more easy targets for you more than anything else - you are indeed a scrub-camper.

Because your opportunities are highly questionable. Why do you need to force people into lowsec to set up camps for hours?

You can produce such opportunities right now - set up your camp and wait. But no, instead of doing so, you want more easy targets in the meantime, through forcing people into lowsec.. Hell, camp entrance to providence or something like that - you will have plenty of fights easily.

Maybe you got an impression now for why I'm calling you a scrub-camper? Your arguments are all about getting moar eazy targets. Go gank some miners, can't be that hard.

Necroing this crap won't make it happen.

This was the case back in beta. It had to be fixed because it broken Eve. And there were a lot fewer ppl camping pipes back then, btw.

I have many suggestions for fixing losec. I'll break them down here, give them a post of their own later, and turn into a losec supporter before much longer. But here's the argument.

The biggest issue with losec is that it lacks people. Not just carebears and the like, but people in general. CCP has decided to use gates, stations and complexes to guarantee action, and this same use of bottlenecks is what drives the droves of 'casual' gamers out of losec. On top of the bottlenecks, you have the lackluster rewards that are in losec.

What if you drastically increase the content available in losec? First, you start by adding more losec systems. Massively large systems. Double or triple the current amount of non-warzone (fw) losec.

Secondly, you defeat the chokepoints. Add entry gates into non-warfare losec from hisec down, offering multiple redundant passages into losec. Nulsec should be about owning a piece of space, not losec. Reduce the ability of these systems to be camped up and locked down by any group. Then, add 'alley' gates between losec systems that rotate on how operational they are (whether they are online today or not, for example) and are not labeled on the map and cannot be plotted using autopilot. Basically, if you live in that area you'll know your shortcuts.

Please note: This means that going from hisec to losec should be easy, as the number of gates and paths to get to losec increase dramatically. And moving between losec should be easier, as now you have much more legitimate and alley gates to offer pathways. Losec becomes a spiderweb of gates and such, much harder to simply camp up and cut off like a highway. BUT, you do not increase the movement from losec into nulsec. Those remain static highways. Nor do you change faction warfare systems much, beyond a pirate gate here and there.

Increase the number of everything. Each system has 30 belts. Each system has two dozen moons. Each system has five or six stations. Each system has plenty of sites and exploration and wormholes. Allow so much content that it's not fully used.

Now, how do you bring players here? Who are you trying to get into losec? Casual gamers who currently reside in hisec but aren't risk averse. So you increase the rewards. More minerals mined from the roids in shorter time, for instance. More research and manufacturing slots. Better refining options (requires a maximum hisec refine rate or 30% in stations to make the losec rate more profitable). More manufacturing and research slots. A lot of other rewards that are already in losec would remain, and simply increase in value with the increase in content options.



There's an apex point of value where you'll go from no change, and no additional players, to a player surge. First it'll be pirates bringing some of their casual friends in, because they're already there reaping the benefits. Then a corp or two will move into some distant corner. It's a harder, less static life than nulsec or hisec. But if the rewards and options are there, it will draw in players.

My point is to reduce the capability of controlling losec systems by any party, large or small, while allowing players to get lost in the expanse.

Essentially, making losec more valuable, less controllable, and more expansive. Because the biggest problem with losec is not the pirates, but the overwhelming odds for solo-small gang play and large organized outfits. There's no middle ground, because if you do get any kind of operation going, you get a hot drop or pegged by several cap ships.

The size of the engagements quickly escalate, discouraging those who have tried from returning, and encouraging those intent on staying to amass larger and larger numbers.