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RIP hisec mining, it was fun while it lasted.

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Captain Tardbar
Deep Core Mining Inc.
Caldari State
#181 - 2013-04-28 02:36:38 UTC
Well I don't know about you, but the current ice prices are steadily rising. The market seems to feel that the ice market is comming to a head. Now if people would accept my courier missions I'd be making a killing in new profits.

Looking to talk on VOIP with other EVE players? Are you new and need help with EVE (welfare) or looking for advice? Looking for adversarial debate with angry people?

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silens vesica
Corsair Cartel
#182 - 2013-04-28 02:48:17 UTC
Captain Tardbar wrote:
Well I don't know about you, but the current ice prices are steadily rising. The market seems to feel that the ice market is comming to a head. Now if people would accept my courier missions I'd be making a killing in new profits.

Just speculation, for now. Which is no reason why you shouldn't jump the band wagon and make a few ISK yourself.

Tell someone you love them today, because life is short. But scream it at them in Esperanto, because life is also terrifying and confusing.

Didn't vote? Then you voted for NulBloc
Captain Tardbar
Deep Core Mining Inc.
Caldari State
#183 - 2013-04-28 03:24:45 UTC
silens vesica wrote:
Captain Tardbar wrote:
Well I don't know about you, but the current ice prices are steadily rising. The market seems to feel that the ice market is comming to a head. Now if people would accept my courier missions I'd be making a killing in new profits.

Just speculation, for now. Which is no reason why you shouldn't jump the band wagon and make a few ISK yourself.


I have been watching white glaze in Jita all day and its gone from 160K from yesterday to 190K today. There is a panic starting!

Looking to talk on VOIP with other EVE players? Are you new and need help with EVE (welfare) or looking for advice? Looking for adversarial debate with angry people?

Captain Tardbar's Voice Discord Server
silens vesica
Corsair Cartel
#184 - 2013-04-28 03:26:28 UTC
Captain Tardbar wrote:
silens vesica wrote:
Captain Tardbar wrote:
Well I don't know about you, but the current ice prices are steadily rising. The market seems to feel that the ice market is comming to a head. Now if people would accept my courier missions I'd be making a killing in new profits.

Just speculation, for now. Which is no reason why you shouldn't jump the band wagon and make a few ISK yourself.


I have been watching white glaze in Jita all day and its gone from 160K from yesterday to 190K today. There is a panic starting!

Heh! Speculation often leads to panic... Get in while the gettin's good. :D

Tell someone you love them today, because life is short. But scream it at them in Esperanto, because life is also terrifying and confusing.

Didn't vote? Then you voted for NulBloc
Josilin du Guesclin
Aliastra
Gallente Federation
#185 - 2013-04-28 04:49:28 UTC
LHA Tarawa wrote:
And, why would we assume demand will be static?

IF mineral prices drop, then PvPers will have to rat less to replace ships = more time PvPing = more boom = more demand.


And then prices rise, and demand drops again until a new equilibrium is reached. Add in that neither null- nor high-sec miner will, by and large, mine if the price is too low compared to ratting, etc., and I doubt prices of trit will drop that much. OTOH, this incentive to mine out everything in null grav sites (soon to be anoms) may mean that the null/low minerals drop in price a bit, as they'll be picked up along with the trit and pyerite. I don't think that this, should it happen, will do any major damage to anything.

Overall, I'm much more interested in the potential of the moon rebalancing, especially if they do go ahead with the notion they threw out of having depletion and random de/respawning in other systems (presumably on a long depletion timer given the need to set up infrastructure). Also, the initial need to scan out tens of thousands of moons should keep null occupied for some short while.
Josilin du Guesclin
Aliastra
Gallente Federation
#186 - 2013-04-28 04:51:31 UTC
Dave Stark wrote:

null sec miners do not leave B and C ores just sitting there, at all.

Yeah, that's us wormholers when we get bored and come out and steal it from you. Take the best, leave the rest for the nullbears. :p
Sentamon
Imperial Academy
Amarr Empire
#187 - 2013-04-28 05:01:04 UTC
It's happening! Why didn't we listen? Big smile

~ Professional Forum Alt  ~
Octoven
Stellar Production
#188 - 2013-04-28 05:11:20 UTC
Basic economic modling issue.

A miner wants ore to be more valuable why? Because the minerals will go up in price as well and thus the miner becomes filthy rich.

*6 MONTHS LATER*

MINER: Veldspar just isn't selling well Im not making much money.

Let us examine why for a moment. A) Ore values went up and yes while you did get rich, the overall prices went up for everything else as well. B) Because the prices for everything else went up...so does the cost to mine since you may or may not lose your ship often.

Now that has happened, you want to raise the value of ore yet again, ok let do that. Yay \o/ mining is valuable again.

*6 MONTHS LATER*

MINER: Man this veldspar mining just isnt cutting it anymore......

PROGNOSIS: THE MINER WILL ASK MORE VALUE TO INCREASE YET AGAIN...AND IT WILL BE BAD

DIAGNOSIS: This vicious cycle has come full circle and you have to stop making stuff MORE valuable to get rich off the base parts of the game or you will have everything so inflated that new players will find it hard to get in a frigate much less a destroyer.

In the end, high sec mining does need a bit of a nerf...when you can make more money in a 1.0 system then you can in a 0.0 system....something is wrong there. The game is unbalanced like that. Essentially you are wanting a 0.0 system to have less valuable ore then 0.8 simply because you say so. Minus the fact of security, right now you CAN make more money in a 0.8 system then a 0.0 system even if CONCORD were in both places, and thats not balanced at all.

You can't say Ok 0.0 is dangerous so we will reward you with nothing by going there, but high sec is slightly more protected and you get a slightly higher reward.

In order for balance to exist you need a "BUT" clause.

In 0.0 space you get more valuable ore and higher amounts of trit therefore its more rewarding to mine in 0.0 over high sec BUT you pay for it by giving up some security.

In 0.8 space you get less valuable ore and standard amounts of trit therefore its less rewarding to mine in 0.8 over 0.0 BUT you pay for it by gaining a little more security.

Quote:
In 0.0 space you get more valuable ore and higher amounts of trit therefore its more rewarding to mine in 0.0 over high sec BUT you pay for it by giving up some security.

In 0.8 space you get less valuable ore and standard amounts of trit therefore its less rewarding to mine in 0.8 over 0.0 BUT you pay for it by gaining a little more security.


^^^^^^^^^^^^^_______________THIS is balanced.
Josilin du Guesclin
Aliastra
Gallente Federation
#189 - 2013-04-28 06:04:22 UTC
Octoven wrote:

In 0.0 space you get more valuable ore and higher amounts of trit therefore its more rewarding to mine in 0.0 over high sec BUT you pay for it by giving up some security.

In 0.8 space you get less valuable ore and standard amounts of trit therefore its less rewarding to mine in 0.8 over 0.0 BUT you pay for it by gaining a little more security.

Except that mostly null doesn't have less security so much as higher overheads (in null security costs money). I'm not sure that the quieter parts of null aren't both more secure and with lower overheads than the parts of highsec that are well populated with gankers and bumpers, either.

One thing I notice is that the nullsec folks are giving the highsec folks grief for being unwilling to band together and get some security (in this case, logi, etc.), while at the same time never considering doing the same for themselves. In both cases miners don't want to, and in both cases they don't address why. I'm going to hazard a guess that the real reason is that they don't want to have to pay someone to sit in a logi or some DPS and do nothing but watch ytube and drink coffee while they (the miners) have to deal with the tedium of doing just enough ship management that they can't really go and do something else. Also, doing so cuts into profits as long as other people are willing to accept the costs of not paying for direct security.

Oh yes, this also shows that when it comes down to it, ganking/bumping in highsec, and cloaky afking in null, aren't costing that much - if they were it'd be economical to pay for security forces.
Mara Pahrdi
The Order of Anoyia
#190 - 2013-04-28 06:55:20 UTC
It looks like ice mining permits are going to be a solid high sec business in the future Lol.

Remove standings and insurance.
Ai Shun
#191 - 2013-04-28 07:17:11 UTC
Basil Pupkin wrote:
inb4 nullbears happy tears hotdrop, how long do you think tritanium/pyerite prices would stay above 0.5 ISK after Odyssey?


Why did you waste my time with this garbage? I think that is a much better question. Three pages and no useful content. Damn, man.
Dave Stark
#192 - 2013-04-28 07:28:37 UTC
Arronicus wrote:
It's pretty blatantly clear to me, that you have no idea how sites respawn. As soon as you mine out a site, completely, of all its minerals, it respawns in about 5 minutes. Thus, you can mine out the large site repeatedly, over and over and over, 3 or 5 or 6 times a day if you have enough miners going. Only takes 10 hulks and a rorq something like 3 or 4 hours, and I've run into a lot of people with 6-12 hulk accounts.

Since the small and med have tons of worthless or near worthless minerals, yes indeed, you do just cycle the large and it IS enough to keep the industry up. Perhaps you should try actually mining in 0.0


perhaps you should learn to read?

the other poster implied that they did NOT cycle the belts, and thus that means there isn't enough ore to maintain the industry index.

please, read before posting.
Dave Stark
#193 - 2013-04-28 07:34:47 UTC
Captain Tardbar wrote:
silens vesica wrote:
Captain Tardbar wrote:
Well I don't know about you, but the current ice prices are steadily rising. The market seems to feel that the ice market is comming to a head. Now if people would accept my courier missions I'd be making a killing in new profits.

Just speculation, for now. Which is no reason why you shouldn't jump the band wagon and make a few ISK yourself.


I have been watching white glaze in Jita all day and its gone from 160K from yesterday to 190K today. There is a panic starting!


before i went to bed it was like 225k/unit.

assuming ice and mineral prices stay the same, when odyssey hits, ice mining will be almost worth about the same as socrdite mining.
fun fact.
Khemax
Imperial Academy
Amarr Empire
#194 - 2013-04-28 07:40:46 UTC  |  Edited by: Khemax
I really do not see the point on adding trit/pyr to high end ores...all it will do is increase the roids value (unless they decrease the amount of other mins in it)
Theres no shortage of trit/pyr in null....the null miners just need to have a look in the asteroid belts for a sec to see them.....rather than just get grav site blindness ( I know how difficult it is to see past them high end ores lol)
Dave Stark
#195 - 2013-04-28 07:43:23 UTC
Khemax wrote:
Theres no shortage of trit/pyr in null


this guy, has to be trolling.
DarthNefarius
Minmatar Heavy Industries
#196 - 2013-04-28 07:47:47 UTC  |  Edited by: DarthNefarius
Bolow Santosi wrote:
All 12 people in the CFC who mine are ecstatic about this change.

Those 12 people though have 240(0) Alts using isboxerAttention
An' then Chicken@little.com, he come scramblin outta the    Terminal room screaming "The system's crashing! The system's    crashing!" -Uncle RAMus, 'Tales for Cyberpsychotic Children'
Arduemont
Rotten Legion
#197 - 2013-04-28 08:19:48 UTC
Highsec mining will be fine.

"In the age of information, ignorance is a choice." www.stateofwar.co.nf
Basil Pupkin
Republic Military School
#198 - 2013-04-28 12:03:32 UTC
Arduemont wrote:
Highsec mining will be fine.

a catNot existing is fine too.

Being teh freightergankbear automatically puts you below missionbear and minerbear in carebear hierarchy.

If you're about to make "this will make eve un-eve" argument, odds are you are defending some utterly horrible mechanics against a good change.
Souchek Lehman
Doomheim
#199 - 2013-04-28 14:42:23 UTC
A good thing about threads like this is finding out who to never accept into your corp or alliance. Seriously, highsec mining is not dying, EVE is not dying, but any corp that takes you in very well might since you are a poison pill.

TEN THOUSAND YEARS - Recruiting chill dudes for exploration! In game channel - 10k lounge
Bolow Santosi
Caldari Provisions
Caldari State
#200 - 2013-04-28 15:31:29 UTC
Josilin du Guesclin wrote:

One thing I notice is that the nullsec folks are giving the highsec folks grief for being unwilling to band together and get some security (in this case, logi, etc.), while at the same time never considering doing the same for themselves. In both cases miners don't want to, and in both cases they don't address why. I'm going to hazard a guess that the real reason is that they don't want to have to pay someone to sit in a logi or some DPS and do nothing but watch ytube and drink coffee while they (the miners) have to deal with the tedium of doing just enough ship management that they can't really go and do something else. Also, doing so cuts into profits as long as other people are willing to accept the costs of not paying for direct security.


Bringing logi to a 0.0 mining fleet really won't do anything since we don't have to worry about this silly thing called concord. Ergo the need for logi to delay death by a few seconds so Concord can save the day is irrelevant. Also "most" mining fleets in 0.0 are in Grav Sites which must be probed down. Which means they're relatively safe from solo ganks and small gangs without probers.

If you want to guarantee safety you pay a price. Be it in yield, money, or effort.