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Returning customer and account banned in less than 30 hours

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Vertisce Soritenshi
The Scope
Gallente Federation
#21 - 2013-04-28 08:30:20 UTC
Emma Royd wrote:


The GM did his job properly (the safest method is Ban first, investigate later)


I disagree with this sentiment. The account and characters have been in play for a long time already. A few more days, weeks or even months won't be a big deal while they properly investigate the account and ban only when it's proven that EULA has been broken.

Innocent until proven guilty anyone? Anyone? No? Doesn't ring a bell at all?

That's a shame.

Bounties for all! https://forums.eveonline.com/default.aspx?g=posts&m=2279821#post2279821
Klymer
Hedion University
Amarr Empire
#22 - 2013-04-28 08:31:18 UTC
Moral of the story, don't confuse the words 'account' and 'character'.

Especially when you file a petition saying you bought one.

Roll
AkJon Ferguson
JC Ferguson and Son Ltd
Ferguson Alliance
#23 - 2013-04-28 08:34:20 UTC
If you really did buy an account, then shame on you for posting this thread. Perhaps CCP, tipped off by your Freudian slip, investigated and have determined that you did exactly that.

If you merely misspoke, then shame on CCP. (Especially if English isn't your first language.)

I'm certainly no techie, but I'd think they'd be able to determine whether you bought your 3rd account or not from IP logs. (If 2 accounts always (over a period of weeks or months) log in from 1 IP address and the 3rd from a different one, and then they all log in from the same IP address, for instance.)
Prince Kobol
#24 - 2013-04-28 08:38:19 UTC
Emma Royd wrote:
Believe me, I would much rather they ban a player the very instant they suspect some foul play such as exploits, client manipulation, or any other form of cheating or breaking of the rules than to spend a few days figuring it out before they ban them.

I'm not saying that the OP was cheating in any form, but the policy of ban first is the correct one in a game like eve.

Player A discovers an exploit that gets him a nice fat wallet, he then tells player B under secrecy.

Player B uses the method and gets himself a nice fat wallet too, and tells player C under secrecy.

Player C is a blabbermouth and types it in corp chat, which then gets pasted into alliance chat.

So now Players D-Z are doing the exploit.


So while CCP are waiting for the right time to ban Player A, remove the assets and isk, they now have a huge amount more work to do working out who has used the exploit, what isk has been generated, what assets have been purchased, where the assets have gone etc.


Yes it must suck to be banned for what seems like such a trivial matter as an incorrect word in a petition but you've not played for a while, another few days while the matter is investigated won't harm.


Until that person is you.

If you were banned and it took a couple of weeks to sort out and it transpired your were innocent your saying your would be fine with this.. yeah right.
FlamesOfHeaven
Ministry of War
Amarr Empire
#25 - 2013-04-28 08:41:06 UTC
Just a mix up in communication between the GM and you. Just wait it out and get it sorted with another petition.

No need to start flipping tables already.
Octoven
Stellar Production
#26 - 2013-04-28 08:43:49 UTC
Emma Royd wrote:
Believe me, I would much rather they ban a player the very instant they suspect some foul play such as exploits, client manipulation, or any other form of cheating or breaking of the rules than to spend a few days figuring it out before they ban them.

I'm not saying that the OP was cheating in any form, but the policy of ban first is the correct one in a game like eve.

Player A discovers an exploit that gets him a nice fat wallet, he then tells player B under secrecy.

Player B uses the method and gets himself a nice fat wallet too, and tells player C under secrecy.

Player C is a blabbermouth and types it in corp chat, which then gets pasted into alliance chat.

So now Players D-Z are doing the exploit.


So while CCP are waiting for the right time to ban Player A, remove the assets and isk, they now have a huge amount more work to do working out who has used the exploit, what isk has been generated, what assets have been purchased, where the assets have gone etc.


Yes it must suck to be banned for what seems like such a trivial matter as an incorrect word in a petition but you've not played for a while, another few days while the matter is investigated won't harm.


The other side of the coin to that is Player A is doing something to **** Player B off and so Player B reports Player A as doing a bannable offense. Under the stipulations you just laid out, Player A MUST be banned even for something innocent and while eventually Player A will get un banned and apologized because CCP will discover the truth and ban Player B....the damage is already done and there is nothing to stop it from happening again, So now even though Player As ban is lifted after a couple of days...he/she still lost valuable game time because the shoot first ask later mentality won. That isnt right for any player to have to go through.

How would you like it if some random person accused you of murder, the police came, locked you up and held you without evidence only to discover a week later that youre innocent? While this happens most of the time in the world...still doesnt make it right or appropriate to do.
Emma Royd
Maddled Gommerils
#27 - 2013-04-28 09:03:45 UTC
To be honest, if I was nefariously accused of cheating and my account was banned, yes I would be annoyed, but I wouldn't be on the forums.

The satisfaction would come when I'm found innocent and the person who accused me gets the ban instead Blink

I'm old enough in RL and in eve to realise that EVE is a game, and if the servers decided not to come back online after downtime today then meh, it was a good ride but everything has to come to an end at some point.

I don't know what it is with eve, people lose the fact it's a game, entertainment etc, not something that is life and death - the world will keep spinning long after the server's hard drives take their last rotation.

Strange really, eve is reputed to have a more mature playerbase, but (not directing this at anyone in-particular) sometimes they act like spoilt brats with a huge sense of entitlement, and bear grudges so big it's funny to sit back and laugh at.


Yes I'm not as dedicated and devoted as I was a few years ago, but hey, RL > EVE.

Enthusiasm is good for a game, obsessiveness maybe not so much - as people get a lot more wound up when things happen to alter the way they play. Look at the wahh ice mining is going threads. I'm glad ice mining is changing, it may finally be worth digging the skiffs out again.

OP - I hope you get the matter resolved quickly.
Blue Binary
Polychoron
#28 - 2013-04-28 09:06:24 UTC
Is it not more of a matter of communication and how it is worded? Would a message stating "your account has been suspended pending the results of an investigation into [subject]" provoke less of a sense of injustice by an "innocent" client from using the word ban?

I'm not claiming the op is innocent as I don't have all the facts. I'm assuming the GM's would make reasonable efforts to see if the details don't match with his other accounts, or see the history of details...?
05ricka06
Nova Atlantis
#29 - 2013-04-28 09:13:56 UTC
Hi @ll,

If I came here to explain what happened to one of my accounts was not to get your sympathy or hate, it was just to explain what I consider bad reaction on CCP side and very poor Customer Support.

I am playing this since back 2008 so even when a lot of people can be older I am not a perfect noob.

I didn't brought here the literal conversation with the GM as it is against the EULA. And not wanting you taking part on the deal, for which I am going thru the needed steps to get it sorted.

For the lazy ones that prefer to write, even without to read the full extent of the post I leave here this link: sale of this char where you can see too who is now affected by the ban.

All my accounts and chars have been always played from the same IP, other than to go to EVE Gate with my tablet. All them have the same email address and 2 of them have been for long time success involved in the sales of Cosmos Mission items, so not a perfect unknown ones.

So with little effort in CCP side all this situation could have been avoided. At the end of the day now they will have in the short or middle term more job than if done before to ban the account, as now it needs to be investigated and possibly escalated.

If i misconfused "account" with "char" twice, too twice I alighted it was done in the official section of our forums. As accounts cannot be sold there, just chars, it would ring, at least to my little brain, some kind or alarm bell on the way: here is something wrong on what the customer is explaining. So a message back to him asking for clarification and message back to say sorry it was meant to be "char", can you help me to retrieve my account?

Thanks anyway for reading this.
Teven Noziroh
DED Drug Enforcement Department
#30 - 2013-04-28 09:15:33 UTC
Vertisce Soritenshi wrote:
Emma Royd wrote:


The GM did his job properly (the safest method is Ban first, investigate later)


I disagree with this sentiment. The account and characters have been in play for a long time already. A few more days, weeks or even months won't be a big deal while they properly investigate the account and ban only when it's proven that EULA has been broken.

Innocent until proven guilty anyone? Anyone? No? Doesn't ring a bell at all?

That's a shame.
How is less than 30 hours a long time?

They ban as soon as possible, so there is actually something to return to for the real owner, if the account truly had been hacked.

Imagine this:

You've probably had your creditcard for a few years. No issues. Then it's stolen and some fishy activity starts happening.

Would you prefer your creditcard company close the card until they can figure out what is going on; or that they just let the activity continue?
Setaceous
Nexus Prima
#31 - 2013-04-28 09:19:12 UTC
Vertisce Soritenshi wrote:


Innocent until proven guilty anyone? Anyone? No? Doesn't ring a bell at all?



Doesn't apply to privately run virtual worlds and, in real life, is actually a reasonably modern concept that isn't applied universally worldwide.
Tuttomenui II
Aliastra
Gallente Federation
#32 - 2013-04-28 09:31:45 UTC
This is the second time I have seen someone misuse the term 'Buy Account' or 'Purchase Account'. The other person that misused the term was talking about subscribing several accounts but was saying bought or purchased, was kind of confusing at first.

Petition should sort this eventually just keep asking for senior gm's or Dev's to look at it if the lower GM lackies are being difficult.
Vertisce Soritenshi
The Scope
Gallente Federation
#33 - 2013-04-28 09:32:48 UTC
Teven Noziroh wrote:
Vertisce Soritenshi wrote:
Emma Royd wrote:


The GM did his job properly (the safest method is Ban first, investigate later)


I disagree with this sentiment. The account and characters have been in play for a long time already. A few more days, weeks or even months won't be a big deal while they properly investigate the account and ban only when it's proven that EULA has been broken.

Innocent until proven guilty anyone? Anyone? No? Doesn't ring a bell at all?

That's a shame.
How is less than 30 hours a long time?

They ban as soon as possible, so there is actually something to return to for the real owner, if the account truly had been hacked.

Imagine this:

You've probably had your creditcard for a few years. No issues. Then it's stolen and some fishy activity starts happening.

Would you prefer your creditcard company close the card until they can figure out what is going on; or that they just let the activity continue?

Not even close to the same thing. Not by a longshot. First off, he paid for a service and is not getting the benefit of the service he paid for. I don't pay for the use of my credit card and if my card was stolen they can cancel it and send me a new one right away. Unfortunately I doubt CCP is going to compensate the OP with another account for him to play with while they investigate his account for something he may or may not have done.

I can agree that an immediate ban might be reasonable if they have good reason to suspect that the account is being used for RMT purposes. In the case of the OP an immediate ban is completely jumping the gun in my opinion. I don't know what was said in his petitions to the GM's but if what he says is true then they should allow the player the benefit of the doubt.

Everything should be taken in a case by case basis.

And Setaceous is right..."Innocent until proven guilty." doesn't apply to virtual worlds but CCP's actions in such a situation only show how much they care about their customers. If my account was banned for something I didn't do, I would quit playing the game even if CCP apologized. I pay to play the game, I don't pay for someone to ban my account while they take their time investigating with no compensation.

I could go on about how oppressing a person, even through a video game, is a bad thing to do and how people don't react well when stuff is taken from them for no reason and how pissing off your customer only leads to you losing money...but I am bored.

Bounties for all! https://forums.eveonline.com/default.aspx?g=posts&m=2279821#post2279821
Xen Solarus
Furious Destruction and Salvage
#34 - 2013-04-28 09:41:17 UTC  |  Edited by: Xen Solarus
Love all the people blaiming the OP. They obviously don't realise that its the GMs job to check things, rather than just going on a single word from the guy writing the petition.

It would be like me picking a guy at random and telling a GM that their account is bought via RMT, and him getting banned without any checks whatsoever. Shocked

Seem to see alot of these sorts of issues these days. Unfortunately posting on the forums doesn't achieve anything other than giving people a chance to troll you, or others to share your pain. Best to petition it, and wait the weeks it takes for someone to fix it. Hopefully, you'll get someone this time that actually makes an effort to do his job, and i hope it doesn't put you off returning to the game.

Post with your main, like a BOSS!

And no, i don't live in highsec.  As if that would make your opinion any less wrong.  
Ifly Uwalk
Perkone
Caldari State
#35 - 2013-04-28 09:41:44 UTC
Lots of rabble rabble but this:
05ricka06 wrote:
No reason given.

gets me every time one of these posts (legit or not) pops up. How frickin difficult is it to type "Yo, we've banned that account on suspicion of :summin:, we'll let you know what's up shortly?"

Hell, I managed to do it, and I just got outta bed. Ugh
rswfire
#36 - 2013-04-28 09:52:00 UTC  |  Edited by: rswfire
So many people just want to complain and berate others for sharing their frustrations. -.-

I, like a few others have said, would have liked to believe that something like this could not happen so easily. This should have been researched to some degree before a ban was put in place. I don't think that's unreasonable to expect. I am, of course, going based off what the OP has said here, and we'll never know what really happened, or how this situation will ultimately be handled. That's fine.

I don't see anything wrong with the OP just sharing his frustration. Why is this such a bad thing? I think berating him to high heaven is far worse than anything he has done. This community, it can be so fickle about things. To the OP, I wish you the best of luck in resolving this matter. Just because you used a word incorrectly should not result in such an outcome. You shouldn't be expected to proofread your writing (as if that would have changed your understanding of English) and you should not be expected to have someone else in your native language with better English skills write it for you. You should not have your account banned without a proper investigation first.

All of that said, I want to say that I have had many petitions on different issues, and every single GM that I have ever spoken with has been extremely professional. Their responses are real. I've only once felt like a response was a template response. They really do go above and beyond the call of duty to personally respond to petitions, and I greatly appreciate the work they do. Every petition I have ever had has been rated a +10, so please be patient and give them the benefit of the doubt. Give it some time; I am sure this situation will be resolved.

About Firesworn Nation .|. FB .|. G+ .|. Steam
Ai Shun
#37 - 2013-04-28 10:18:16 UTC
Vertisce Soritenshi wrote:
Everything should be taken in a case by case basis.


There is the crux of the matter. If somebody says words to the effect of "I purchased an account off the official forum section" why would you ban first and not check the history of said character when there is an official forum section you can buy characters off?

Quote:
the account was bought in the forums official section


So you would ignore 8 words that are completely innocent in favour of one word that may point to the wrong thing in a game played right across the world by people from more languages than half of us can't speak properly?

Those of you with experience in database, support or even basic software development. How long do you think it takes to, when a player says something like that to you, to do a risk assessment (So he bought an account that he just reactivated after a year of being inactive) and do a bit of background checking that may take ten minutes to half an hour?

Sure, if somebody says "I've been bot farming and selling the ISK I make to fund my coke habit" suspend their account and investigate. That may be reasonable if there is sufficient evidence to be suspicious. But "Ban first, ask questions later" should be crap under the stated circumstances to a reasonable person to my mind least-ways.

Of course, we've all seen the forum posters who profess innocence, make similar allegations against CCP and end up being as guilty as sin Lol
Teven Noziroh
DED Drug Enforcement Department
#38 - 2013-04-28 10:59:14 UTC
Vertisce Soritenshi wrote:
I don't pay for the use of my credit card...

...but I am bored.
Then I suggest you go read your credit cards terms Blink
Tuttomenui II
Aliastra
Gallente Federation
#39 - 2013-04-28 12:10:27 UTC
The ban is actually warranted, I have seen it stated by CCP that some bans are temporary while they investigate the issue. It is like freezing the account so further damage is prevented if it is in fact in the wrong hands.
flakeys
Doomheim
#40 - 2013-04-28 16:03:13 UTC
Prince Kobol wrote:
Emma Royd wrote:


The GM did his job properly (the safest method is Ban first, investigate later)


Have some patience.


No No No No No No No..


Ban first ask question later is not the best method.. it is the worst method. The kind of companies who do this are nothing more then lazy bums who couldn't give a damn about their customers.. the likes of EA for example.





Oeee oeeeeeeeee and SOE , SOE would be top dog there.


We are all born ignorant, but one must work hard to remain stupid.
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