Warfare & Tactics

CCP should just make a change where it makes the warzone a warzone instead of low sec mission running.

Instead of ranting I want to make one simple idea known.

I think that kills made in Solar system should be applied to the control of that solar system. Math and explanation:

To win control of a system you must gain 100% control (put system into vulnerable) and kill the ihub.

Each plex that you complete (orbit a beacon for 10, 15, 20 or 25 min.) gives you .7% additional movement towards control (towards caputering of defending.)

For easy math (and simplicity of overall thought) all math is done at T1 control.
Novice - 10 min - 5,000 LP
Small - 15 min - 8,000 LP
medium - 20 min - 12,700 LP

So if I do the easy math which is running the Novice sites only: this is simple showing not exact numbers:

To push the system to 100% from 0% would take 143 sites. (novice sites)
5,000 LP per site (5,000 x 143 = 715000)
715,000 LP given to pilots for 100% control of a system.
If you earn LP for PVP kills (which is based off of the insurance payout) then those LP payments should be matched and paid into the ihub and used towards the max % of flip.

IE: Killing a hurricane gives (lets say) 5,000 LP payout. That means that the pilots involved receive 5,000 LP and the ihub receives 5,000 LP towards the max of 715,000 or whatever arbitrary number CCP wants to give it.

This would bring PVP into the front line where pvp actually matters. Killing a enemy BS fleet is worth more then 5 hours of sitting afk with a cloak frig plexing.

Since the payouts are based on insurance payouts (dont quote me but im pretty sure its either insurance or its the amount of the ship value x some %. Since LP payouts are always a fraction of the ship kill this will prevent people from abusing it since it will not be worth the isk loss.

This is a warzone, why does PVP not matter?

Best example is the Amarr Militia and Fweddit. Fweddit has a massive amount of kills and PVPs all the time. Yet the minmatar are (were) winning the warzone due to broken farming mechanics.

This brings this question to my mind:

"IS THIS A WARZONE OR IS THIS LOWSEC MISSION RUNNING?"

this is about warfare. i like this idea.


Here ima start the trolling for you before any1 else.

lets say the more isk the ship costs/bigger the ship the more LP/vp put into bunker towards vuln.

i can totaly see somebody having jump freighter alts join enemy militia, kill their own alts. bam system vuln and your titan brigde fleet jumps in and takes system within seconds.

everything is exploitable.

It's worse than that, since it actively punishes people for trying to attack or defend. Under such a scheme, it would be better to do nothing and dplex later than to engage at a disadvantage.


Why should kills directly affect a war? Wars are won by accomplishing military objective; killing the enemy is just a means to that end. Conversely, it's entirely possible to waste your time doing nothing of consequence and inflicting irrelevant losses on the opposition (this is especially true in EVE, where dying is an inconvenience). There's nothing wrong with that, but it's pretty unreasonable to insist that it also directly affect the warzone.

So many threads have urged CCP to do something, can't recall us ever having a DEV response in any of them. Many of us care about FW though so have to support these calls.

There are many great ideas and it is true that changes cannot make everyone happy. May own take on the situation is that the ISK earning potential needs to be crushed so that:

1. You can earn enough to fund PVP. But really, who needs 500+mil a day to PVP!?!
2. It is not the most lucrative PVE activity in EVE.
3. The winners do not have such an advantage that allies will becomes enemies just for ISK (extremely bad mechanics)

So for this I suggest:

T0 = Base LP
T1 = +5%
T2 = +10%
T3 = +15%
T4 = +20%
T5 = +25%

This is still very healthy ISK potential to maintain a nice hangar of ships and maintains some incentive for Sov (we have another Tier Bonuses that should matter as much) whilst not being over the top.

Pilots in EVE spend a lot of time and effort to get an extra 3-5% advantage in their activities so I am not sure why FW currently involves bonuses and penalties like +225% and -50%.

Just flatten the playing field a little. No need for code re-writing or anything fancy to at least try this, and should hopefully make FW less of a farmville.

+1
And timer rollbacks please. Plus fix fw missions. Minnies have (from wat I have heard) the easiest fw missions with crazy amounts of isk.

I want good fights not f..t..d kills.
All the actual system gave us are noob minnie billionaires, plexing everything with stabby cloaky ships to hell, getting 3b pods and boosters and then blobbing everything to hell. If that doesn´t work they return to their stabby cloaky ships again....
FW is like belt mining^^

I am not sure it will fix it, but it will definitely be an improvement. It seems gallente have replaced the atron as their rabbit ship of choice with the comet. I am getting about 4 warp away commets per 1 that will fight.


One other point. I think the problem with fw sov is "rabbits" not just "farmers." Both always warp away but farmers are in it for the lp rabbits are in it to win sov. They are both a huge problem imo. There are just as many defensive plexers who warp away as offensive plexers.

Adding npcs or buffing them won't effect that at all. And will likely just make it worse for pvpers - like it was before inferno.

If you study the kill stats you see that fw is a success. I like some of the minor tweaks mentioned in this thread, but major changes are not necessary. Fw is not broken.

After looking at both Fweddit and Moar Tears killboards, it's kind of lolworthy that any request is being made at all. Most of their kills are in Egglehende - a system which is not in FW space. You wonder if they would get any fights in FW if they actually, say, patrolled the FW area instead of camping the high sec gates in Eggh (and then called camping high sec gates "the right kind of pvp").

+1 to In Exile. who live in Eggh, but appear to actually go looking for fights in FW.

And +1 to Amarrian Vengeance who actually have the balls to live in FW space. Right now Sahtogas is getting massive numbers of fights because these guys have chosen to defend it, (and some Minmatar have chosen to attack it). This is how FW Occupancy warfare is supposed to work.

"Faction war" and "faction war sov" are 2 different things. Faction war sov is broken. If you look at the killoards of top vp gainers for the day (that si those with the biggest impact on sov for that day) you will see they had very little if any pvp. You will see they mostly fly pve ships. That is because running from pvp is the most effective way to gain sov under the current mechanics.

@Zarnak
Why do you only consider the 4 systems that amarr hold? Don't you ever dream of capturing more than 4 ssytems?
The defensive plexing rabbits are just as bad if not worse than the offensive plexing rabbits. Sure they are not getting as much lp (if any at all) but they are still effecting sov just as much.

Having players roaming around trying to find these rabbits so they don't completely control sov is obviously not working. We need better tools if we want it there the be some combat in this war. Alarms or notifications or at least a map that shows where our military complexes are currently under attack is necessary.