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The new Tags system: Tag4Sec

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Lady Areola Fappington
#81 - 2013-04-28 01:49:10 UTC
I've never seen grinding sec status as any kind of punishment. Most of the gankers I know wear blinkyred with pride. The punishment is the outlaw status, there's no game mechanic that says "you ganked a pod, now you *MUST* go kill X red crosses".

At most, I figure most hardcore gankers are just going to use tags4Sec to screw with vultures. Sure, camp a station, lets see if you're paying attention when I tag up to -4.9....

If anything, you'd think gank targets would be cheering this change. It adds yet another ISK based consideration for weekend gankers, which will figure into profit calculations when choosing targets.

7.2 CAN I AVOID PVP COMPLETELY? No; there are no systems or locations in New Eden where PvP may be completely avoided. --Eve New Player Guide
Kaaii
Kaaii-Net Research Labs
#82 - 2013-04-28 01:55:59 UTC


Pay to gank, I like it...
Galaxy Pig
New Order Logistics
CODE.
#83 - 2013-04-28 02:15:30 UTC
Profit calculations? 0o Bwaaaaaahahahahahahahaha!

Highsec is owned by players now. Systems 0.5-1.0 are New Order Territory. All miners and other residents of Highsec must obey The Code. Mining without a permit is dangerous and harmful to the EVE community. See www.MinerBumping.com
Lady Areola Fappington
#84 - 2013-04-28 02:18:51 UTC
Galaxy Pig wrote:
Profit calculations? 0o Bwaaaaaahahahahahahahaha!



Nownow Piggydear, you know just as well as I do that some folks gank for base ISK. It's not as pure a motive as ours, but....hey, at least it's not AFK mining.

7.2 CAN I AVOID PVP COMPLETELY? No; there are no systems or locations in New Eden where PvP may be completely avoided. --Eve New Player Guide
silens vesica
Corsair Cartel
#85 - 2013-04-28 02:56:02 UTC
March rabbit wrote:
Athena Momaki wrote:
What was your take?

my take is: i don't like ability of getting rid of SS with help of ISK. We know where is the biggest amount of ISK don;'t we?

Now when somebody starts Burn Jita or whatever they need to get rid of SS.
With tags they will just use their ISK to buy tags and repair SS then repeat ganking.
Actually, I find that encouraging. One of my main complaints - indeed, my only complaint - about "Burn Jita II" was that there wasn't enough chaos and random combat. If folks don't fear the SS grind so much, there may be more folks willing to drown their security status in a blazing bowl of fire.
Which would be fun.

Tell someone you love them today, because life is short. But scream it at them in Esperanto, because life is also terrifying and confusing.

Didn't vote? Then you voted for NulBloc
Galaxy Pig
New Order Logistics
CODE.
#86 - 2013-04-28 05:20:19 UTC
Lady Areola Fappington wrote:
Galaxy Pig wrote:
Profit calculations? 0o Bwaaaaaahahahahahahahaha!



Nownow Piggydear, you know just as well as I do that some folks gank for base ISK. It's not as pure a motive as ours, but....hey, at least it's not AFK mining.


Hehe, yes yes, I was just reveling in the fact that we don't have to make any profitability calculations thanks to NO shareholders and the Savior of Highsec. Big smileCool

Highsec is owned by players now. Systems 0.5-1.0 are New Order Territory. All miners and other residents of Highsec must obey The Code. Mining without a permit is dangerous and harmful to the EVE community. See www.MinerBumping.com
Minmatar Citizen160812
The LGBT Last Supper
#87 - 2013-04-28 23:18:51 UTC
Solstice Project wrote:
This is ridiculous.

There is no information about quantities or spawnrates given, thus these talks are completely nonsense.

Besides that, it reads as if people believed prices wouldn't go through the roof
if their horror-scenarios actually came true. In any way, if suddenly ALL THE GANKERS
would buy tags for PLEX, prices would SKYROCKET making it unaffordable !

Even IF there are rich people who could buy PLEX to no ends,
these people are definitely NOT the majority !

You people are just batshit crazy about things not even happening yet
and probably never happening, because the market will prevent that !



5 minute SS gain ticks without having to change systems will prevent anyone from spending anything on tags other than a few pennies here and there for fast sec when needed. They aren't batshit crazy they're just dumb. Under the new system it will probably be hard to keep a -10 status if you use the same character to rat. Even if they reduced the amount of sec gained per tick it's every 5 minutes so....what? a half hour of ratting in missions to go from -10 to -8ish?
March rabbit
Aliastra
Gallente Federation
#88 - 2013-04-29 05:44:53 UTC
Tippia wrote:

March rabbit wrote:
Which penalty you want to suffer for attacking in high-sec:
1) being CONCORDOKKEN
2) being paid XXX ISK

?

I think this is perfectly inside your theory about penalties and suffering. And many people would love to have it. Guess which option it would be every time? Lol
Seeing as how the two options are the same, this already exists in the game. Blink

looks like you have some bad time here Lol
Ok.
1. Being CONCORDOKKEN - your ship is killed by CONCORD and target couldn't survive
2. pay XXX ISK - your ship is not killed by CONCORD and you killed your victim

i hope now you see the small difference here? Lol

The Mittani: "the inappropriate drunked joke"
Katie Frost
Ministry of War
Amarr Empire
#89 - 2013-04-29 06:53:43 UTC
baltec1 wrote:
Did...did gankers get a buff?

There must be a catch somewhere.


I guess everyone missed the bit where the overall sec status will be separated from Concord standings and this being a prelude to "interesting" things to be coded in the future?

Yeah if I was a ganker, I wouldn't be popping any fireworks just yet.
Lady Areola Fappington
#90 - 2013-04-29 07:12:56 UTC
Katie Frost wrote:

I guess everyone missed the bit where the overall sec status will be separated from Concord standings and this being a prelude to "interesting" things to be coded in the future?

Yeah if I was a ganker, I wouldn't be popping any fireworks just yet.


Ohh, we're not, this is cautious optimism. CCP seems to enjoy nerfing ganking, so here's hoping this is a change for the better.

Best case, decoupling CONCORD lets CCP make some missions or whatever PVE content for concord.

Even better, CONCORD says "screw it, we'll let the faction police their own borders, we got more important things to do".

7.2 CAN I AVOID PVP COMPLETELY? No; there are no systems or locations in New Eden where PvP may be completely avoided. --Eve New Player Guide
SlaughterhouseDb
3MR Incorporated
#91 - 2013-05-01 18:07:31 UTC  |  Edited by: SlaughterhouseDb
DBl post
SlaughterhouseDb
3MR Incorporated
#92 - 2013-05-01 18:08:35 UTC
Jame Jarl Retief wrote:


Tim pays $115 a month ... Tim does the same bad things... Tim forks over a billion or two ISK for some tags...(h)e can do this several times a month. As such, for him, the consequences of a sec status loss are meaningless.




$100 USD "several times a month" is a meaningless consequence?!?! Even once a month would be a powerful penalty. The anecdotal Tim will be out real money for his guilty pleasures, an actual consequence for his actions. Keep in mind no-one is forcing Tim to pay; he has the option to make amends just like Bob does. But if he is in a hurry to pwn some nubes, or has more dollars than sense, he can throw money at the problem till it goes away. Sounds like CCP found a way to profit from griefing; good money sink too, and it gives the lowseccers another income stream selling tags to criminals.

As far as the Burn Jita lasting all season - good. Shutting down Jita will revitalize the local markets.
Mr Epeen
It's All About Me
#93 - 2013-05-01 18:25:14 UTC
In a game where throw away alts are the norm rather than the exception, I find this whole tag thing a complete waste of developer time.

Mr Epeen Cool
Skydell
Bad Girl Posse
#94 - 2013-05-01 18:52:49 UTC
Dave Stark wrote:
the amount of tags needed is irrelevant unless you know the drop rates of tags.


As well as the tags being incorporated.

I can tell you line tag, Electrum tags are the most common tag but command tags, there are no electrum tags. For example, Sansha Electrum outnumber all other tags combined. True Sansha, there are no True Sansha Electrum. For True Sansha, I don't think there is a most common, just a most farmed. Brass are the ones we see the most of right now but it's less to do with the table, more to do with where people collect them.

I've always supported tag based sec recovery. I hope one day they are used for Sec but I wanted an Empire penalty crossing the use. So if I raise my sec with Amarr/ Sansha/ Blood tags, I lose Minmatar standings. Or if I raise it with Caldari/ Guristas, I lose Gallente. Not so much because I am a threat to the opposite faction but because I proved to be loyal to the opposite faction. If I can furnish dog tags of an Empires Piratess, I am working for that Empire and the opposing one should see that for what it is. It's how the mission system works.
Georgina Parmala
Science and Trade Institute
Caldari State
#95 - 2013-05-01 19:14:14 UTC
Rebecha Pucontis wrote:
I dont see why low seccers need special treatement. They should just grind up standing the way everybody else does it. Put more valuable rats in low sec, but don't allow them to buy the tags from market. I guess its too late now though anyway.

But it DOES give a third option for them.

Going out and doing Pirate things to ratters carrying said tags on their way home. They can then use the tags themselves, or sell them.

Science and Trade Institute [STI] is an NPC entity and as such my views do not represent those of the entity or any of its members

https://forums.eveonline.com/default.aspx?g=posts&t=276984&p=38
Georgina Parmala
Science and Trade Institute
Caldari State
#96 - 2013-05-01 19:25:49 UTC
Singulis Pacifica wrote:

Suppose I am a rich high-sec suicide ganker: all I need to do is: gank, then buy a few plex, buy tags, repair sec status, and gank again. The only variable for me is my personal wealth in real life. Ergo, I pay to circumvent any negative penalties for my actions in high-sec.

This should never happen in a game.

Then you had better be making profit on those ganks anyway, making your plex buying irrelevant.

http://wiki.eveonline.com/en/wiki/Grief_play
Quote:
A grief player, or "griefer," is a player who devotes much of his time to making others’ lives miserable, in a large part deriving his enjoyment of the game from these activities while he does not profit from it in any way. Grief tactics are the mechanics a griefer will utilize to antagonize other players. At our discretion, players who are found to be consistently maliciously interfering with the game experience for others may receive a warning, temporary suspension or permanent banning of his account.

Science and Trade Institute [STI] is an NPC entity and as such my views do not represent those of the entity or any of its members

https://forums.eveonline.com/default.aspx?g=posts&t=276984&p=38
Georgina Parmala
Science and Trade Institute
Caldari State
#97 - 2013-05-01 19:57:21 UTC
Singulis Pacifica wrote:

What part of this model in which the only variable is real life money don't you understand? This player can gank all year long if he chooses to spend thousands of dollars. And he never has to grind any sec rating. He circumvents any penalty of time being needed to improve sec status. That is the flaw: The rich can "pay to win".

They can already do so to "avoid the penalty" of concord blowing up their ship this way. So why do we not see these people suicide ganking in Vindicators?

Because it's still a real penalty and a real cost that must be paid. Also, security status does not increase your power level in EvE.

Science and Trade Institute [STI] is an NPC entity and as such my views do not represent those of the entity or any of its members

https://forums.eveonline.com/default.aspx?g=posts&t=276984&p=38
cheese monkey
NuKeDD
NuKeDD.
#98 - 2013-05-01 20:26:07 UTC
This whole concept is game breakingly bad.

Essentially it is a free pass to increase high sec ganking by at least ten times!

--

http://eveboard.com/ub/627817229-39.png
Mr Epeen
It's All About Me
#99 - 2013-05-01 20:35:01 UTC
cheese monkey wrote:
This whole concept is game breakingly bad.

Essentially it is a free pass to increase high sec ganking by at least ten times!


No, -10 sec status has never been a barrier to high sec ganking.

I doubt there will even be much of a market for the tags. Gankers just don't care about their status. They never have.

I don't see an increase in high sec ganking. This whole thing is just an ill conceived idea that looks good on paper. A solution to a problem that doesn't exist. Like I said earlier, a total waste of development time.

Mr Epeen Cool
Ocih
Space Mermaids
#100 - 2013-05-01 20:53:21 UTC
Mr Epeen wrote:
cheese monkey wrote:
This whole concept is game breakingly bad.

Essentially it is a free pass to increase high sec ganking by at least ten times!


No, -10 sec status has never been a barrier to high sec ganking.

I doubt there will even be much of a market for the tags. Gankers just don't care about their status. They never have.

I don't see an increase in high sec ganking. This whole thing is just an ill conceived idea that looks good on paper. A solution to a problem that doesn't exist. Like I said earlier, a total waste of development time.

Mr Epeen Cool


I'd prefer it become the default method of getting Sec. Want 5.0 sec? Go get tags, or buy them.