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Why Two Step Will Be Missed On The CSM

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Frying Doom
#101 - 2013-04-26 10:55:40 UTC
Snow Axe wrote:
Ahh, he went for the first one. Sad, we could have skipped all that.

You cannot have the same expectation of volunteers than you do of paid employees - well, not if you have any hope in keeping them. Where the slack comes from will be largely different depending on what the volunteer position is; in our case, we're talking about an advisory group for a spaceship video game. This means that, if we want to be realistic, we can't expect utter devotion.

There's also the point that when you say you "expect the best", you quantify it in your own what. What you feel is "the best" for the CSM may not jive with anyone else's expectation for what "the best" is (and knowing you, I'd bet cash money it doesn't jive). Harping on about expecting "nothing but the best" or whatever has no actual meaning, which is where the "you sound like terrible retail management" part came in.

Is this clear enough now? Do we still have to go through the whole "you quote this, ignore everything in it and keep posting your assertions as if they're law" part, or can we skip ahead to another angle of this stupid, stupid topic?

Nope because " You cannot have the same expectation of volunteers than you do of paid employees"
Is complete and utter crap. To be honest a lot of volunteers are better than those who are paid, as they are not getting paid on a per hour basis and as I said if you volunteer and do not do your best then you are not there for others, you are there for yourself.

As to what I classify as the best, how about a chairman and vice chairman who meet what is stated in the white paper and a secretary and vice-secratary who do the same.

As for the members them selves how about not lying to us to cover CCPs tracks, people who actually get up their and speak for the players, not CCP.

People who will speak out when something dodgy is happening to the CSM.

Or to make it easier for you.
What is the CSM wrote:
The Scope of the CSM

The purpose of the CSM is to represent society interests to CCP. This requires active engagement with the player community to master EVE issue awareness, understanding, and evaluation in the context of the “greatest good for the greater player base”. The scope of issues is restricted only to EVE, its ongoing development, and limited meta (out-of-game) issues which have direct relevance to the EVE universe.

Any spelling, grammatical and punctuation errors are because frankly, I don't care!!
Snow Axe
Republic Military School
Minmatar Republic
#102 - 2013-04-26 11:00:12 UTC  |  Edited by: Snow Axe
Frying Doom wrote:
Nope because " You cannot have the same expectation of volunteers than you do of paid employees"
Is complete and utter crap. To be honest a lot of volunteers are better than those who are paid, as they are not getting paid on a per hour basis and as I said if you volunteer and do not do your best then you are not there for others, you are there for yourself.


Do some volunteers go above and beyond? Absolutely.
Can you expect it? Absolutely not.

This really isn't that complex. Are you just simple or something?

"Look any reason why you need to talk like that? I have now reported you. I dont need to listen to your bad tone. If you cant have a grown up conversation then leave the thread["
Frying Doom
#103 - 2013-04-26 11:08:24 UTC  |  Edited by: Frying Doom
Snow Axe wrote:
Frying Doom wrote:
Nope because " You cannot have the same expectation of volunteers than you do of paid employees"
Is complete and utter crap. To be honest a lot of volunteers are better than those who are paid, as they are not getting paid on a per hour basis and as I said if you volunteer and do not do your best then you are not there for others, you are there for yourself.


Do some volunteers go above and beyond? Absolutely.
Can you expect it? Absolutely not.

This really isn't that complex. Are you just simple or something?

No you have that the wrong way around

Are some volunteers crap? Yes
How do you deal with it? Minimize the effects of them by placing them on unimportant tasks away from anything critical.

That really isn't that hard. If you think volunteer organisations are staffed by under working scum, then maybe you need to move away from the ones doing Community Work Orders.

Some volunteers go above and beyond, like they are either blessed by an angel or chased by a demon, they are the the cream of the crop. Unfortunately in the CSM we seem to get a lot of sour curds.

Any spelling, grammatical and punctuation errors are because frankly, I don't care!!
Malcanis
Vanishing Point.
The Initiative.
#104 - 2013-04-26 12:12:56 UTC
At this stage of the discussion, all I'd like to say is to remind Snow Axe that life is short.

"Just remember later that I warned against any change to jump ranges or fatigue. You earned whats coming."

Grath Telkin, 11.10.2016
dark heartt
#105 - 2013-04-26 14:22:05 UTC
Frying Doom wrote:
Unfortunately in the CSM we seem to get a lot of sour curds.


In your mind.

http://tetrisisunrealistic.blogspot.com.au/
Frying Doom
#106 - 2013-04-26 14:35:14 UTC
dark heartt wrote:
Frying Doom wrote:
Unfortunately in the CSM we seem to get a lot of sour curds.


In your mind.

I am glad you believe CSM 7 did a good job. Well at least you won't be complaining about anything CSM8 do.Lol

Any spelling, grammatical and punctuation errors are because frankly, I don't care!!
dark heartt
#107 - 2013-04-26 15:43:27 UTC
Frying Doom wrote:
dark heartt wrote:
Frying Doom wrote:
Unfortunately in the CSM we seem to get a lot of sour curds.


In your mind.

I am glad you believe CSM 7 did a good job. Well at least you won't be complaining about anything CSM8 do.Lol


I didn't say that. I just pointed out that you think every member of the current CSM is a sour curd. In your mind they are all corrupt CCP worshipping traitors who care more about CCP than the player base.

As I have said before they have made mistakes (and they have even admitted that), but in general I think the work they have done with opening CCP to working more closely with the CSM will be remembered positively.

I guess I'm just a little more balanced in my viewpoint and willing to see the good things that have been done and the good intentions that they have had.

http://tetrisisunrealistic.blogspot.com.au/
Alekseyev Karrde
Noir.
Shadow Cartel
#108 - 2013-04-26 16:43:02 UTC
Frying Doom wrote:
If CSM7s mission statement was to make the CSMs credibility as low as possible they did a great job.

That was DariusIII's stated goal. I take some measure of hope in that it seems you're the only person he's been able to convince.

Far as the rest of us are concerned, he should have been removed from the CSM months and months ago. In the minutes discussions for this years summits, CSM7 got a lot of flak for talking "so much" about how to "vote people off the island." I trust that doesn't seem so odd now.

It's my personal hope that CSM8-onwards gets the proper support from CCP (if not ability on their own with the proper checks and balances) to deal with such problems before they become embarrassments not only to the CSM but embarassments to the player community as a whole.

Alek the Kidnapper, Hero of the CSM
None ofthe Above
#109 - 2013-04-27 23:31:53 UTC
Alekseyev Karrde wrote:
Frying Doom wrote:
If CSM7s mission statement was to make the CSMs credibility as low as possible they did a great job.

That was DariusIII's stated goal. I take some measure of hope in that it seems you're the only person he's been able to convince.

Far as the rest of us are concerned, he should have been removed from the CSM months and months ago. In the minutes discussions for this years summits, CSM7 got a lot of flak for talking "so much" about how to "vote people off the island." I trust that doesn't seem so odd now.

It's my personal hope that CSM8-onwards gets the proper support from CCP (if not ability on their own with the proper checks and balances) to deal with such problems before they become embarrassments not only to the CSM but embarassments to the player community as a whole.


He was partially successful, my opinion has never been lower of one CSM member... Darius III

The only end-game content in EVE Online is the crap that makes you rage quit.