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RIP hisec mining, it was fun while it lasted.

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Kharamete
Royal Assent
#161 - 2013-04-27 23:06:33 UTC
LHA Tarawa wrote:
Kharamete wrote:
If the OP would just calm down a bit and think about it, he will understand that what CCP is doing is restricting supply of ice.
Ice mining changes is a buff, not a nerf


But, with half the cycle time, are you sure ice mining in null won't increase to more than fill the gap?


Does cycle time matter if people don't undock due to the perma-cloaked camper in the system? :D

CCP FoxFour: "... the what button... oh god I didn't even know that existed. BRB."

My little youtube videos can be found here
Basil Pupkin
Republic Military School
#162 - 2013-04-27 23:07:53 UTC
Kharamete wrote:
If the OP would just calm down a bit and think about it, he will understand that what CCP is doing is restricting supply of ice.
Ice mining changes is a buff, not a nerf

That supply is provided in large part by high-sec today. There are vast networks of POS:es in null, all those Tech-moon mining poses for instance, that require a constant supply of fuel. In addition the whole of the cap ship fleets depend on ice products that are imported from high sec today, and which will be imported from high sec in two months time still - except at a higher price.

The pressure on High Sec ice will continue to be high. Except now there is a restricted supply. Prices will go up and up and up. There won't be that many more ice-miners in null-sec either if you think about what is also coming; the change to how the ice belts are placed coupled with the change to 'warp to zero on ice miners'. CCP has just given a new method to screw with alliances. If their ice systems are camped, they won't mine.

If they are desensitised to afk cloakers in the minings systems and start to mine, they will die horribly. If I wanted to shut an alliance down, I would certainly perma cloak in their ice systems and have black ops ships on standby. This time the afk cloaking wouldn't just deny individual members isk, it would also be a strategic warfare thing to deny the target alliance their capital ship fuel and their POS fuel. Oh yes. To prevent this, many members would be tied down in watching over the miners. There are so many sweet things going that I'm dizzy.

So, this is why high sec will still supply the vast bulk of ice. But at a much higher price. So, it is a buff. Not a nerf. And if you would think beyond your immediate agenda, you would see this. It's like always with CCP. Be careful what you ask for, you may very well get it.

Oh, and buy Amarr towers and Amarr caps. There's a pro-market tip for you.


Oh, I'm not worried about ice prices. It's just there is no more ice mining and a new process of ice camping is introduced.
Should ice prices rise and ore prices drop, we will get enough ice miners in hisec to cover every spawn 23/7, so that nobody gets the ice, unless he can camp it. That is what I'm worried about.

Being teh freightergankbear automatically puts you below missionbear and minerbear in carebear hierarchy.

If you're about to make "this will make eve un-eve" argument, odds are you are defending some utterly horrible mechanics against a good change.
Kharamete
Royal Assent
#163 - 2013-04-27 23:13:48 UTC  |  Edited by: Kharamete
Basil Pupkin wrote:

Oh, I'm not worried about ice prices. It's just there is no more ice mining and a new process of ice camping is introduced.
Should ice prices rise and ore prices drop, we will get enough ice miners in hisec to cover every spawn 23/7, so that nobody gets the ice, unless he can camp it. That is what I'm worried about.


But you are forgetting that there will ALSO be a cap on the amount of ice in High Sec to 80 percent of consumption. There will be a permanent shortage. Shortages leads to increased prices. People in High Sec will mine ice, all the ice, every gram of ice, and there will still be a large shortage.

Edit-
This may be the greatest redistribution of wealth in the game's history, and it's all going to go from null-sec to High Sec.

CCP FoxFour: "... the what button... oh god I didn't even know that existed. BRB."

My little youtube videos can be found here
Basil Pupkin
Republic Military School
#164 - 2013-04-27 23:16:50 UTC
Kharamete wrote:
Basil Pupkin wrote:

Oh, I'm not worried about ice prices. It's just there is no more ice mining and a new process of ice camping is introduced.
Should ice prices rise and ore prices drop, we will get enough ice miners in hisec to cover every spawn 23/7, so that nobody gets the ice, unless he can camp it. That is what I'm worried about.


But you are forgetting that there will ALSO be a cap on the amount of ice in High Sec to 80 percent of consumption. There will be a permanent shortage. Shortages leads to increased prices. People in High Sec will mine ice, all the ice, every gram of ice, and there will still be a large shortage.


And more people in hisec mining ice means less ice per person, means nerf to our profits.

Being teh freightergankbear automatically puts you below missionbear and minerbear in carebear hierarchy.

If you're about to make "this will make eve un-eve" argument, odds are you are defending some utterly horrible mechanics against a good change.
Kharamete
Royal Assent
#165 - 2013-04-27 23:18:19 UTC
Basil Pupkin wrote:
Kharamete wrote:
Basil Pupkin wrote:

Oh, I'm not worried about ice prices. It's just there is no more ice mining and a new process of ice camping is introduced.
Should ice prices rise and ore prices drop, we will get enough ice miners in hisec to cover every spawn 23/7, so that nobody gets the ice, unless he can camp it. That is what I'm worried about.


But you are forgetting that there will ALSO be a cap on the amount of ice in High Sec to 80 percent of consumption. There will be a permanent shortage. Shortages leads to increased prices. People in High Sec will mine ice, all the ice, every gram of ice, and there will still be a large shortage.


And more people in hisec mining ice means less ice per person, means nerf to our profits.


Just shoot the other miners. All it takes is a couple of catalysts and some blasters. Now you get it all for yourself.

CCP FoxFour: "... the what button... oh god I didn't even know that existed. BRB."

My little youtube videos can be found here
Basil Pupkin
Republic Military School
#166 - 2013-04-27 23:19:37 UTC  |  Edited by: Basil Pupkin
Kharamete wrote:
Basil Pupkin wrote:
Kharamete wrote:
Basil Pupkin wrote:

Oh, I'm not worried about ice prices. It's just there is no more ice mining and a new process of ice camping is introduced.
Should ice prices rise and ore prices drop, we will get enough ice miners in hisec to cover every spawn 23/7, so that nobody gets the ice, unless he can camp it. That is what I'm worried about.


But you are forgetting that there will ALSO be a cap on the amount of ice in High Sec to 80 percent of consumption. There will be a permanent shortage. Shortages leads to increased prices. People in High Sec will mine ice, all the ice, every gram of ice, and there will still be a large shortage.


And more people in hisec mining ice means less ice per person, means nerf to our profits.


Just shoot the other miners. All it takes is a couple of catalysts and some blasters. Now you get it all for yourself.


Except they have more catalysts. Now nobody has it. Hence Ice Camping.

Being teh freightergankbear automatically puts you below missionbear and minerbear in carebear hierarchy.

If you're about to make "this will make eve un-eve" argument, odds are you are defending some utterly horrible mechanics against a good change.
FlamesOfHeaven
Ministry of War
Amarr Empire
#167 - 2013-04-27 23:25:16 UTC
Oh come on, you guys knew it comining since forever. Harden up and adapt to the new changes.
Basil Pupkin
Republic Military School
#168 - 2013-04-27 23:27:57 UTC
FlamesOfHeaven wrote:
Oh come on, you guys knew it comining since forever. Harden up and adapt to the new changes.


"Nullsec or Die" dilemma is hardly adaption.

Being teh freightergankbear automatically puts you below missionbear and minerbear in carebear hierarchy.

If you're about to make "this will make eve un-eve" argument, odds are you are defending some utterly horrible mechanics against a good change.
Bolow Santosi
Caldari Provisions
Caldari State
#169 - 2013-04-27 23:31:29 UTC
Basil Pupkin wrote:


Except they have more catalysts. Now nobody has it. Hence Ice Camping.


War Dec them or start bringing logistics to ice belts to prevent ganks.
Basil Pupkin
Republic Military School
#170 - 2013-04-27 23:37:45 UTC
Bolow Santosi wrote:
Basil Pupkin wrote:


Except they have more catalysts. Now nobody has it. Hence Ice Camping.


War Dec them or start bringing logistics to ice belts to prevent ganks.


War Dec is the greatest idea ever. Now they can gank you with battleships instead of catalysts, and get to keep them! I can't express how unthoughtful this idea is.

So now I have to bring a logi for every mining ship. What's next? logi for every logi? logi for every logi for every logi?

Neither of your suggestions fix Ice Camping.

Being teh freightergankbear automatically puts you below missionbear and minerbear in carebear hierarchy.

If you're about to make "this will make eve un-eve" argument, odds are you are defending some utterly horrible mechanics against a good change.
sci0gon
Kaira Innovations
#171 - 2013-04-28 00:25:50 UTC
Ari Laveran wrote:
*Having trouble discerning if OP is trolling or not.

I doubt its a troll theres been several ppl complaining in the minerals trade chan about this

Singulis Pacifica wrote:
Except of course....the fact that you're now never safe as a miner and need to... dare I say it... tank your mining vessel?

that really depends on where people are mining tbh, miners aren't safe in caldari space as it is lol

at the end of the day mins always change and if they go back to the old days where trit used to be around 2.43 p/u I wouldn't mind however as the price changes so does the price of the things you can build with them. so bare that in mind guys especially if you want to keep getting cheap gear
Shepard Wong Ogeko
Native Freshfood
Minmatar Republic
#172 - 2013-04-28 00:26:08 UTC
Basil Pupkin wrote:
Bolow Santosi wrote:
Basil Pupkin wrote:


Except they have more catalysts. Now nobody has it. Hence Ice Camping.


War Dec them or start bringing logistics to ice belts to prevent ganks.


War Dec is the greatest idea ever. Now they can gank you with battleships instead of catalysts, and get to keep them! I can't express how unthoughtful this idea is.

So now I have to bring a logi for every mining ship. What's next? logi for every logi? logi for every logi for every logi?

Neither of your suggestions fix Ice Camping.



And words cannot express how much of an unthoughtful sad sack you are.

You don't want to team up with other players. You don't want to mine anything that requires you to move so much as 1m for hours on end. And ice is already crap because it is so easy that some one has already posted in this very forum that they mine the stuff with 100 accounts at the same time, while at work.

You are worried that ice belts will get camped? You can't mine any of the ore in the belts? Move on the production?

You are just happy being the lowest of the low, mining stuff with a price that has been driven into the ground by being the single most ridiculous handout in all of eve?
WTFAMILOOKINGAT
Horizon Research Group
#173 - 2013-04-28 00:32:06 UTC
This is an outrage.
Bolow Santosi
Caldari Provisions
Caldari State
#174 - 2013-04-28 00:51:35 UTC
Basil Pupkin wrote:
Bolow Santosi wrote:
Basil Pupkin wrote:


Except they have more catalysts. Now nobody has it. Hence Ice Camping.


War Dec them or start bringing logistics to ice belts to prevent ganks.


War Dec is the greatest idea ever. Now they can gank you with battleships instead of catalysts, and get to keep them! I can't express how unthoughtful this idea is.

So now I have to bring a logi for every mining ship. What's next? logi for every logi? logi for every logi for every logi?

Neither of your suggestions fix Ice Camping.


Do you know how logistics ships even work? You could lock up a decent sized mining fleet sit 70k away in an orbit with an AB or MWD on and be nearly untouchable. Have your dudes mining broadcast when they get yellow boxed and your solid.

Unfortunately this requires the people participating to pay attention, or rather 1 dude paying attention so he can alert everyone.
Arronicus
State War Academy
Caldari State
#175 - 2013-04-28 00:51:43 UTC  |  Edited by: Arronicus
Dave Stark wrote:
LHA Tarawa wrote:
Dave Stark wrote:

some body in null sec is mining them, or the industry index of the system would decay and they'd have no grav sites to mine in.
trust me, asteroids aren't just "left there".



They cycle the large to get at the ark, Kern, Hs, etc. That is enough to keep industry up. A lot of the B and C in the other clusters are left to pop on auto recycle.


Again, the beauty is, we'll see.


no it isn't.

6m m3 per day to keep an index of 3.
over 4 days, that's 24m m3

the sum total of small, med, and large grav sites is... 23940050

as we can see. you're a liar because you're already running a deficit before we remove the BC ores from the calculation.

please, stop lying or stop posting. i don't mind which.


It's pretty blatantly clear to me, that you have no idea how sites respawn. As soon as you mine out a site, completely, of all its minerals, it respawns in about 5 minutes. Thus, you can mine out the large site repeatedly, over and over and over, 3 or 5 or 6 times a day if you have enough miners going. Only takes 10 hulks and a rorq something like 3 or 4 hours, and I've run into a lot of people with 6-12 hulk accounts.

Since the small and med have tons of worthless or near worthless minerals, yes indeed, you do just cycle the large and it IS enough to keep the industry up. Perhaps you should try actually mining in 0.0
Corey Fumimasa
CFM Salvage
#176 - 2013-04-28 01:04:40 UTC  |  Edited by: Corey Fumimasa
I read this whole damned thread and I still don't know if I can finally mine or not.
Nevyn Auscent
Broke Sauce
#177 - 2013-04-28 01:21:25 UTC
Corey Fumimasa wrote:
I read this whole damned thread and I still don't know if I can finally mine or not.

You can.
ACE McFACE
Federal Navy Academy
Gallente Federation
#178 - 2013-04-28 01:23:38 UTC
RIP long and RIP hard, except that it wont be dead.

Now, more than ever, we need a dislike button.
Isonda
suspended animations DOT
#179 - 2013-04-28 01:50:29 UTC
Basil Pupkin wrote:
inb4 nullbears happy tears hotdrop, how long do you think tritanium/pyerite prices would stay above 0.5 ISK after Odyssey?


Given that I am in control of 6 accounts, with something like 700 000 000 SP amongst them... That it finaly will be worth mining with the mains in NULL and not the 3-4 mill SP alts in Empire is just GOLD.
lumberguy5
State Protectorate
Caldari State
#180 - 2013-04-28 02:03:57 UTC
Basil Pupkin wrote:
Bolow Santosi wrote:
Basil Pupkin wrote:


Except they have more catalysts. Now nobody has it. Hence Ice Camping.


War Dec them or start bringing logistics to ice belts to prevent ganks.


War Dec is the greatest idea ever. Now they can gank you with battleships instead of catalysts, and get to keep them! I can't express how unthoughtful this idea is.

So now I have to bring a logi for every mining ship. What's next? logi for every logi? logi for every logi for every logi?

Neither of your suggestions fix Ice Camping.



Its funny how like a year ago CCP made changes to the game, that allow a 25 million isk ship (FITTED) to mine with "effectively" 3 strip miners and field a small tank of about 51k ehp, with a yield of 567m3/min, (Without any skills and a MLU1). Or maybe if you played this game a little bit longer, a moderate tank of 79k ehp and a yield of 920m3/min (LVL 5 Skills MLU2). Even worse if you drop the MLU and the Survey Scanner and get a mindlinked orca and tengu, you can fly a barge that has a very gankable, light tank of 120k ehp and a unnoticable 1434m3/min yield.