EVE General Discussion

So I suppose that just means that Null sec players are technically High sec players too.

Ergo, most Null sec players are dirty High sec carebears on their alts?

The reason is CONCORD (google it up), which prevents normal PVP in high security space.

Aside from it probably being healthier if it was another player rather than a highsec alt doing the manufacturing, having Nullsec buy stuff in from Highsec makes for a healthy trade - moon goo, etc. out of Null, ships and ammo in. The more self-sufficient Null becomes, the stronger the large alliances will become, and the poorer Highsec becomes. Also it means less hauler/freighter traffic through low- and high-sec, and thus less opportunities for ganking of such.

Modest boosts to Nullsec industry seem fine to me, but too much will not be healthy for the game as a whole.

please explain what you think andski meant by that quote and also why you think burn jita was normal pvp

yes, all the hate you see is simply a manifestation of self-loathing. they need to come to terms with their inner bear and let go of this 'game imbalance' delusion.

if the endgame is bad touching them they should report the incident to a GM or an ISD they can trust. otherwise they should just tell the endgame they're not that kind of capsuleer and join a nice, wholesome PvP corp.

Let me offer you MY "narrative", Georgina Parmala.

Null sec players like Andski (and pirates) use alts in high sec TO AVOID PVP. If they try to enter high sec in their PVE bling-mobile or in a freighter full of null sec goods wearing a GoonSwarm or TEST or RAZOR or whatever-nullsec-alliance ticker (or with -5 CONCORD standing), they will get ganked. They will get ganked by war dec'ers. They will get ganked by suicide gankers. They will get ganked by the alts of alliances they are at war with in null. They will get ganked for ISK. They will get ganked for lols. They will get ganked for tears. Otherwise, why WOULDN'T they use their high skillpoint uber-elite PVP mains? They can't. It's not safe for them.

Burn Jita is a prime example of how ridiculous it is to say that PVP doesn't happen in high sec. If a freighter is not safe from non-consensual PVP in 1.0 space, then what are people talking about when they say that "CONCORD prevents PVP.". CONCORD doesn't prevent PVP any more than lack of skillpoints prevents PVP or lack of ISK prevents PVP. CONCORD is a feature of the game, just like warp disruptor bubbles, just like gate/station aggression lockout timers, just like super capitals. If you're going to complain about one, be consistent and complain about EVERYTHING that hinders direct, indiscriminant hostilities. CONCORD may save a lot of ships, but you know what saves more ships? Space stations that allow you to dock your ship and store it completely out of harms way.

"Normal PVP" is a great example of the socialization and subliminal messaging that goes on in this game. If you can't do "normal PVP" in high sec, then maybe you should go to where you CAN do "normal PVP". Right? Georgina, you and null bears are no more qualified to tell the rest of us what PVP is "normal" than we are qualified to tell you what is "normal" mining or "acceptable" trading or "good" ship fitting. Your way of doing PVP is no more "normal" or "acceptable" or "fair" or "skillful" than a high or low sec or wormhole player's way of doing it.

You're a flithy high-sec carebear and you enjoy it! You wallow in that hi-sec isk like scrooge mc-duck on cokahina and gold!

"Some X happens despite Y.
Therefore Y never prevents X."
I'm pretty sure this is a fallacy, I'm just not entirely sure what the name for it is.


So in other words, nerf highsec to teach Goons a lesson, amirite?

You make some sweeping generalizations that are not necessarily true and in some cases contradict themselves. First off, as I recall, Marmite has killed several "goon" freighters rather recently in their war. Null blocks already do blow up each other's freighters, be they in or out of corp. Most are simply targeted because it is a profitable gank thanks to a greedy pilot.

Then we get to the high sec alts. You claim sec status is the problem they are circumventing. Yet so many of their alts are gank alts with the same -10 sec standing. The superior skills of the main are simply not needed or worth the travel time.

You say they would get ganked coming to high sec. Why would you train production efficiency and mass production on a combat character, no matter where you live? It makes far more sense to simply make a new one(s) for that, who will sit in the station with the production slots rather than traveling back and forth. Why move that alt to null, when you have better capacity in high and would have to bring in larger m3 of materials from high than bringing in the finished product?

Who doesn't use an out of corp hauler alt? I learned that while still in an NPC corp as a noob, and made one the day the first corp I joined was Wardeced for the first time. It's merely a fact of life in EvE and nothing to do with "bears". It's no more "manly" to say "I fly my freighter on my main under wardec with online war targets" than "I autopilot through Rancer".


Who said PvP doesn't happen in High Sec? PvP happens EVERYWHERE in EvE, all the time. Even the AFK Ice miners are engaging in PvP, trying to look like a less vulnerable gank target than the barge next to him. I merely agreed that what I would consider as "Normal" PvP does not happen in High Sec.


I never said "Normal" PvP meant consensual. I never said it's direct indiscriminate hostilities for that matter. I also never claimed to be qualified to tell you what you should think is normal or acceptable. Nowhere did I mention fairness or skill. Nowhere did I tell you where you can or should PvP. Nor did I say I PvP in null, in fact I do it in all three of the alternatives you listed instead. I find it amusing how deeply you tie my views into the Nullbear Big Lie.

I think we'll agree most people would consider this game split into four or five distinct areas with their own rule set. High Sec, Low Sec, NPC Null, Sov Null, W-Space.

I claim high sec PvP is not "normal", because the restrictions mentioned in my post are only present in that one specific area of space. Nowhere else do I have to fit out a special minimalist ship to destroy an unarmed vessel, because "the unarmed ship is guaranteed to kill me". I'm considering an NPC response, as opposed to player response as consequence of my actions. As a counter example, stations and docking games are prevalent throughout the game. Even in W-space and systems with no stations, you have POS shields that are used in very similar fashion. So it becomes "normal" in my mind, simply because it's present somewhat consistently throughout the entire game.

High Sec PvP is not "Normal" PvP, because in almost all cases it relies on gimmick mechanics, unique to that one area, in order to engage.

I hope that provides some better context for you.