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Enough is Enough: Nerf Minmatar
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Onictus
Federal Navy Academy
Gallente Federation
#101 - 2011-11-02 02:01:15 UTC
Zarnak Wulf wrote:


Look at the total package:
Minmatar have the smallest, fastest, most agile ships for damage mitigation. They have fitting requirements that can only be described as luxurious. Their drone bays are the second largest in the game. They have damage selection and their weapon systems are cap free. Minmatar ships have the fastest locking times in the game.

This argument is alot more then weapon system vs. weapon system. With all the other advantages that Minmatar get they should have a weaker weapon system. My suggestions are not crazy or way out of line. And noone should think that Minmatar should have all the advantages that they currently get as well as 90% of what the other races have.


Pulse vs AC is actually a good match turret to turret, at range pulses + scortch are arguably a better system

Its when you can stack three gyros and two TE's on a double bonused hull that happens to be fastest in class that the balance tips.

...and seriously, a set of EC-300s or a TD completely shuts down a Hurricane, its not hard to counter the more common fits, plan accordingly.
Zarnak Wulf
Task Force 641
Empyrean Edict
#102 - 2011-11-02 02:10:39 UTC
It's more like scorch vs. AC. We'll just have to agree to disagree. P

When and if they roll out a new intel system I hope Minmatar gets the short end of the stick there. Big barbarians and strong fighters - light on organization and team. It would put things in perspective at least.
Morganta
The Greater Goon
#103 - 2011-11-02 02:11:21 UTC
Onictus wrote:


Its when you can stack three gyros and two TE's on a double bonused hull that happens to be fastest in class that the balance tips.


no no no, bad dog (hits with rolled up newspaper)

the balance in DPS tips in favor of the cane, but the loss in tank goes in the other guys favor.

problem is people don't know how to counter the cane.
you get great DPS while in someones face, but that also happens to be the worst possible place you can be with a shield fit cane.

people need to not go OMGWTFBBQ! when one gets up in your grill and actually do something that exploits its weakness, neut it, shoot it, outrun it. dump drones on him, web, jam....
Nimrod Nemesis
Doomheim
#104 - 2011-11-02 02:41:14 UTC
Morganta wrote:
problem is people don't know how to counter the cane.


Not really.

Morganta wrote:

people need to not go OMGWTFBBQ! when one gets up in your grill and actually do something that exploits its weakness


This should be good...

Morganta wrote:
neut it


Projectiles > Neuts and since any good cane will have neuts of it's own.. lol

Morganta wrote:

shoot it, outrun it.


Most agile, highest speed while tackled. Disengage at will. Anything that can't out-run it, won't get the chance to shoot it in the first place. And most ships that can out-run it, will be needing to gtfo at this point.

Morganta wrote:

dump drones on him, web, jam....


So basically jam him and hope to gtfo, nice. Ever wonder why literally everyone has a falcon alt?
Morganta
The Greater Goon
#105 - 2011-11-02 02:46:07 UTC
Nimrod Nemesis wrote:


So basically jam him and hope to gtfo, nice. Ever wonder why literally everyone has a falcon alt?


*facepalm*
Nariya Kentaya
Ministry of War
Amarr Empire
#106 - 2011-11-02 03:09:55 UTC
Alara IonStorm wrote:
Hannibal Ord wrote:

If you nerf Minmatar, then you basically make Amarr THE race to fly, with few exceptions, in almost every ship category in the game.

Amarr is not that good. Scorch is good. They make Pulse Lasers the long range weapon. Make Beams the Long Range Weapons again and Pulses Short Range and that will bring backLR Weapon Balance.

Put Artillery in line with Rails and Beams and you will have balance w/o any race being OP.

not sure if i understand, but, you absically want every gun to have the same stats, beams = amrrian arty's kinda thing, absically you can fly whatever whenever and always have a chance to win?

cause as i see it now, ive seen players in blaster-boats and hybrid-platforms do serious damage against minnies who got cocky, and amarrians who egt neuuted.

honestly, every race ahs a specific battlefield role they fill, and then their ship classes fill sub-roles within that combat profile.

im not sure if im understanding your post here, but it sounds like your proposing what alot of ill-informed people sugest and thats making ever race equivalent, beams being basically the same as arty's except shooting flashlights.



BTW, seriosuly, you don't nerf something for being OP rigth ebfore you buff something else, it guarantees the Buffee is top-dog/FOTM until either they fidn a way to buff everything else again, or nerf it back to how it originally was.
How2FoldSoup
Hull Tanking Elitists
#107 - 2011-11-02 03:11:08 UTC
At least we all saw the threads coming right?
Nariya Kentaya
Ministry of War
Amarr Empire
#108 - 2011-11-02 03:16:34 UTC
Zarnak Wulf wrote:
It's more like scorch vs. AC. We'll just have to agree to disagree. P

When and if they roll out a new intel system I hope Minmatar gets the short end of the stick there. Big barbarians and strong fighters - light on organization and team. It would put things in perspective at least.

ummm, wtf? actually, it would make sense that someone like the Minmatar would ahve the most advanced network/communications for teamwork, since growing from a tribal community, cooperation and mutual support is the only way to survive. if anything the Amarrians would get the short end of the stick in communications, since historically, overly-religious groups have always had an aversion for exploring ways of ciommunication, and instead had tendencies to show the opposition their own inferioirity (shitloads of EWAR or overwhelming weapon systems lasers= judgement/flames of god, anyone?) the gallente being centered around individual freedom should have the ebst tank in the game, since with most freedom centric society's focused on the protection of soldiers over firepower. and Caldari being a Corporatocracy, would revolve more around delegation of roles and strict structure (such as relying heavily on advanced gang links and other fleet-based systems to ensure cooperation relying heavily on FC's and boosters to push the fleet forward, a very solo unfriendly ship style)

granted i know very little about EvE Lore, but eh, im bored and ranting.
Zarnak Wulf
Task Force 641
Empyrean Edict
#109 - 2011-11-02 03:21:03 UTC
I was thinking more the discipline of the Roman legions vs. the big, individualist barbarians. But that is a story for another thread. Pirate
Imawuss
The Scope
Gallente Federation
#110 - 2011-11-02 03:27:53 UTC
Nerf ac's? i say ney they need a buff! and CCP thinks so too.
With the new Hail buff doubling the range of their highest DPS ammo they will be right where they are ment to be as FoTM. Reigning champion for the last few years with no contenders in sight for years to come.
Bomberlocks
Bombercorp
#111 - 2011-11-02 03:41:47 UTC
Zarnak Wulf wrote:
Two thoughts:


  • Lose the ~9% DPS increase that short range ammo got with the projectile buff. The purification of damage type was more then enough.

  • Reduce the tracking enhancer falloff bonus from 30% to 15%.


Discuss.

You're on a roll, I see.

Short answer: No.

Long answer: Reducing the falloff on 425mms can be discussed. Reducing the damage on t1 or faction ammo would be, in want of a better word, terrible, because they would then have less overall damage than either lasers or hybrids (they used to have less overall damage and are still mixed damage to a certain extent).

Minnies flew like that for a long time before Dominion and it was pretty damn awful.

There's a very good reason that before December 2009, Minnies were known as Eve on hard mode.
Templar Dane
Amarrian Vengeance
Ragequit Cancel Sub
#112 - 2011-11-02 03:44:56 UTC
Hershman wrote:
Minmatar ships have quite a few weaknesses to balance their many guns already as we speak! Be creative and you will counter them Blink


Yeah, all kinds of weaknesses.

You can neut out their guns
They have trouble disengaging from a fight.
Stuck with two damage types
So easy to get under their guns
Lack of utility highs makes them crap against tacklers
So slow, they can't catch anything
etc

Buff winmatar, nerf the rest.
Digital Messiah
Center for Advanced Studies
Gallente Federation
#113 - 2011-11-02 03:45:02 UTC
Destination SkillQueue wrote:
Lharanai wrote:
and what about us poor Amarr?
Won't somebody please think of the children!?!


I'm sure CCP can give some tender and loving nerfbat action to the Amarr too, if you really want it so badly.

Vegeta what does the scouter say!? His alpha is over 9000!

On a more serious note, waiting until after the hybrid buff is wisest when talking about balance.

Something clever
Bomberlocks
Bombercorp
#114 - 2011-11-02 03:51:10 UTC
Nimrod Nemesis wrote:
....

Most agile, highest speed while tackled. Disengage at will. Anything that can't out-run it, won't get the chance to shoot it in the first place. And most ships that can out-run it, will be needing to gtfo at this point.

.....


Good evening, Mr. OP Cane, I'd like to introduce you to Mr. Drake.

Long range?: Does it get any longer?
Speed?: Nano Drakes are pretty fast
Tank: Is there any BC that can out tank a Drake in a standard fit?
Cap Stable?: Missiles don't need them

There's a reason why the Drake is the most used BC. There was a big whine, cry, tears and rage session last year when nullsec gangs came up with the Drake blob idea. Everyone and their mothers (and little sisters) wanted to NREF DRAEK!!!!!

Then someone else disocovered that Alpha Maelstroms were a pretty good counter to Drakes. Since then Drakes have been on the wane as FOTM.

EVE is a rock, paper, scissors game. FOTMs come and go. If the FOTM doesn't go, then you have a balance problem, as are (for a short while longer) supercaps and Dramiels.

Deal with it.
Steelshine
Caldari Provisions
Caldari State
#115 - 2011-11-02 03:54:04 UTC
kick amok dot
Bomberlocks
Bombercorp
#116 - 2011-11-02 03:59:56 UTC
Zarnak Wulf wrote:
It's more like scorch vs. AC. We'll just have to agree to disagree. P

When and if they roll out a new intel system I hope Minmatar gets the short end of the stick there. Big barbarians and strong fighters - light on organization and team. It would put things in perspective at least.

The type of fits you're talking about, Gyros and TEs, are paper thin shield fits that have a specific weakness against lasers. Lasers do 100% damage all the way out to their considerable optimal, whereas falloff fits do about 50% damage in mid falloff.

And you want to have that nerfed?

No.

Now, you will counter and say the armour Canes are OMFG OP!!!!!! They have considerably less range than Pulses, lasers can switch ammo on the fly without the 10 second wait. The Harbinger has almost double the drone bay of a Cane and can fit a full set of ec-600 drones. The Harbinger has a bigger tank, i.e more ehp than a Cane. The only advantage if that the Cane is somewhat faster.

And you want to have the Cane nerfed?

No.

0/10.
DarkAegix
Center for Advanced Studies
Gallente Federation
#117 - 2011-11-02 04:33:42 UTC
Minmatar excel in the extremely niche role of PVP, so why nerf them?
Ikarus Gaul
Russian SOBR
#118 - 2011-11-02 05:00:09 UTC
DarkAegix wrote:
Minmatar excel in the extremely niche role of PVP, so why nerf them?


This comment is LOLtastic Big smile
Mina Sebiestar
Minmatar Inner Space Conglomerate
#119 - 2011-11-02 05:18:18 UTC
Another butt hurt attempt of fail

Artys are worst dps/tracking/rof/range weapon currently in game they suck in all of dose things exempt one thing ...Butt hurting alpha strike that i see most of whiners here received...gotta love how much butt pain it brings.

AC's are ok they have range but not most range that go to amarr or caldary if one is considering missiles,they don't have most dps they have worst dps that is, there is delay for switching dmg type.

Usually EHP is lowish on all mini ships but it is not rule...but what they do have is speed and agility =your fat arse pve to pvp ship is gonna be raped and thus butt hurt is created.

so no nerf they are fine.

You choke behind a smile a fake behind the fear

Because >>I is too hard
Onictus
Federal Navy Academy
Gallente Federation
#120 - 2011-11-02 05:40:24 UTC  |  Edited by: Onictus
Imawuss wrote:
Nerf ac's? i say ney they need a buff! and CCP thinks so too.
With the new Hail buff doubling the range of their highest DPS ammo they will be right where they are ment to be as FoTM. Reigning champion for the last few years with no contenders in sight for years to come.


Edit wrong stuff...


Hail currently has no reason to be employed ever. If you ever loot it you found yourself an EFT warrior that generally does apply the numbers very well.

Hail
-50% optimal -50% falloff (!) This basically makes it Matari Antimatter that is going to have a whopping 12km range. Your Optimal is like 1200 and your falloff around 14km This makes it terible for pretty much anything.

...and you just don't take a 34k eHP shield Cane into scram range it doesn't end well generally.