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The Talos how will you fly it?

Author
Hrett
The Scope
Gallente Federation
#81 - 2011-11-01 06:07:15 UTC
How about instead of a web speed bonus, give it a web RANGE bonus. Problem with blaster boats isnt damage, its getting in range to apply it...

spaceship, Spaceship, SPACESHIP!

Mfume Apocal
Brutor Tribe
Minmatar Republic
#82 - 2011-11-01 06:42:27 UTC
Hrett wrote:
How about instead of a web speed bonus, give it a web RANGE bonus. Problem with blaster boats isnt damage, its getting in range to apply it...


No, no and hell no.
Hrett
The Scope
Gallente Federation
#83 - 2011-11-01 06:56:10 UTC
Mfume Apocal wrote:
Hrett wrote:
How about instead of a web speed bonus, give it a web RANGE bonus. Problem with blaster boats isnt damage, its getting in range to apply it...


No, no and hell no.


Care to explain your obviously detailed reasoning? What would be bad about a 25k + web? With the Talos new accelaratin, could catch and hold more targets...

Just curious why you had such a visceral reaction there...

spaceship, Spaceship, SPACESHIP!

Onictus
Federal Navy Academy
Gallente Federation
#84 - 2011-11-01 11:40:40 UTC
Hrett wrote:
Mfume Apocal wrote:
Hrett wrote:
How about instead of a web speed bonus, give it a web RANGE bonus. Problem with blaster boats isnt damage, its getting in range to apply it...


No, no and hell no.


Care to explain your obviously detailed reasoning? What would be bad about a 25k + web? With the Talos new accelaratin, could catch and hold more targets...

Just curious why you had such a visceral reaction there...


You want the speed penalty higher, this why you use a long point and you can nail fast frigates and cruisers while their sig is still huge from the MWD being on.

Makes up for ****** tracking a bit.
Songbird
#85 - 2011-11-01 12:18:15 UTC
The reasoning behind the web bonus to speed is that hybrids cannot hit stuff in their designated engagement rang - 4-10km (lol). Even if you did have a long range bonus you'd still be unable to hit stuff that's 20-30 out(okay you might hit it but past your falloff so not really hard).
Onictus
Federal Navy Academy
Gallente Federation
#86 - 2011-11-01 12:20:08 UTC
Songbird wrote:
The reasoning behind the web bonus to speed is that hybrids cannot hit stuff in their designated engagement rang - 4-10km (lol). Even if you did have a long range bonus you'd still be unable to hit stuff that's 20-30 out(okay you might hit it but past your falloff so not really hard).



Large neutrons go considerably past 10km my friend.


Mediums, yeah, TEx3 and null might scratch at 15, it makes me very sad. But hey, rails are worse, I have yet to fit T2 mediums to a PvP ship.....ever.
Songbird
#87 - 2011-11-01 13:06:23 UTC
Fit a mega in EFT - with AM neutrons give you 4.5+13(17 is well within a boosted fed navy web), void is 6.8+6.3.

I know what you'll say - fit TE's.

Hell I know one of the popular ships for incursions is a shield vindi with 3 TE , 3 MFS which gives you AM range of 6.4 +24.
In pvp however most pilots fit MFS rather than TE.

Besides web range has always been minmatar bonus and has nothing to do with gallente, or gallente tactics (which is to get to kissing distance and make out with hot antimatter).
Tanya Powers
Doomheim
#88 - 2011-11-01 17:33:07 UTC
Songbird wrote:
Besides web range has always been minmatar bonus and has nothing to do with gallente, or gallente tactics (which is to get to kissing distance and make out with hot antimatter).



While I agree with your statement on this precise point, we must ask ourselves how can they make the blaster boat get in range, hold their targets and melt hem.

First they need the speed -"omagad it's Minmatar stuff what are your doing you bastards???"

So, they don't get the speed and how can you warp at 0 or even at 5km each and every time, how can you target fast enough (!!!) so scram it or disrupt/web so he can't go away? -impossible

Give range to blasters- "omagad it's Minmatar and Amarr tuff! GTFO my lawn!!!"

So no range for blasters that have hard time to reach their enemy, if they ever make it, at the meanwhile they're getting melted. Blaster were supposed to be the ones who melt tuff, I mean, I thought but I was clearly wrong.

So, we keep the crap range and the slow stuff. Great improvements indeed.

Just throwing out there the same idea I've already exposed in hybrids rebalance thread, no comming from me since I'm too lazy for it right?

Give Blasters ships some feature enabling those to "warp to" very short ranges, extremely cap consuming when you use it and only usefull on enemy target 'so you can't just use it to gtfo and if no scramed -can do it disrupted-

Because if you're in scram range you should be melting that ship.

Because not being able to use this feature on friendly targets wouldn't make mechanic feature abuses to gtfo and win

Because extremely cap consuming means you must use it wisely because you're not able to use it again soon, prob with CD so you can't just fit cap inj and run here run there at your wish, once you commit to some target you stay there and do your job.

I know this is not even close to be discussed and less ever a chance to be implemented, what do you guys think?
Gazmin VanBurin
Boma Bull Corp
#89 - 2011-11-01 18:00:42 UTC
I really dotn think these ships will be the best at solo work, so normaly you would get a faster ship to get the initial tackle to slow them long enough to get your talos in range.

I personaly once the true stats are releasted will probialy eft a super bait Talos, with 2 1600 plates, 2 webs a long point, maybe a AB, ecm drones, and hopefuly 8 med electron blasters... yeah go ahead and primary the glass cannon
Tanya Powers
Doomheim
#90 - 2011-11-01 18:05:21 UTC
Gazmin VanBurin wrote:
I really dotn think these ships will be the best at solo work, so normaly you would get a faster ship to get the initial tackle to slow them long enough to get your talos in range.

I personaly once the true stats are releasted will probialy eft a super bait Talos, with 2 1600 plates, 2 webs a long point, maybe a AB, ecm drones, and hopefuly 8 med electron blasters... yeah go ahead and primary the glass cannon



Tripple plated mega does better, it has just a bigger sign radius but can fit 7 neutrons.
Hrett
The Scope
Gallente Federation
#91 - 2011-11-01 18:29:56 UTC
Songbird wrote:
Fit a mega in EFT - with AM neutrons give you 4.5+13(17 is well within a boosted fed navy web), void is 6.8+6.3.

I know what you'll say - fit TE's.

Hell I know one of the popular ships for incursions is a shield vindi with 3 TE , 3 MFS which gives you AM range of 6.4 +24.
In pvp however most pilots fit MFS rather than TE.

Besides web range has always been minmatar bonus and has nothing to do with gallente, or gallente tactics (which is to get to kissing distance and make out with hot antimatter).


Thanks for the comments all. Guess I always thought the blaster problem was not their damage, but getting in range to do their damage. With the recently posted tracking buff to blasters, I am even more of that opinion. I think a long web would be more beneficial than a speed decrease increase(?) web.

Going off of memory, Heavy neutrons with Null give about ~25k range with optimal + falloff. With one TE, its around ~30k. A long 25-30k web will allow you to stay in that range better, especially with the new speed and agility buffs. Blasters just dont do any good if you have no defense against being kited. A long web helps more with that than a bonused web. It might actually help the Talos to do some kiting of its own and lower transversal against smaller targets. And we have 25m3 of drones for frigs anyway. ;)

Just an idea. We will see how this shakes out. I like the tracking and PG changes most.

spaceship, Spaceship, SPACESHIP!

Ruah Piskonit
PIE Inc.
Khimi Harar
#92 - 2011-11-01 21:05:03 UTC
Vmir Gallahasen wrote:

I need to be able to win a 1v1, or even 1v2, 1v3 for a ship to be worth my while. Because that's what 90% of the fights I get are, and this ship would have a 90% loss rate with those odds


lol, you are a funny one.
Angry Onions
League of Angered Gentlemen
#93 - 2011-11-01 22:26:58 UTC
I'm gonna fly it like a shuttle, so I can cruise in style til I get to my Tornado.

S H I T P O S T I N G

Vmir Gallahasen
The Scope
Gallente Federation
#94 - 2011-11-01 23:18:40 UTC
Ruah Piskonit wrote:
Vmir Gallahasen wrote:

I need to be able to win a 1v1, or even 1v2, 1v3 for a ship to be worth my while. Because that's what 90% of the fights I get are, and this ship would have a 90% loss rate with those odds


lol, you are a funny one.

How so? Most players are going to run for it in a 1v1 even fight, anything you can do to make an engagement more likely (such as perception of superior ships/numbers) can slide a 30% chance 1 bc engages you to a 90% chance 2bc or 1bc + support will. I'm not necessarily talking vs multiple bc either, just multiple enemy players
Ruah Piskonit
PIE Inc.
Khimi Harar
#95 - 2011-11-02 02:46:09 UTC
Vmir Gallahasen wrote:
Ruah Piskonit wrote:
Vmir Gallahasen wrote:

I need to be able to win a 1v1, or even 1v2, 1v3 for a ship to be worth my while. Because that's what 90% of the fights I get are, and this ship would have a 90% loss rate with those odds


lol, you are a funny one.

How so? Most players are going to run for it in a 1v1 even fight, anything you can do to make an engagement more likely (such as perception of superior ships/numbers) can slide a 30% chance 1 bc engages you to a 90% chance 2bc or 1bc + support will. I'm not necessarily talking vs multiple bc either, just multiple enemy players


yah, but thats the same for every ship except the ones that don't shoot back.
Vmir Gallahasen
The Scope
Gallente Federation
#96 - 2011-11-02 03:06:26 UTC
Right, it's the same for any engagement. Which is why you want to be out of web/scram range, have a good tank/EHP, or have utility slots to even the odds/escape or else face annihilation when the blob comes. The Talos has none of these things. That's kind of my point. It's going to be a poor choice solo compared to tornado, it's going to be terrible in fleets for reasons I surely don't need to explain, and the small slice of engagements it can be useful in where there's only a handful of ships on either side it's going to have the problem of being relatively slow, paper thin, and stuck in the middle of any furball trying to do its job. Hi2primary

Does that make more sense now?
Salvia Olima
The Scope
Gallente Federation
#97 - 2011-11-02 10:04:34 UTC  |  Edited by: Salvia Olima
I will fly it with an absolutely gank fit without any real tank to speak of, other than a remote rep to rep up after the kill.
No-no expensive trimarks, no bloody plates to slow me down. Come on, it will be cheap and insurable.

L: tracking enhancers, magfields, maybe a suitcase too
M: tracking computer, mwd, point, web(s)
H: big guns and a remote rep
R: scanres and damage rigs
D: warriors

Designed to be a glasscannon, I will fly it like one. If the ship screams yarrrr, why tune it down to whisper?
Grow some balls and fly it like someone who meant to fight even if you eventually pick the short straw.
Nyla Skin
Caldari Provisions
Caldari State
#98 - 2011-11-02 10:06:18 UTC  |  Edited by: Nyla Skin
Imawuss wrote:
Honestly unless you want to throw away isk how can you use it as a glass cannon blaster boat?


This concept was dead on arrival.

Fit arties on it and use it as nanoed sniper.. Theres a high chance that the minmatar will do better in that role though.. In that case I guess it would make an ok miner.

In after the lock :P   - CCP Falcon www.nizkor.org/features/fallacies

Shivus Tao
Brutor Tribe
Minmatar Republic
#99 - 2011-11-02 11:03:29 UTC
The Talos(and possibly Naga) will be incredibly good at one activity.

Ninjaing customs offices.
Jill Antaris
Jill's Open Incursion Corp
#100 - 2011-11-02 11:15:12 UTC
Shivus Tao wrote:
The Talos(and possibly Naga) will be incredibly good at one activity.

Ship spinning without undocking them.


Fixed.