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(Odyssey) Exploration Site Mechanics

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Nifter Telfo
Ministry of War
Amarr Empire
#41 - 2013-04-27 12:59:38 UTC
Ager Agemo wrote:
It detracts from spreadsheets in space? yes


The whole reason I play EVE Online is because it is spreadsheets in space. If I wanted a twitch game I'd play the millions of FPS games.

Ager Agemo wrote:

since you guys like stuff with so much time and patience where twitching is not involved, why not make the mini game open an Excel Spreadsheet and make you guys decrypt some code using math formulas with unlimited time, to me it sounds like that is what you all people want...


I would honestly and seriously welcome this mechanic. That would actually be using my "real life" skill as you describe it. Something that I took years to study and perfect, instead of my ability to make out a tiny dot in a sea of tiny dots.

People will just use a click script in this case. It'll make out the colours for you and it'll click in the right location without fail. Best of all, it's too similar to human behaviour to get you banned.
Din Chao
#42 - 2013-04-27 12:59:45 UTC
Raptors Mole wrote:
If CCP will acutally put loot into mag sites. Thats a win right there.

You've obviously never explored in Sansha space. I made billions running Sansha Mags in null, solo, in about a month, playing only a couple hours a week. Dangerous, but profitable.

This new mechanic, however, means I'll have to return to shooting at red crosses to make any isk solo. ::yawn::
Ager Agemo
Rainbow Ponies Incorporated
#43 - 2013-04-27 13:00:39 UTC
bleh personally i will love to practice up to the point i can loot all by myself, my trackball and me are ready :D
Bizzaro Stormy MurphDog
B.L.U.E L.A.S.E.R.
#44 - 2013-04-27 13:34:08 UTC
Yaboo Sux wrote:
CCP what the crap happened to Harden The **** UP.... you give us pandas in space.. your not expanding Eve, your making it a cash cow playing to the lowest common denominator.

Your new explore is an insult to those that have invested time in getting maxed skills for exploration, to those that have run them since they were an art, before its great dumbing down for the masses a couple of years ago.

The mini game shows that you like angry birds, its a tablet game not really eve on a pc, the exploding jettisoned loot is fail, it kills solo running that many people do, or is it a ruse to get more lame alt accounts?, all the people who took time to max out the exploration related skills and learnt how to probe quickly with 5 probes have been shafted and shat on to please those who are too lazy to think and plan.

Honestly you have never really got into exploration have you, you have made it so easy that any fool and his dog on an alt will be required to get loot, you decimate the market in decryptors, which was a decent isk sink when you actually think about it, and all because shiny shiny trumps complexity and depth.

yeah this is a rant at a poorly thought out piece of work, made by people that have no talent, skill or dedication to exploration, you just put a moped engine in a sports car and gave it a go faster stripe paint job and said isn´t this the dogs bollocks.

CCP HTFU not DTFD (Dumb The **** Down)

edit: just noticed i posted on alt, sorry about that was meant to be main, just so pissed at CCP i didn´t look



I am terrified to ask how you respond when you face a small setback in life outside of the context of video games.

But I have to ask. I just . . . Have to know. So tell me, if someone, say, cuts in front of you in line . . . Is this the type of response you typically exhibit?

I am not an alt of Chribba.
Jame Jarl Retief
Deep Core Mining Inc.
Caldari State
#45 - 2013-04-27 13:36:39 UTC
Tank Talbot wrote:
However, the new system of hacking a hull by way of a mini-game that results in an explosion of goodies you and a pal have to run catch or lose looks to be a SILLY addition to play.


Agreed, that's the exact thoughts going through my head as well as I watched the presentation. This is especially bad idea if the UI is clunky. And let's face it, EVE UI is and always has been incredibly clunky. If at any point the player starts to feel that he's fighting the UI more than he's fighting the enemy/flying cans, it will have a severe negative effect on the player's perception of the game. In other words, this "feature" has serious potential to do more harm than good.

Also, thinking long-term, how does this "feature" improve the gameplay? After you do it 47897 times, will it be fun? Entertaining? Challenging? Etc.? What is its purpose, besides making things annoying for multi-boxers? And considering multi-boxers are probably the guys single-handedly keeping EVE afloat, is it smart to tick them off?

And the "hacking game" they showed? Weak. I'm sorry, but it's just weak. If you're going to do something like that, make it fun and challenging. See Bioshock hacking system, and that's just one example of dozens.
Xavier Quo
Royal Amarr Institute
Amarr Empire
#46 - 2013-04-27 13:45:04 UTC  |  Edited by: Xavier Quo
Obviously need more info but initially seems really disappointing as a full time solo explorer.

I am also hearing about new midslot modules to improve scanning? now if there are going to be like 10x more sites with some extremely hard to scan down then it's maybe ok, but it just seems odd to say "loads of people like to do solo exploration" and then make a mechanic that is geared against that, and then also further gimp an exploration ship that further widens the gap between the hunter and hunted. With an analyser and codebreaker you had very little chance of survival, now it just seems ridiculous to need another 3 mid module slots as well.

I didn't really see that much wrong with the mechanics of the old system, the loot is there and does not change based on skills, just takes more time to access cans, more risk of being scanned down etc. You still have to watch overview for spawns and dscan for players, getting Astrometrics skils, Archaeology, Salvaging, Codebreaking to V means you can find & do them quicker and be exposed for much less time, particularly in Null and WH space. Now...?

Also I wouldn't be suprised if already accepted multiboxing software can make an absolute mockery of this clicking everywhere thing.
Yaboo Sux
Doomheim
#47 - 2013-04-27 14:05:21 UTC
Bizzaro Stormy MurphDog wrote:

I am terrified to ask how you respond when you face a small setback in life outside of the context of video games.

But I have to ask. I just . . . Have to know. So tell me, if someone, say, cuts in front of you in line . . . Is this the type of response you typically exhibit?


what!...

i´ve been through loads of changes that have impacted me negatively and positively over the years, i´ve HTFU and got on with it, but this continued dumbing down goes against what EvE is at its core, what attracted long term players who invest time and effort into making other people dreams in game become real.

It is a regression to game play, its just CCP dumbing down a part of the game and making it something i´d play on a tablet not as part of eve. Other changes in ore and T2 production also impact me, but they are not DTFD the game, they are required balances to make it better.

If some one cuts in line i tell em to **** Off to the back of the line, what do you do quiver behind them in fear with no dignity?.

HTFU is EvE, making a mini tablet game that is DTFD to the lowest common denominator is WOW Pandas, all shiny and no depth
Ager Agemo
Rainbow Ponies Incorporated
#48 - 2013-04-27 14:13:08 UTC
how exactly is it dumbing it down a mechanic were you used to ONLY click F1? and now having to unlock with a mini game and then having fast reflexes?
Moneta Curran
Federal Defense Union
Gallente Federation
#49 - 2013-04-27 14:21:45 UTC
Ager Agemo wrote:
how exactly is it dumbing it down a mechanic were you used to ONLY click F1? and now having to unlock with a mini game and then having fast reflexes?


Okay, maybe "dumbing down" is not entirely correct. How about we settle for "Stupid."
Nariya Kentaya
Ministry of War
Amarr Empire
#50 - 2013-04-27 14:22:28 UTC
Altrue wrote:
I hope that this stuff is for wormholes too.

No, small groups make most of their profits in C4/C5 by having 4 guys running and a fith ina noctis, with this change, they will have to have MINIMUM 3 guys in site ships with the other two in noctis', lowering the speed they can do sites, and still making them get less money per site because they wont be able to catch them all. not to mention the fact that noctis' are usually an alt, couldnt do that anymore since your going to need a devoted player who can sit there and watch the screen to click the frakkin dots.
James Amril-Kesh
Viziam
Amarr Empire
#51 - 2013-04-27 14:23:06 UTC
Jame Jarl Retief wrote:
And the "hacking game" they showed? Weak. I'm sorry, but it's just weak. If you're going to do something like that, make it fun and challenging. See Bioshock hacking system, and that's just one example of dozens.

Did the part where Soundwave said "this is a work in progress" completely fly over your head?

Enjoying the rain today? ;)
Logan LaMort
Screaming Hayabusa
#52 - 2013-04-27 14:24:11 UTC
So let me get this right.

Pros:

  • More interactive hacking that looks to be a fun minigame and requires thinking (reminds me of Deus Ex)
  • No rats to deal with = no requirements for combat ships, friends or changing your ship and going back to a site
  • More modules to help scanning
  • If you play with others, you get rewarded more
  • Improved UI for the scanning interface

Cons:

  • If you optionally solo it, you won't get all the loot
  • If you have trouble moving a mouse and clicking at the right place on screen, you won't get all the loot.

Having trouble with mouse clicking is a legitimate problem, but I'd wager for the vast majority of pilots, this is a huge improvement.
Drew Solaert
Aliastra
Gallente Federation
#53 - 2013-04-27 14:28:21 UTC
The can collecting I think is a great idea, a way to balance rewards between solo and group play without making it a flithy isk fountain.

I lied :o
Moneta Curran
Federal Defense Union
Gallente Federation
#54 - 2013-04-27 14:32:38 UTC  |  Edited by: Moneta Curran
Logan LaMort wrote:
So let me get this right.

Ok..

Logan LaMort wrote:

Pros:

  • More interactive hacking that looks to be a fun minigame and requires thinking (reminds me of Deus Ex)


The "fun" bit here is entirely subjective. My opinion that it's terrible is just as valid, so let's discount this one.


Logan LaMort wrote:

Pros:

  • No rats to deal with = no requirements for combat ships, friends or changing your ship and going back to a site


I suppose this could arguably be called "dumbing down". Is that a pro? Again, subjective call.

Logan LaMort wrote:

Pros:

  • Improved UI for the scanning interface


The improved UI is not necessarily part of the deal here. It's perfectly viable to have an improved UI yet leave exploration mechanics like hacking as they are. So let's discount this one also.
Ari Laveran
The Scope
Gallente Federation
#55 - 2013-04-27 14:33:34 UTC  |  Edited by: Ari Laveran
The Panic is strong in this thread.

Logan LaMort has it about right. There is more good than bad here.

Is it really that far of stretch for sci-fi game that releasing an airlock would fling debris into space? I'm not understanding why this idea is upsetting so many people, or is taken as contrary to the nature of eve. The gods forbid I have to click a "thing" in my PC MMO.
Moneta Curran
Federal Defense Union
Gallente Federation
#56 - 2013-04-27 14:45:22 UTC
Ari Laveran wrote:
The Panic is strong in this thread.

Logan LaMort has it about right. There is more good than bad here.

Is it really that far of stretch for sci-fi game that releasing an airlock would fling debris into space? I'm not understanding why this idea is upsetting so many people, or is taken as contrary to the nature of eve. The gods forbid I have to click a "thing" in my PC MMO.


I suppose it all depends on the despawn rate of the 'debris'. If you want to argue suspension of disbelief, let's not imagine that these items could be stored in hard vacuum or could be collected at leisure as they will not vanish within mere seconds.
Brooks Puuntai
Solar Nexus.
#57 - 2013-04-27 14:55:28 UTC
Ari Laveran wrote:
The Panic is strong in this thread.

Logan LaMort has it about right. There is more good than bad here.

Is it really that far of stretch for sci-fi game that releasing an airlock would fling debris into space? I'm not understanding why this idea is upsetting so many people, or is taken as contrary to the nature of eve. The gods forbid I have to click a "thing" in my PC MMO.


Because adding twitch based game play, in a inherently non twitch based game is bad?

I also wonder how this would work if the system is under TIDI, slow-mo pinata?

CCP's Motto: If it isn't broken, break it. If it is broken, ignore it. Improving NPE / Dynamic New Eden
Utremi Fasolasi
La Dolce Vita
#58 - 2013-04-27 14:56:30 UTC
Gnoshia wrote:
Well it's better than the old system that much is certain.

Clicking a module and waiting to loot the can was about as mind-less and boring as you can possibly imagine. Granted this new version isn't much better, but it's enormously better than the old system.


You practically have to have both Hacking V and Archaeology V, to get the Tech II modules, plus rigs, to avoid spending most of your time just twiddling your thumbs waiting for the module to succeed on the current system.

Anything is an improvement.
Moneta Curran
Federal Defense Union
Gallente Federation
#59 - 2013-04-27 15:00:02 UTC  |  Edited by: Moneta Curran
Utremi Fasolasi wrote:
Gnoshia wrote:
Well it's better than the old system that much is certain.

Clicking a module and waiting to loot the can was about as mind-less and boring as you can possibly imagine. Granted this new version isn't much better, but it's enormously better than the old system.


You practically have to have both Hacking V and Archaeology V, to get the Tech II modules, plus rigs, to avoid spending most of your time just twiddling your thumbs waiting for the module to succeed on the current system.

Anything is an improvement.



Because why would you need to train for anything rite!? Let's just abolish the whole skill system while we're at it.

Yes! That's it.. let's be consistent and do this for mining too.. I've got a GREAT idea..

Mining lazorz are now super powerful and they blow up the roid in one shot!!

Now all you have to do, is click as fast as you can to pick up all the chunks!!!

Brilliant.
Utremi Fasolasi
La Dolce Vita
#60 - 2013-04-27 15:05:58 UTC
Moneta Curran wrote:
Utremi Fasolasi wrote:
Gnoshia wrote:
Well it's better than the old system that much is certain.

Clicking a module and waiting to loot the can was about as mind-less and boring as you can possibly imagine. Granted this new version isn't much better, but it's enormously better than the old system.


You practically have to have both Hacking V and Archaeology V, to get the Tech II modules, plus rigs, to avoid spending most of your time just twiddling your thumbs waiting for the module to succeed on the current system.

Anything is an improvement.



Because why would you need to train for anything rite!? Let's just abolish the whole skill system while we're at it.


Well truthfully, you still spend most of your time twiddling your thumbs now, just having the skills to V makes it only barely below wrist slitting levels of boredom.