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Odyssy ICE depletion...ICE RESOURCE DISTRIBUTION
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DarthNefarius
Minmatar Heavy Industries
#121 - 2013-04-26 21:02:52 UTC
Dave Stark wrote:
Herzog Wolfhammer wrote:
People are going to clamor for special "ice probes" because all those other sigs will make them have to work.


Gotta keep up that global laziness competition you know.


as far as i can tell, you don't have to probe them. just use that new discovery scanner thing and then warp to it.


huh?
An' then Chicken@little.com, he come scramblin outta the    Terminal room screaming "The system's crashing! The system's    crashing!" -Uncle RAMus, 'Tales for Cyberpsychotic Children'
Mara Rinn
Cosmic Goo Convertor
#122 - 2013-04-26 21:50:24 UTC
DarthNefarius wrote:
huh?


Use on-board system scanner to discover all anomalies. Some of those anomalies will be ice fields. Use funky new circular context menu to select "warp to" and now you are at the ice field!

Even better, you don't have to click the button to make the system scanner go, since you have already toggled the setting to keep it running all the time.

Day 0 Advice for New Players
Vincent Athena
Photosynth
#123 - 2013-04-26 22:13:37 UTC
Dave Stark wrote:
Vincent Athena wrote:
The 4 hour respawn is an issue. If I got 1 hour to kill right now can hop in a barge and get some ice. In the new system my one hour could easily fall into that 4 hour cool-down. Saying " go elsewhere" is of little help as I only got an hour.

Now if the average ice belt takes days to get mined out, this issue is small as there will only be a small chance the four hour respawn happens at the same time as my play time.


unless they announce a change in ice belts (smaller roids, less of them, or such), which they haven't done, then you're right the chance of being online during the 4hr period is small.

It seems the belts will be small. CCP mentioned that even if all were mined out 5 times a day (48 minutes of mining followed by 4 hours of waiting, 5 times a day) there would be sufficient ice for 80% of the games need, just from high sec. This implies a small belt that a reasonable swarm of miners can clear in an hour or less.

I propose ice locust fleets. The fleet has a "cycle" of solar systems it harvests. It goes to one, clears it, then the next, and so on. The loop is big enough that by the time you get back to the first the 4 hour timer has expired.

Know a Frozen fan? Check this out

Frozen fanfiction
DarthNefarius
Minmatar Heavy Industries
#124 - 2013-04-26 22:20:06 UTC  |  Edited by: DarthNefarius
Mara Rinn wrote:
DarthNefarius wrote:
huh?


Use on-board system scanner to discover all anomalies. Some of those anomalies will be ice fields. Use funky new circular context menu to select "warp to" and now you are at the ice field!

Even better, you don't have to click the button to make the system scanner go, since you have already toggled the setting to keep it running all the time.


Guess I missed that part... I thought the insta non-probe scanning was a DEV hack because Soundwave is so bad at it Lol

So these new ICEBELTS are anoms that DO NOT NEED PROBES TO BE SCANNED DOWN? \Big smile/
An' then Chicken@little.com, he come scramblin outta the    Terminal room screaming "The system's crashing! The system's    crashing!" -Uncle RAMus, 'Tales for Cyberpsychotic Children'
Dave Stark
#125 - 2013-04-26 22:23:08 UTC
Vincent Athena wrote:
Dave Stark wrote:
Vincent Athena wrote:
The 4 hour respawn is an issue. If I got 1 hour to kill right now can hop in a barge and get some ice. In the new system my one hour could easily fall into that 4 hour cool-down. Saying " go elsewhere" is of little help as I only got an hour.

Now if the average ice belt takes days to get mined out, this issue is small as there will only be a small chance the four hour respawn happens at the same time as my play time.


unless they announce a change in ice belts (smaller roids, less of them, or such), which they haven't done, then you're right the chance of being online during the 4hr period is small.

It seems the belts will be small. CCP mentioned that even if all were mined out 5 times a day (48 minutes of mining followed by 4 hours of waiting, 5 times a day) there would be sufficient ice for 80% of the games need, just from high sec. This implies a small belt that a reasonable swarm of miners can clear in an hour or less.

I propose ice locust fleets. The fleet has a "cycle" of solar systems it harvests. It goes to one, clears it, then the next, and so on. The loop is big enough that by the time you get back to the first the 4 hour timer has expired.


2 systems, 2 jumps apart.
5 ice anoms between.
Caviar Liberta
The Scope
Gallente Federation
#126 - 2013-04-26 22:24:03 UTC
Sentient Blade wrote:

Maybe add battleship rats to ice belts as well. I can see a new profession forming, merc logistics that would rep anyone they had on their books as having paid a monthly "protection" fee when they came under attack from the NPCs.


Hmmm, On my first account about 4 years ago I was mining ice in Providence with fleet with CVA protection in the ice belt.

NPC would spawn and we would get word to dock up as hostiles were heading that way. I was out warping into the belt at 0 on the warp in the warping to the other end of the belt where I had my ice jettisoned while under NPC fire. Not much of a threat really.
Xolve
GoonWaffe
Goonswarm Federation
#127 - 2013-04-26 22:24:05 UTC
DarthNefarius wrote:
Guess I missed that part... I thought the insta non-probe scanning was a DEV hack because Soundwave is so bad at it Lol

So these new ICEBELTS are anoms that DO NOT NEED PROBES TO BE SCANNED DOWN? \Big smile/


They mentioned later in the devblogs that ice/regular belts no longer need to be probed, and will show up similar to 'anomalies' (i.e. Not rated complexes) by using the ships onboard scanner.
Vincent Athena
Photosynth
#128 - 2013-04-26 22:30:28 UTC  |  Edited by: Vincent Athena
Xolve wrote:
DarthNefarius wrote:
Guess I missed that part... I thought the insta non-probe scanning was a DEV hack because Soundwave is so bad at it Lol

So these new ICEBELTS are anoms that DO NOT NEED PROBES TO BE SCANNED DOWN? \Big smile/


They mentioned later in the devblogs that ice/regular belts no longer need to be probed, and will show up similar to 'anomalies' (i.e. Not rated complexes) by using the ships onboard scanner.


Apparently ALL grav sites are going to become anomalies. I assume even the ones in W-space. No more safety by D-scanning for probes.

Know a Frozen fan? Check this out

Frozen fanfiction
Loan--Wolf
Ace's And 8's
#129 - 2013-04-26 22:50:24 UTC
grave will be anoms in wh space is this confirmed ?

and does that mean they will spawn more then like sleeper sights ?

also will they spawn sleepers more ?

this is interesting
Captain Tardbar
Deep Core Mining Inc.
Caldari State
#130 - 2013-04-26 23:01:24 UTC  |  Edited by: Captain Tardbar
Vincent Athena wrote:
It seems the belts will be small. CCP mentioned that even if all were mined out 5 times a day (48 minutes of mining followed by 4 hours of waiting, 5 times a day) there would be sufficient ice for 80% of the games need, just from high sec. This implies a small belt that a reasonable swarm of miners can clear in an hour or less.


Wait what? That's still 20% less than 100% which means ice prices will go up by at least that much.

Secondly, if belts are mined out less than an hour that means 3 hours of downtime. Which even with double the mining rate means that 2 hours no longer being utilized compared to the old system.

But the whole idea of downtime is what nags me. What if I log on after the 2nd hour? I am suppose to spin ships until another anomaly appears? And speaking of that, how in the hell do I know if I have to wait 3 hours or 10 minutes?

That's not a very fun way to spend your day.

Looking to talk on VOIP with other EVE players? Are you new and need help with EVE (welfare) or looking for advice? Looking for adversarial debate with angry people?

Captain Tardbar's Voice Discord Server
Nex apparatu5
GoonWaffe
Goonswarm Federation
#131 - 2013-04-26 23:05:03 UTC
Captain Tardbar wrote:
Vincent Athena wrote:
It seems the belts will be small. CCP mentioned that even if all were mined out 5 times a day (48 minutes of mining followed by 4 hours of waiting, 5 times a day) there would be sufficient ice for 80% of the games need, just from high sec. This implies a small belt that a reasonable swarm of miners can clear in an hour or less.


Wait what? That's still 20% less than 100% which means ice prices will go up by at least that much.

Secondly, if belts are mined out less than an hour that means 3 hours of downtime. Which even with double the mining rate means that 2 hours no longer being utilized compared to the old system.

But the whole idea of downtime is what nags me. What if I log on after the 2nd hour? I am suppose to spin ships until another anomaly appears? And speaking of that, how in the hell do I know if I have to wait 3 hours or 10 minutes?

That's not a very fun way to spend your day.


This adds competition and a dynamic aspect to who gets to mine the ice belts, something mining sorely needs.
Dave Stark
#132 - 2013-04-26 23:06:57 UTC
Captain Tardbar wrote:
Vincent Athena wrote:
It seems the belts will be small. CCP mentioned that even if all were mined out 5 times a day (48 minutes of mining followed by 4 hours of waiting, 5 times a day) there would be sufficient ice for 80% of the games need, just from high sec. This implies a small belt that a reasonable swarm of miners can clear in an hour or less.


Wait what? That's still 20% less than 100% which means ice prices will go up by at least that much.

Secondly, if belts are mined out less than an hour that means 3 hours of downtime. Which even with double the mining rate means that 2 hours no longer being utilized compared to the old system.

But the whole idea of downtime is what nags me. What if I log on after the 2nd hour? I am suppose to spin ships until another anomaly appears? And speaking of that, how in the hell do I know if I have to wait 3 hours or 10 minutes?

That's not a very fun way to spend your day.


4 hours starts as soon as the last asteroid is popped.
Dave Stark
#133 - 2013-04-26 23:08:16 UTC
Nex apparatu5 wrote:
Captain Tardbar wrote:
Vincent Athena wrote:
It seems the belts will be small. CCP mentioned that even if all were mined out 5 times a day (48 minutes of mining followed by 4 hours of waiting, 5 times a day) there would be sufficient ice for 80% of the games need, just from high sec. This implies a small belt that a reasonable swarm of miners can clear in an hour or less.


Wait what? That's still 20% less than 100% which means ice prices will go up by at least that much.

Secondly, if belts are mined out less than an hour that means 3 hours of downtime. Which even with double the mining rate means that 2 hours no longer being utilized compared to the old system.

But the whole idea of downtime is what nags me. What if I log on after the 2nd hour? I am suppose to spin ships until another anomaly appears? And speaking of that, how in the hell do I know if I have to wait 3 hours or 10 minutes?

That's not a very fun way to spend your day.


This adds competition and a dynamic aspect to who gets to mine the ice belts, something mining sorely needs.


who gets to mine the belts is whoever warps to it.
nothing changes.
Captain Tardbar
Deep Core Mining Inc.
Caldari State
#134 - 2013-04-26 23:15:04 UTC
Nex apparatu5 wrote:
This adds competition and a dynamic aspect to who gets to mine the ice belts, something mining sorely needs.


Competition? How are you supposed to compete when you don't know when the timers are? Say some guy comes in 30 minutes after downtime and mines out the belt. And then I log in two hour later. I don't see a belt. Does that mean I should wait 1 hour or two?

It's not competition, its just randomly picks a winer for every 4 hours for whenever you happen to log in. With an income so unreliable, people will go back to asteroid mining.

Madness.

Looking to talk on VOIP with other EVE players? Are you new and need help with EVE (welfare) or looking for advice? Looking for adversarial debate with angry people?

Captain Tardbar's Voice Discord Server
Shepard Wong Ogeko
Native Freshfood
Minmatar Republic
#135 - 2013-04-26 23:23:26 UTC
Captain Tardbar wrote:
Nex apparatu5 wrote:
This adds competition and a dynamic aspect to who gets to mine the ice belts, something mining sorely needs.


Competition? How are you supposed to compete when you don't know when the timers are? Say some guy comes in 30 minutes after downtime and mines out the belt. And then I log in two hour later. I don't see a belt. Does that mean I should wait 1 hour or two?

It's not competition, its just randomly picks a winer for every 4 hours for whenever you happen to log in. With an income so unreliable, people will go back to asteroid mining.

Madness.



You mean you might actually have to go look for something to mine, instead of just parking yourself in an unlimited belt to mine afk for hours on end?

Truly, this is madness Roll
Heinel Coventina
Doomheim
#136 - 2013-04-26 23:25:01 UTC
Will we get Ice Harvesters made for the Venture with the change? Or would it not be feasible?
Captain Tardbar
Deep Core Mining Inc.
Caldari State
#137 - 2013-04-26 23:31:26 UTC  |  Edited by: Captain Tardbar
Shepard Wong Ogeko wrote:
You mean you might actually have to go look for something to mine, instead of just parking yourself in an unlimited belt to mine afk for hours on end?

Truly, this is madness Roll


It might, but I enjoy this style of gameplay and pay money for it.

I posted this thread about why I enjoy ice mining:

https://forums.eveonline.com/default.aspx?g=posts&t=228866&find=unread

My point was, that if I can't enjoy a relaxing environment while doing what I enjoy then I might as well play other games.

Think of it like this, what if CCP removed ganking from the game? Wouldn't you be pissed that CCP removed something you enjoyed?

Looking to talk on VOIP with other EVE players? Are you new and need help with EVE (welfare) or looking for advice? Looking for adversarial debate with angry people?

Captain Tardbar's Voice Discord Server
DarthNefarius
Minmatar Heavy Industries
#138 - 2013-04-26 23:44:35 UTC  |  Edited by: DarthNefarius
Dave Stark wrote:
Captain Tardbar wrote:
Vincent Athena wrote:
It seems the belts will be small. CCP mentioned that even if all were mined out 5 times a day (48 minutes of mining followed by 4 hours of waiting, 5 times a day) there would be sufficient ice for 80% of the games need, just from high sec. This implies a small belt that a reasonable swarm of miners can clear in an hour or less.


Wait what? That's still 20% less than 100% which means ice prices will go up by at least that much.

Secondly, if belts are mined out less than an hour that means 3 hours of downtime. Which even with double the mining rate means that 2 hours no longer being utilized compared to the old system.

But the whole idea of downtime is what nags me. What if I log on after the 2nd hour? I am suppose to spin ships until another anomaly appears? And speaking of that, how in the hell do I know if I have to wait 3 hours or 10 minutes?

That's not a very fun way to spend your day.


4 hours starts as soon as the last asteroid is popped.



lol N.O. WILL HAVE A FIELD DAY WITH THAT!!! BUMP THE LAST PILOTS TRYING TO GET THE LAST ICE NUGGET SO NOONE GETS THE RESPAWNS Lol
An' then Chicken@little.com, he come scramblin outta the    Terminal room screaming "The system's crashing! The system's    crashing!" -Uncle RAMus, 'Tales for Cyberpsychotic Children'
Dilbert HighSeed
Pirannha Corp
#139 - 2013-04-27 00:01:29 UTC
Captain Tardbar wrote:
Shepard Wong Ogeko wrote:
You mean you might actually have to go look for something to mine, instead of just parking yourself in an unlimited belt to mine afk for hours on end?

Truly, this is madness Roll


It might, but I enjoy this style of gameplay and pay money for it.

I posted this thread about why I enjoy ice mining:

https://forums.eveonline.com/default.aspx?g=posts&t=228866&find=unread

My point was, that if I can't enjoy a relaxing environment while doing what I enjoy then I might as well play other games.

Think of it like this, what if CCP removed ganking from the game? Wouldn't you be pissed that CCP removed something you enjoyed?


It's going to be even worse than you imagine, since all ice mining cycles are being halved.
An organized group will be clearing out ice belts in minutes.

But that is exactly what the goon lead designer said he wanted. He said he wanted ice to be a conflict driver.
He wants the strong (read as the large cartels) preying on the weak (read as solo causal players).

You can bet on the fact that the null sec cartels are already organizing mining groups that will clear out all the belts in a high sec region, and start controlling the supply of ice to anyone needing it. Yeah, I am talking about interdicting the supply, not by blowing boats up, but by out-mining everyone.

It will be simple enough. They will have their alt's in 100 MN FSI's bump any non-allied mining boat off the ice belt, leaving the allied miners in the belts to gather in the resources.
Vaju Enki
Secular Wisdom
#140 - 2013-04-27 00:11:27 UTC
Captain Tardbar wrote:
Shepard Wong Ogeko wrote:
You mean you might actually have to go look for something to mine, instead of just parking yourself in an unlimited belt to mine afk for hours on end?

Truly, this is madness Roll


It might, but I enjoy this style of gameplay and pay money for it.

I posted this thread about why I enjoy ice mining:

https://forums.eveonline.com/default.aspx?g=posts&t=228866&find=unread

My point was, that if I can't enjoy a relaxing environment while doing what I enjoy then I might as well play other games.

Think of it like this, what if CCP removed ganking from the game? Wouldn't you be pissed that CCP removed something you enjoyed?


The thing is, there is nothing wrong with ganking, but the same can't be said for highsec industry. This change was long overdue, highsec risk vs reward has broken.

Also, you're not entitled to anything just because you pay money. Don't like the changes, go play some themepark game that suits you.

The Tears Must Flow