These forums have been archived and are now read-only.

The new forums are live and can be found at https://forums.eveonline.com/

EVE General Discussion

 
  • Topic is locked indefinitely.
 

Player morality in EVE online. Why did you leave it at the door?

First post
Author
Previous Topic Next Topic
Twisted Alice
Doomheim
#461 - 2011-11-02 01:13:20 UTC
Thomas Orca wrote:
MatrixSkye Mk2 wrote:


Man, why didn't you say so before!? If Genghis Khan himself enjoyed the suffering of others, then who is anybody to question this enjoyment? My apologies. Carry on.


Point is, tis a natural thing to enjoy making others suffer, deal with it.

EDIT: Also, Genghis Khan was a badass, and you would do well to listen to advice he gave.





Making people suffer and enjoying it is far from natural. More like disturbed.

Maybe it comes naturally to some but not to any civilised person.
Thomas Orca
Broski is ded
#462 - 2011-11-02 01:20:03 UTC  |  Edited by: Thomas Orca
Twisted Alice wrote:
Thomas Orca wrote:
MatrixSkye Mk2 wrote:


Man, why didn't you say so before!? If Genghis Khan himself enjoyed the suffering of others, then who is anybody to question this enjoyment? My apologies. Carry on.


Point is, tis a natural thing to enjoy making others suffer, deal with it.

EDIT: Also, Genghis Khan was a badass, and you would do well to listen to advice he gave.





Making people suffer and enjoying it is far from natural. More like disturbed.

Maybe it comes naturally to some but not to any civilised person.


In the societies of any social creature, it is the dominant male who gets to mate, and therefore, produce offspring. This creates competition between males, which usually leads to fighting. Which leads to the injury and/or humiliation of others. As social creatures evolved, the pleasure in the injury and/or humiliation of others would become a desirable trait, as the males who possessed it would be more likely to engage in dominance behavior. Therefore, over time social creatures evolve to enjoy the humiliation of others.

EDIT: Civilized is far from a well-defined term, as anyone of any culture would consider Native American civilized, however the European settlers saw them as inferior peoples who were savage. Stop being a bigot.
Herzog Wolfhammer
Sigma Special Tactics Group
#463 - 2011-11-02 01:22:08 UTC
Thomas Orca wrote:
Twisted Alice wrote:
Thomas Orca wrote:
MatrixSkye Mk2 wrote:


Man, why didn't you say so before!? If Genghis Khan himself enjoyed the suffering of others, then who is anybody to question this enjoyment? My apologies. Carry on.


Point is, tis a natural thing to enjoy making others suffer, deal with it.

EDIT: Also, Genghis Khan was a badass, and you would do well to listen to advice he gave.





Making people suffer and enjoying it is far from natural. More like disturbed.

Maybe it comes naturally to some but not to any civilised person.


In the societies of any social creature, it is the dominant male who gets to mate, and therefore, produce offspring. This creates competition between males, which usually leads to fighting. Which leads to the injury and/or humiliation of others. As social creatures evolved, the pleasure in the injury and/or humiliation of others would become a desirable trait, as the males who possessed it would be more likely to engage in dominance behavior. Therefore, over time social creatures evolve to enjoy the humiliation of others.



Someday reality is going to hit you very hard.


Bring back DEEEEP Space!
Thomas Orca
Broski is ded
#464 - 2011-11-02 01:24:44 UTC
Herzog Wolfhammer wrote:

Someday reality is going to hit you very hard.




You're just jealous that I'm comfortable in myself, while you have to justify your actions to a social code that you think is deemed "acceptable" by society.
Twisted Alice
Doomheim
#465 - 2011-11-02 01:28:31 UTC
Thomas Orca wrote:
Twisted Alice wrote:
Thomas Orca wrote:
MatrixSkye Mk2 wrote:


Man, why didn't you say so before!? If Genghis Khan himself enjoyed the suffering of others, then who is anybody to question this enjoyment? My apologies. Carry on.


Point is, tis a natural thing to enjoy making others suffer, deal with it.

EDIT: Also, Genghis Khan was a badass, and you would do well to listen to advice he gave.





Making people suffer and enjoying it is far from natural. More like disturbed.

Maybe it comes naturally to some but not to any civilised person.


In the societies of any social creature, it is the dominant male who gets to mate, and therefore, produce offspring. .



If you consider the human race as animals and think that animal behavoiur is appropriate for the human race, then I can see where you're coming from.

Fortunately for most people they don't consider themselves animals and don't give in to basic instincts, which is part of what seperates us from animals.

The ones that act more like animals are what I'd term as uncivilised.
Thomas Orca
Broski is ded
#466 - 2011-11-02 01:32:59 UTC
Twisted Alice wrote:



If you consider the human race as animals and think that animal behavoiur is appropriate for the human race, then I can see where you're coming from.

Fortunately for most people they don't consider themselves animals and don't give in to basic instincts, which is part of what seperates us from animals.

The ones that act more like animals are what I'd term as uncivilised.



Anyone who isn't a member of the church of Scientology or a creationist should realize that all humans are animals. As all humans are animals, they are driven by animal reflexes at their core (Humans do give into their basic instincts much more than some animals, as much as we like to feel we do not.) . It is therefore foolish to argue that humans are unaffected by the drive of their ancestors.
Mortis vonShadow
Balanaz Mining and Development Inc.
#467 - 2011-11-02 01:34:28 UTC
Twisted Alice wrote:

Fortunately for most people they don't consider themselves animals...




I'm a mineral. No no no thats not right. I'm a plant. Yeah, thats it, I'm a semi-aquatic space potato from the 83rd dimension.

Some days you're the bug, and some days your the windscreen.                   And some days, you're just a man with a gun.
Herzog Wolfhammer
Sigma Special Tactics Group
#468 - 2011-11-02 01:38:40 UTC
Thomas Orca wrote:
Herzog Wolfhammer wrote:

Someday reality is going to hit you very hard.




You're just jealous that I'm comfortable in myself, while you have to justify your actions to a social code that you think is deemed "acceptable" by society.



LOL.

I am the kind of person who has spent much of his life dealing with the likes of you and training other people to deal with the likes of you and I am very comfortable with myself.

I give you credit at least. You remind of of the mercs who once told me with glee how they would take a contract to disarm people, forcibly relocate them, even kill them, any country, any place, any time - all for a paycheck. They at least knew they were scumbags and I had more respect for them than I did for those who wore the uniform and did roughly the same things but allowed themselves to think it was for some good reason. The former I can tell them to their faces they were murdering scum and they would say "yeah". The latter you can ask them if they really thought the foreign policies they fought under are questionable and they freak out and want to fight you.

This is why, in this game, and the forums as well, all I would ask is that people be honest with their intentions. So they want to gank, blob, and all that other stuff. Big deal. But don't insult my intelligence trying to justify it behind game mechanics or some notion of "how EvE should be played". It they like tears, say it. If they like to see someone get mad, admit it.

I don't think they come to the forums trying to make some case for "their play style" as they call it as if to induce Stockholm Syndrome in the player base so much that they line up at the gate camps to get popped. And I don't think they actually think they are going to fool anybody. It's a matter of self-aggrandizement , like the kind of person who goes out of their way to have sex with their best friends GF or wife and enjoy pretending they are still the best friend. It's part of the lie, part of the grief giving.

So that's all I would expect. If you have Doochebaggery and asshattery trained to level 5, proudly display your Elite rating and stop hiding behind dogma, whether it's some crap about "Eve is a PVP game only" or " it's a natural thing to make people suffer". No. Call yourself what you are and be honest about it and don't try to pee down my back and tell me it's raining.

Bring back DEEEEP Space!
Jaroslav Unwanted
Brutor Tribe
Minmatar Republic
#469 - 2011-11-02 01:39:40 UTC  |  Edited by: Jaroslav Unwanted
Thomas Orca wrote:
Twisted Alice wrote:



If you consider the human race as animals and think that animal behavoiur is appropriate for the human race, then I can see where you're coming from.

Fortunately for most people they don't consider themselves animals and don't give in to basic instincts, which is part of what seperates us from animals.

The ones that act more like animals are what I'd term as uncivilised.



Anyone who isn't a member of the church of Scientology or a creationist should realize that all humans are animals. As all humans are animals, they are driven by animal reflexes at their core (Humans do give into their basic instincts much more than some animals, as much as we like to feel we do not.) . It is therefore foolish to argue that humans are unaffected by the drive of their ancestors.



Basically you are correct.
However man will stop act like an man under certein situations stress overload is most common. Society as such didnt flourish because one man butchered several others to prove he is the one. It flourish because the rules has been implied to day-to-day basic live.
Yet even as an society we havent changed much since 3k b.c.

So go figure yourself from where is the ancestral pre-desposion comes from ? 50k b.c. 100k b.c. ??? Or are we all just fishes ?
Thomas Orca
Broski is ded
#470 - 2011-11-02 01:45:31 UTC
Jaroslav Unwanted wrote:
[


Basically you are correct.
However man will stop act like an man under certein situations stress overload is most common. Society as such didnt flourish because one man butchered several others to prove he is the one. It flourish because the rules has been implied to day-to-day basic live.
Yet even as an society we havent changed much since 3k b.c.

So go figure yourself from where is the ancestral pre-desposion comes from ? 50k b.c. 100k b.c. ??? Or are we all just fishes ?


Fish like food, do you like food?
Twisted Alice
Doomheim
#471 - 2011-11-02 01:45:43 UTC
Thomas Orca wrote:
Twisted Alice wrote:



If you consider the human race as animals and think that animal behavoiur is appropriate for the human race, then I can see where you're coming from.

Fortunately for most people they don't consider themselves animals and don't give in to basic instincts, which is part of what seperates us from animals.

The ones that act more like animals are what I'd term as uncivilised.



Anyone who isn't a member of the church of Scientology or a creationist should realize that all humans are animals. As all humans are animals, they are driven by animal reflexes at their core (Humans do give into their basic instincts much more than some animals, as much as we like to feel we do not.) . It is therefore foolish to argue that humans are unaffected by the drive of their ancestors.




You have a very strange view of the world.


That's why you need morals and principles, they act like checks and balances. A way of keeping you more human and less animal.
Thomas Orca
Broski is ded
#472 - 2011-11-02 01:47:54 UTC
Herzog Wolfhammer wrote:


LOL.

I am the kind of person who has spent much of his life dealing with the likes of you and training other people to deal with the likes of you and I am very comfortable with myself.

I give you credit at least. You remind of of the mercs who once told me with glee how they would take a contract to disarm people, forcibly relocate them, even kill them, any country, any place, any time - all for a paycheck. They at least knew they were scumbags and I had more respect for them than I did for those who wore the uniform and did roughly the same things but allowed themselves to think it was for some good reason. The former I can tell them to their faces they were murdering scum and they would say "yeah". The latter you can ask them if they really thought the foreign policies they fought under are questionable and they freak out and want to fight you.

This is why, in this game, and the forums as well, all I would ask is that people be honest with their intentions. So they want to gank, blob, and all that other stuff. Big deal. But don't insult my intelligence trying to justify it behind game mechanics or some notion of "how EvE should be played". It they like tears, say it. If they like to see someone get mad, admit it.

I don't think they come to the forums trying to make some case for "their play style" as they call it as if to induce Stockholm Syndrome in the player base so much that they line up at the gate camps to get popped. And I don't think they actually think they are going to fool anybody. It's a matter of self-aggrandizement , like the kind of person who goes out of their way to have sex with their best friends GF or wife and enjoy pretending they are still the best friend. It's part of the lie, part of the grief giving.

So that's all I would expect. If you have Doochebaggery and asshattery trained to level 5, proudly display your Elite rating and stop hiding behind dogma, whether it's some crap about "Eve is a PVP game only" or " it's a natural thing to make people suffer". No. Call yourself what you are and be honest about it and don't try to pee down my back and tell me it's raining.


So Jelly.
Amro One
One.
#473 - 2011-11-02 01:52:51 UTC
I left my caring bag at home.
Aggressive Nutmeg
#474 - 2011-11-02 01:55:35 UTC
Thomas Orca wrote:
As all humans are animals, they are driven by animal reflexes at their core (Humans do give into their basic instincts much more than some animals, as much as we like to feel we do not.) . It is therefore foolish to argue that humans are unaffected by the drive of their ancestors.

You may not be able to leave it alone because you are driven by your urges, but that doesn't make the rest of us chronic self abusers.

I hope that when you are no longer a teenager you will have the discipline and insight to develop into something more than just animal instinct.

You have my pity in the meantime.

Good day, sir.

Never make eye contact with someone while eating a banana.
Twisted Alice
Doomheim
#475 - 2011-11-02 01:55:36 UTC
Amro One wrote:
I left my caring bag at home.




And what makes you think anyone cares that you left your caring bag at home?
Thomas Orca
Broski is ded
#476 - 2011-11-02 01:59:11 UTC  |  Edited by: Thomas Orca
Aggressive Nutmeg wrote:
Thomas Orca wrote:
As all humans are animals, they are driven by animal reflexes at their core (Humans do give into their basic instincts much more than some animals, as much as we like to feel we do not.) . It is therefore foolish to argue that humans are unaffected by the drive of their ancestors.

You may not be able to leave it alone because you are driven by your urges, but that doesn't make the rest of us chronic self abusers.

I hope that when you are no longer a teenager you will have the discipline and insight to develop into something more than just animal instinct.

You have my pity in the meantime.

Good day, sir.


And so due to the lack of any argument, you fall to insults.

This is what happens when you bring evolution into the mix, the creationists do it all the time as well, though they are more entertaining with their comebacks and insults.
Thomas Orca
Broski is ded
#477 - 2011-11-02 02:36:09 UTC
Twisted Alice wrote:



You have a very strange view of the world.


That's why you need morals and principles, they act like checks and balances. A way of keeping you more human and less animal.



I at no point implied that morals and principles are not important. What I did state, was that Humans are animals, which is a commonly known fact, and that Humans are subconsciously influenced by ancestral drives implanted by evolution. My point, which you acknowledged earlier as legitimate from the viewpoint I was taking, is that it is rather logical to assume that there is a natural drive to take joy in dominance behavior. In current western society, it is seen as slightly barbaric. It is therefore suppressed by many members of Western society. However, in other cultures, such as that of the Mongols, one of whom I quoted earlier, it was an accepted part of society. In said cultures, this natural drive was perfectly acceptable to follow under certain circumstances.

However, in the application of this to a game like EVE, where there is no society, and therefore no societal unspoken law, there is no reason to suppress such primal drives. Which is why some do not. Those that do not, probably excel in compartmentalization, while those that choose to bring their societal moral compass onto a playing field where it does not apply, are most likely less adept at making such distinctions.
Corina Jarr
en Welle Shipping Inc.
#478 - 2011-11-02 03:15:30 UTC
Thomas Orca wrote:
Aggressive Nutmeg wrote:
Thomas Orca wrote:
As all humans are animals, they are driven by animal reflexes at their core (Humans do give into their basic instincts much more than some animals, as much as we like to feel we do not.) . It is therefore foolish to argue that humans are unaffected by the drive of their ancestors.

You may not be able to leave it alone because you are driven by your urges, but that doesn't make the rest of us chronic self abusers.

I hope that when you are no longer a teenager you will have the discipline and insight to develop into something more than just animal instinct.

You have my pity in the meantime.

Good day, sir.


And so due to the lack of any argument, you fall to insults.

This is what happens when you bring evolution into the mix, the creationists do it all the time as well, though they are more entertaining with their comebacks and insults.

Please tell me you know the difference between a creationist and someone who simply believes in creation?

And the insults start coming when the other side runs out of things to say. It doesn't matter if evolution was mentioned or not.
Drakarin
The Scope
Gallente Federation
#479 - 2011-11-02 03:18:54 UTC
I am incapable of turning off the moral center of my brain, even while playing EvE. I know so many people that flip that switch like it's a light but I just can't do it. I feel horrible causing someone else frustration.

Yet, at the same time, I realize that without bad people, EvE would be boring.
Corina Jarr
en Welle Shipping Inc.
#480 - 2011-11-02 03:21:11 UTC
Drakarin wrote:
...
Yet, at the same time, I realize that without bad people, EvE would be boring.

This is true. No thrill when I see someone in lowsec and I'm mining.