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Ore Changes For Odyssey
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Mara Rinn
Cosmic Goo Convertor
#41 - 2013-04-26 21:25:49 UTC
And then there's replacing grav sites which require exploration, as in time spent with probes out advertising that you're looking for something or someone, with anomalies which only require pressing a button (assuming you don't have the system scanner locked on perma-scan) then selecting warp-to.

This isn't just dumbing down the game, this is screwing over miners with ill-concieved poorly thought through changes.

Turn up to the Resource Rebalancing table to watch this balding middle aged guy go apoplectic with rage over his rocks being violated.

YOU TOUCHED MY ROCKS IN A VERY NOT NICE WAY!

Day 0 Advice for New Players
Dave Stark
#42 - 2013-04-26 21:26:16 UTC  |  Edited by: Dave Stark
DKE Milio wrote:
Dave Stark wrote:
Mara Rinn wrote:
Hisec miners can kiss their income goodbye, and Spod will return to being the least valuable ore in the game (adding 10k of something worth 0 ISK means you are reducing the value of that ore).

Good job, CCP. I though you were past the sledge-hammer-instead-of-a-scalpel approach to rebalancing?


10,000 trit from veldspar. 333m3 of ore
10,000 trit from spod. 4000m3 of ore.

trit obtained from 4000m3 of veldspar, 120,000

you're getting 12x the trit, from veldspar than you do spod.

also even at current prices, spod is already ahead of veldspar and a fall in trit prices only widens the gap due to spod's other mineral content.


This is not correct:
One batch of Spod (4,000 m3) refines into 71,000 trit >> /4,000 = 17.75 trit per m3
One batch of Veld (33.3 m3) refines into 1,000 trit >> / 33.3 = 30.03 trit per m3

Conclusion: Veldspar holds 1.69x more trit (30.03/17.75).
Since Spodumain is easier to mine (larger rocks) this will give a large (and much needed) buff to nullsec mining.


did i bodge my maths again?

trit is
4000m3 / 33.3m3 ~ 120 batches. 120 batches * 1000 trit per batch. 120k trit.

4000m3 is 1 batch of scord. that's 71000 trit.

why the hell did i put 10k trit from 1 spod refine? i'm being a mong tonight. trying to update so many spreadsheets at once.
point still stands 120k > 71k.
Nathalie LaPorte
Native Freshfood
Minmatar Republic
#43 - 2013-04-26 21:26:46 UTC
Regnag Leppod wrote:
Quote:
The focus of our Ore Mining changes in Odyssey is on ensuring that there are viable and valuable mining opportunities for players in all areas of New Eden. We want mining in low security space to be an activity worthy of the risks taken, and for Nullsec empires to rely on miners and industrialists, welcoming them into their ranks. Creating a new home for these miners also provides opportunities for pilots interested in PVP, as mining is an activity that can be both disrupted and protected by small gangs of ships.


I'm probably just blind, but I don't see any changes to Jaspet/Hemorphite/Hedbergite in that blog, so how exactly does all this mix up make mining in low-sec "worthy of the risks taken"?

It's a good shake up, one that's been needed, but I'm not seeing the changes making any difference between 0.4 and 0.1


High sec ores will see a large drop in value, so low sec ores will be worth proportionately more than highsec than they were before. Low sec ice mining should be more worth doing as well, low sec ice is worth more than highsec ice, highsec ice becoming scarce means that low sec ice mining will become more worth doing after the change, and the double-speed ice harvesters will be a straight boost to lowsec ice mining, instead of a compensation for decreased availability like in highsec.
Prekaz
The Exchange Collective
Solyaris Chtonium
#44 - 2013-04-26 21:28:05 UTC
Mara Rinn wrote:
And then there's replacing grav sites which require exploration, as in time spent with probes out advertising that you're looking for something or someone, with anomalies which only require pressing a button (assuming you don't have the system scanner locked on perma-scan) then selecting warp-to.

This isn't just dumbing down the game, this is screwing over miners with ill-concieved poorly thought through changes.

Turn up to the Resource Rebalancing table to watch this balding middle aged guy go apoplectic with rage over his rocks being violated.

YOU TOUCHED MY ROCKS IN A VERY NOT NICE WAY!



The part you don't like is actually the very best part of all.
Dave Stark
#45 - 2013-04-26 21:28:59 UTC
Prekaz wrote:
Dave Stark wrote:
Prekaz wrote:
Doesn't seem very ambiguous, and doesn't seem to distinguish between upgrades and exploration as you're claiming.


the first sentence

Quote:
We will also be making a significant change to the way hidden asteroid belts will be found by players.

grav sites are grav sites
sov upgrades are hidden belts. hidden belts are just accessed in the same way grav sites are, currently.



Yeah, you're seriously confused. Hidden belts and grav sites are pretty clearly the same thing in that paragraph.

You would have to be daft to think that they're going to put in new ice belts (as anoms), convert upgrade-spawned sites to anoms, and leave exploration gravimetric sites as grav sigs, with the only indication being an extremely arbitrary bit of semantics that are functionally synonymous.

It quite clearly says, "We are phasing out the Gravimetric signature category."

They're going away.


no, you are right. if you read the following sentence it's even more clear "for all ore sites".
my mistake.
Chris Winter
Bene Gesserit ChapterHouse
The Curatores Veritatis Auxiliary
#46 - 2013-04-26 21:39:00 UTC
This basically kills mining in wormholes.

Right now, mining in WHs is only barely safe by virtue of your opponents needing to get probes out to find you, and an experienced prober can still find you with the probes only being visible on dscan for less than 30 seconds. But that still gives the victim--I mean, miner--a small chance to spot the probes and GTFO before it's too late.

With grav sites being anoms, you have only a few seconds' window to spot the attacker (if their incoming wh is within dscan range, the short period between wh cloak and true cloak), or no window at all.

The rest of the changes look good, but mining in WHs will become significantly more dangerous in Odyssey.
Mara Rinn
Cosmic Goo Convertor
#47 - 2013-04-26 21:41:36 UTC
Prekaz wrote:
The part you don't like is actually the very best part of all.


Only if you're the AFK cloaker looking for a mining fleet to drop a black ops raiding fleet on top of. This change will reduce the attractiveness of mining in nullsec. Who knows, maybe hisec won't be dead after all.

Odyssey will be a great time to get my covert ops alts out to null.

Day 0 Advice for New Players
Zifrian
The Frog Pond
Ribbit.
#48 - 2013-04-26 21:43:33 UTC  |  Edited by: Zifrian
AnimeHeretic wrote:
Im not much of a miner. But what exactly am I seeing here?

http://community.eveonline.com/news/dev-blogs/resource-companion-blog

It's looks to me like they're adding huge amounts of trit and pyreite to all the high end ore.

Someone explain how this will affect ore prices.

Here's what it looks like using today's Jita prices: http://imageshack.us/a/img132/6756/neworenumbers426prices.jpg

I think it's a great change. ABC (D?) exist in null. In null we need trit and pyerite. Right now, we compress them with 425s then jump back to null. Now we won't have to bother with that as much.

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Dave Stark
#49 - 2013-04-26 21:46:21 UTC
hulk aligns and warps in just under 18 seconds. other exhumers, faster.

can you enter a system, scan it, warp to the anom, and tackle/light cyno within 18 seconds?
Rengerel en Distel
#50 - 2013-04-26 21:47:47 UTC  |  Edited by: Rengerel en Distel
Dave Stark wrote:
hulk aligns and warps in just under 18 seconds. other exhumers, faster.

can you enter a system, scan it, warp to the anom, and tackle/light cyno within 18 seconds?


Since the scan seems to happen on session change, i'd guess yes, depending on the distance.

edit: in WHs, the miner wouldn't have any indication you're even there, unless the WH you enter is within dscan range.

With the increase in shiptoasting, the Report timer needs to be shortened.
Zifrian
The Frog Pond
Ribbit.
#51 - 2013-04-26 21:50:46 UTC
Chris Winter wrote:
This basically kills mining in wormholes.

Right now, mining in WHs is only barely safe by virtue of your opponents needing to get probes out to find you, and an experienced prober can still find you with the probes only being visible on dscan for less than 30 seconds. But that still gives the victim--I mean, miner--a small chance to spot the probes and GTFO before it's too late.

With grav sites being anoms, you have only a few seconds' window to spot the attacker (if their incoming wh is within dscan range, the short period between wh cloak and true cloak), or no window at all.

The rest of the changes look good, but mining in WHs will become significantly more dangerous in Odyssey.

I personally don't like that change. Why remove grav sites from scanning? Yeah, it makes it easier but it seems like a baby/bathwater change. Maybe just wh's since scanning is such an integral part of them?

Maximze your Industry Potential! - Download EVE Isk per Hour!

Import CCP's SDE - EVE SDE Database Builder
Dave Stark
#52 - 2013-04-26 21:51:49 UTC
Rengerel en Distel wrote:
Dave Stark wrote:
hulk aligns and warps in just under 18 seconds. other exhumers, faster.

can you enter a system, scan it, warp to the anom, and tackle/light cyno within 18 seconds?


Since the scan seems to happen on session change, i'd guess yes, depending on the distance.

edit: in WHs, the miner wouldn't have any indication you're even there, unless the WH you enter is within dscan range.


really i thought you had to click a button like d-scan? no matter.

and yes, this is going to be an issue in wormholes since there's no local to alert you of their entrance to the system. you're basically going to get ******.
Mara Rinn
Cosmic Goo Convertor
#53 - 2013-04-26 21:57:00 UTC
Dave Stark wrote:
can you enter a system, scan it, warp to the anom, and tackle/light cyno within 18 seconds?


If I'm AFK cloaked in the system, chances are I'm already sitting in the anomaly when the mining fleet arrives.

Heck, if I'm flying an Arazu there's not even any need to cyno anyone else in. Just warp scram, deploy drones, have at thee!

Day 0 Advice for New Players
Skeln Thargensen
Doomheim
#54 - 2013-04-26 22:06:53 UTC
yeah, if you google for blogs on stealth bomber solo wh piracy that's exactly what they do, prescan all the signatures and camp.

forums.  serious business.
Dave Stark
#55 - 2013-04-26 22:09:35 UTC
now just think.

off grid boosting is removed.

here, you might need some tissues...
Mara Rinn
Cosmic Goo Convertor
#56 - 2013-04-26 22:18:07 UTC
Dave Stark wrote:
now just think.

off grid boosting is removed.

here, you might need some tissues...


Pity there's no mention of moving the mining foreman link bonus from the industrial core to the rorqual hull.

Day 0 Advice for New Players
violator2k5
Crescent Nova
#57 - 2013-04-26 22:26:00 UTC
you guys are all posting #'s but what if they change the amount of ore required per refine?

that's what im curious about tbh is the amount of ore per refine going to stay the same or be changed.
Dave Stark
#58 - 2013-04-26 22:26:57 UTC
violator2k5 wrote:
you guys are all posting #'s but what if they change the amount of ore required per refine?

that's what im curious about tbh is the amount of ore per refine going to stay the same or be changed.


i assume, as it's not in the numbers blog, that it's not changing.
violator2k5
Crescent Nova
#59 - 2013-04-26 22:39:58 UTC
Dave Stark wrote:
i assume, as it's not in the numbers blog, that it's not changing.


yea but when do they add everything to the publics eye, there's always something stealthed into the game from time to time
Dave Stark
#60 - 2013-04-26 22:44:54 UTC
violator2k5 wrote:
Dave Stark wrote:
i assume, as it's not in the numbers blog, that it's not changing.


yea but when do they add everything to the publics eye, there's always something stealthed into the game from time to time


well it's pretty pointless giving us new mineral batch refining numbers, if they're changing batch sizes as it'd mean nothing so they'd have wasted their time giving us the numbers...