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Hisec ice removal
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Elena Thiesant
The Scope
Gallente Federation
#61 - 2013-04-26 19:02:24 UTC
Actual bots will be able to adapt (be reprogrammed). People who are AFK mining however may be affected.
Haulie Berry
#62 - 2013-04-26 19:03:18 UTC
Krixtal Icefluxor
INLAND EMPIRE Galactic
#63 - 2013-04-26 19:05:25 UTC  |  Edited by: Krixtal Icefluxor
That 23/7 efficiency will be broken. Constantly reconfiguring their scripts will at least put a dent in their activities and amount they actually mine. I bet a lot will just give up.

Edit: since the sites will respawn 4 hours after depletion, I don't think there is going to be a whole lot of Ice available at any one time in a site. Certainly not for some of the large botting operations I have encountered. I predict about 3 Orca Loads per site.

"He has mounted his hind-legs, and blown crass vapidities through the bowel of his neck."  - Ambrose Bierce on Oscar Wilde's Lecture in San Francisco 1882
Haulie Berry
#64 - 2013-04-26 19:08:01 UTC
Not much in the way of numbers on Ice, but this is pretty to the point:

Quote:
When Odyssey is released, the current static (and massive) ice belts spread throughout space will be removed from the game, and replaced by a series of Ore Anomalies that will spawn and respawn only in systems that previously contained the aforementioned static ice belts. These belts will respawn in exactly the same system four hours after they are completed, to ensure that players from all time zones will be able to partake in ice harvesting and enjoy the spoils. The amount of ice found in these sites will be tuned to ensure that most, but not all, of the ice needs of the New Eden cluster can be provided by high security belts. At our current numbers, the maximum supply of ice from highsec (assuming that each belt is mined out completely five times a day) would provide approximately 80% of the game's ice needs, ensuring that at least some of the ice mining must be undertaken in lower security space. For context, this means that highsec will still be a large exporter of ice products, being able to generate eight times the volume of isotopes used by highsec control towers.
Nex apparatu5
GoonWaffe
Goonswarm Federation
#65 - 2013-04-26 19:08:12 UTC
Dave Stark wrote:
Haulie Berry wrote:
Dave Stark wrote:
Elena Thiesant wrote:
My rough notes from the keynote:

Ice belts move into anomalies, will spawn in systems that previously had ice belts. Can be mined out, when they are they’ll respawn 4 hours later.

Wonder if I can get my fuel sold before everyone gets the news, bought the ice before the spike started :-)


unless ice depletes SIGNIFICANTLY faster, that 4hr respawn will mean nothing. warping to a different location is also completely irrelevant. i'm not sure that'll stop bots.


It seems safe to assume that it's implied that ice will deplete significantly faster, because otherwise - like you said - it would be meaningless.


i don't trust implications, i trust facts.


CCP has stated they believe that ice belts will be mined out 5 times a day, which means that depletion is significantly faster.
Haulie Berry
#66 - 2013-04-26 19:13:22 UTC  |  Edited by: Haulie Berry
Krixtal Icefluxor wrote:
That 23/7 efficiency will be broken. Constantly reconfiguring their scripts will at least put a dent in their activities and amount they actually mine. I bet a lot will just give up.

Edit: since the sites will respawn 4 hours after depletion, I don't think there is going to be a whole lot of Ice available at any one time in a site. Certainly not for some of the large botting operations I have encountered. I predict about 3 Orca Loads per site.


Doubtful. It would not be even remotely difficult for a competent programmer to compensate for this. You already know which systems ice will spawn in, so it's just a simple matter of some routines for doing a scan (and these are anomalies, not signatures - no probes or effort required, just click the button) and warping to the ice belts. Easypeasy.

So, the end result is that it will not deter botting. I wouldn't be at all surprised if it actually encourages botting. Why wouldn't it? It's easy to compensate for the mechanical changes, and the activity will now be more lucrative.

But like I said before, deterring bots isn't really the goal here, imo. That's for Team Security to handle.
Elena Thiesant
The Scope
Gallente Federation
#67 - 2013-04-26 19:15:37 UTC  |  Edited by: Elena Thiesant
But there won't be any constant reconfiguring, just requires the bot developers to make a single, once-off change that allows the bots to scan, warp and detect mined out.

Might get rid of them for a day or two while the bot developers recode things.

What it might do is make bot behaviour easier to detect.
Dave stark
#68 - 2013-04-26 19:17:49 UTC
haven't read the ice changes yet.

however based on the new mineral compositions (yay oreicide!)

the large grav site is STILL the most lucrative at current prices.
also, at current prices the large grav site is 24.4% more lucrative than scordite. (and that's before rorq bonuses)
ccp have saved null sec mining.
Haulie Berry
#69 - 2013-04-26 19:22:55 UTC
Dave Stark wrote:
haven't read the ice changes yet.

however based on the new mineral compositions (yay oreicide!)

the large grav site is STILL the most lucrative at current prices.
also, at current prices the large grav site is 24.4% more lucrative than scordite. (and that's before rorq bonuses)
ccp have saved null sec mining.


Grav sites are being removed. Hidden ore belts will become anomalies. It wasn't really indicated if the compositions would be identical, or if a whole new belts are being created.
Dave stark
#70 - 2013-04-26 19:28:36 UTC  |  Edited by: Dave Stark
Haulie Berry wrote:
Dave Stark wrote:
haven't read the ice changes yet.

however based on the new mineral compositions (yay oreicide!)

the large grav site is STILL the most lucrative at current prices.
also, at current prices the large grav site is 24.4% more lucrative than scordite. (and that's before rorq bonuses)
ccp have saved null sec mining.


Grav sites are being removed. Hidden ore belts will become anomalies. It wasn't really indicated if the compositions would be identical, or if a whole new belts are being created.


are they? still reading the blogs. damnit.

edit: no they aren't!

Dev Blog wrote:
We will also be making a significant change to the way hidden asteroid belts will be found by players. We are phasing out the Gravimetric signature category, and instead pilots will be able to find all Ore Sites using their ship’s built-in anomaly scanning equipment.

just making them easier to find. and better.
Haulie Berry
#71 - 2013-04-26 19:37:13 UTC  |  Edited by: Haulie Berry
Dave Stark wrote:
Haulie Berry wrote:
Dave Stark wrote:
haven't read the ice changes yet.

however based on the new mineral compositions (yay oreicide!)

the large grav site is STILL the most lucrative at current prices.
also, at current prices the large grav site is 24.4% more lucrative than scordite. (and that's before rorq bonuses)
ccp have saved null sec mining.


Grav sites are being removed. Hidden ore belts will become anomalies. It wasn't really indicated if the compositions would be identical, or if a whole new belts are being created.


are they? still reading the blogs. damnit.

edit: no they aren't!

Dev Blog wrote:
We will also be making a significant change to the way hidden asteroid belts will be found by players. We are phasing out the Gravimetric signature category, and instead pilots will be able to find all Ore Sites using their ship’s built-in anomaly scanning equipment.

just making them easier to find. and better.


Er... that's what I said! They're turning them into anoms. With all of the other rebalancing, though, I wouldn't be the least bit shocked if they tweak the comps. I'm sure they'll be better, regardless, than normal belts (else there isn't much point).

Bear in mind, though, that "easier to find" necessarily means more competition. Anyone who can find the scanner button will now be joining in.

It is a REALLY unattractive change for wormhole miners, though. Those guys are so hilariously ******. Before, you had to either pre-scan their sites, or get lucky and scan down them/their site while they weren't paying attention.

Now, you can wander right in on them without ever dropping cloak.
Krixtal Icefluxor
INLAND EMPIRE Galactic
#72 - 2013-04-26 19:40:41 UTC
Crap. My Ice Mining system in Ammatar is not on the list. It's going away. Tears, yes. Cry

"He has mounted his hind-legs, and blown crass vapidities through the bowel of his neck."  - Ambrose Bierce on Oscar Wilde's Lecture in San Francisco 1882
Dave stark
#73 - 2013-04-26 20:10:42 UTC
Haulie Berry wrote:
Dave Stark wrote:
Haulie Berry wrote:
Dave Stark wrote:
haven't read the ice changes yet.

however based on the new mineral compositions (yay oreicide!)

the large grav site is STILL the most lucrative at current prices.
also, at current prices the large grav site is 24.4% more lucrative than scordite. (and that's before rorq bonuses)
ccp have saved null sec mining.


Grav sites are being removed. Hidden ore belts will become anomalies. It wasn't really indicated if the compositions would be identical, or if a whole new belts are being created.


are they? still reading the blogs. damnit.

edit: no they aren't!

Dev Blog wrote:
We will also be making a significant change to the way hidden asteroid belts will be found by players. We are phasing out the Gravimetric signature category, and instead pilots will be able to find all Ore Sites using their ship’s built-in anomaly scanning equipment.

just making them easier to find. and better.


Er... that's what I said! They're turning them into anoms. With all of the other rebalancing, though, I wouldn't be the least bit shocked if they tweak the comps. I'm sure they'll be better, regardless, than normal belts (else there isn't much point).

Bear in mind, though, that "easier to find" necessarily means more competition. Anyone who can find the scanner button will now be joining in.

It is a REALLY unattractive change for wormhole miners, though. Those guys are so hilariously ******. Before, you had to either pre-scan their sites, or get lucky and scan down them/their site while they weren't paying attention.

Now, you can wander right in on them without ever dropping cloak.


sorry reading so many things and updating so many excel cells at once. need to slow down!

"easier to find" means easier to gank, and nothing more in null sec. any one in null sec who wanted to mine, was already mining. i was probing down grav sites with the bare minimum skills.

yeah wormhole players are getting slightly boned i guess, don't know what a wormhole grav site contains.
Dave stark
#74 - 2013-04-26 20:11:20 UTC
Krixtal Icefluxor wrote:
Crap. My Ice Mining system in Ammatar is not on the list. It's going away. Tears, yes. Cry


the real question is; where are there systems with multiple belts?

i've already spotted 2 caldari systems 2 jumps from each other with a combined 5 ice belts.
Elena Thiesant
The Scope
Gallente Federation
#75 - 2013-04-26 20:51:31 UTC
I know a couple in Gallente Space. Ala's one of them, also one in Everyshore iirc.
Dave stark
#76 - 2013-04-26 20:55:43 UTC
Elena Thiesant wrote:
I know a couple in Gallente Space. Ala's one of them, also one in Everyshore iirc.


take you about 5 seconds to find them thanks to goons giving every one garpa!
Huttan Funaila
Caldari Provisions
Caldari State
#77 - 2013-04-26 21:15:58 UTC
Elena Thiesant wrote:
My rough notes from the keynote:

Ice belts move into anomalies, will spawn in systems that previously had ice belts. Can be mined out, when they are they’ll respawn 4 hours later.

Unless they change the respawn mechanisms, the sites don't despawn while someone is in the site. So perhaps the next "ice interdiction" scheme will involve AFK cloaking on grid with the sites. They'll respawn next downtime, but this will delay repops in the more popular systems.

Either ice anomalies will need to last most of a day even with a plague of locusts mining the place, or ice anomalies will have to spawn in systems that don't currently have ice.

Until they get this rebalanced, I predict a lot of towers will go offline.
Elena Thiesant
The Scope
Gallente Federation
#78 - 2013-04-26 21:35:44 UTC
Dave Stark wrote:
Elena Thiesant wrote:
I know a couple in Gallente Space. Ala's one of them, also one in Everyshore iirc.


take you about 5 seconds to find them thanks to goons giving every one garpa!


I don't mine ice, so don't know all of them well, just the ones that I put buy orders up in/near.
Nex apparatu5
GoonWaffe
Goonswarm Federation
#79 - 2013-04-26 23:08:34 UTC
Huttan Funaila wrote:
Elena Thiesant wrote:
My rough notes from the keynote:

Ice belts move into anomalies, will spawn in systems that previously had ice belts. Can be mined out, when they are they’ll respawn 4 hours later.

Unless they change the respawn mechanisms, the sites don't despawn while someone is in the site. So perhaps the next "ice interdiction" scheme will involve AFK cloaking on grid with the sites. They'll respawn next downtime, but this will delay repops in the more popular systems.

Either ice anomalies will need to last most of a day even with a plague of locusts mining the place, or ice anomalies will have to spawn in systems that don't currently have ice.

Until they get this rebalanced, I predict a lot of towers will go offline.


Well, the ice belts will take about an hour to mine out, so they're probably using the incursion anom code, where people on grid don't prevent the anom from despawning.

Because if they don't, I'm sure as hell going to stop them from respawning.
Krixtal Icefluxor
INLAND EMPIRE Galactic
#80 - 2013-04-26 23:37:21 UTC
Nex apparatu5 wrote:
Huttan Funaila wrote:
Elena Thiesant wrote:
My rough notes from the keynote:

Ice belts move into anomalies, will spawn in systems that previously had ice belts. Can be mined out, when they are they’ll respawn 4 hours later.

Unless they change the respawn mechanisms, the sites don't despawn while someone is in the site. So perhaps the next "ice interdiction" scheme will involve AFK cloaking on grid with the sites. They'll respawn next downtime, but this will delay repops in the more popular systems.

Either ice anomalies will need to last most of a day even with a plague of locusts mining the place, or ice anomalies will have to spawn in systems that don't currently have ice.

Until they get this rebalanced, I predict a lot of towers will go offline.


Well, the ice belts will take about an hour to mine out, so they're probably using the incursion anom code, where people on grid don't prevent the anom from despawning.

Because if they don't, I'm sure as hell going to stop them from respawning.


I have a feeling that after the last chunk of ice is gone, the site evaporates, so good luck.

"He has mounted his hind-legs, and blown crass vapidities through the bowel of his neck."  - Ambrose Bierce on Oscar Wilde's Lecture in San Francisco 1882