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DUST 514 - [POLL] - Platform Decisions
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Mitauchi
Caldari Provisions
Caldari State
#21 - 2011-10-31 15:54:46 UTC
Quote:

You avoided his point by changing the scope of your own argument.
Getting a nice mouse on a console is a google away.



Just FYI you can use wireless keyboard on the PS3 natively (I use mine all the time) but each game determines the use of the peripheral within it.

Although I am sure there is a work around my understanding is mouse/keyboard will work for text chatting but has been disabled for actual combat within the deployment modes of DUST 514.
Jhagiti Tyran
Caldari Provisions
Caldari State
#22 - 2011-10-31 19:22:29 UTC  |  Edited by: Jhagiti Tyran
Sir Substance wrote:
Mirak Nijoba wrote:

You would like to see it on 360 as well as ps3 though, If i read that correctly.

You also have coped with the fact that they most likely wont do anything but a PS3 Release.

I don't own any modern game consoles. I can't stand the controller as an input system. *pats trusty R.A.T7*


The thread managed to reach post 12 before a "hurf blurf controller blurf hurf" post, that must be a record. Keyboard + mouse is better at two types of game, console controllers are better for everything else.
Sir Substance
Sebiestor Tribe
Minmatar Republic
#23 - 2011-11-01 05:50:35 UTC
Jhagiti Tyran wrote:
Sir Substance wrote:
Mirak Nijoba wrote:

You would like to see it on 360 as well as ps3 though, If i read that correctly.

You also have coped with the fact that they most likely wont do anything but a PS3 Release.

I don't own any modern game consoles. I can't stand the controller as an input system. *pats trusty R.A.T7*


The thread managed to reach post 12 before a "hurf blurf controller blurf hurf" post, that must be a record. Keyboard + mouse is better at two types of game, console controllers are better for everything else.


Its a shame that one of the two it is clearly better at:

a) makes up the majority of major AAA title releases on both consoles
b) is the genre of the primary topic of discussion in this thread

for the record, the only genre of game I consider controller to be better at is street fighter style fighting games.

There are a handful that are better with joystick then kb+m, but almost everything is better with kb+m then controller, mainly because controllers cramp your hands after a while, unless your hands are exactly the same size as those of the designer.

The beatings will continue until posting improves. -Magnus Cortex

Official Eve Online changelist: Togglable PvP. - Jordanna Bauer
Mirak Nijoba
Gamers Corner
#24 - 2011-11-01 06:15:59 UTC
Sir Substance wrote:
VKhaun Vex wrote:
Sir Substance wrote:
Mirak Nijoba wrote:
Ahh. Well I'm sure if you looked hard enough you could find a method of playing those console games with a Mouse and key board. ^_^


Show me a console that can let me customize the horizontal scroll wheel and sniper buttons on my mouse, and I'll show you an overly expensive PC that's been artificially limited in its capabilities by its operating system.



You avoided his point by changing the scope of your own argument. Getting a nice mouse on a console is a google away.


The scope hasn't changed at all. The question is "is it possible to get good input peripherals on a console". Exploring the nature of connectivity to the console is an integral part of that. You can't say "I can connect a ****** $8 microsoft mouse to my PS3, therefore it is as good as your computer at accepting input". The software that runs the PS3 is not designed to run a good quality mouse. Yes, it'll take the sensor input, but a good mousing experience consists of a lot more then that.

The drivers and software that make my mouse so nice by supporting its many specialized controls cannot be loaded onto a current console without firmware hacking it, and probably not even then unless you want to write your own drivers. If I have to firmware hack it, I'd justifiably rather use a PC. If consoles ever develop to the point where I can make my mouse work without needing to firmware hack it, then that console is really a PC that doesn't do everything a PC can.



To solve this problem you could talk with PS3 Devs or the Devs of your favorite mouse company and see what they can do.

The ps3 seems to be pretty open source on a lot of their ideals. meaning that you can freely browse the internet and install things onto the ps3. The only problem is someone has to develop the software to run the hardware. the PS3 is basically a computer fine tuned with graphics and memory to run the games chosen. The operating system and the bios commands are easy to change for individuals that know how. There for it is just a few googles away and maybe an e-mail or two before you could get a decent mouse set up for your ps3. That would be comparable to running the mouse on your PC . If not better due to the lack of unnecessary processes running
Sir Substance
Sebiestor Tribe
Minmatar Republic
#25 - 2011-11-01 06:54:31 UTC
But why should I expend the time and effort developing or asking for development on a partially open system, when there is a fully open system already in existence, with the software already developed?

The redundancy inherent in the current version of consoles especially is astounding.

The beatings will continue until posting improves. -Magnus Cortex

Official Eve Online changelist: Togglable PvP. - Jordanna Bauer
MotherMoon
Tribal Liberation Force
Minmatar Republic
#26 - 2011-11-01 07:50:17 UTC  |  Edited by: MotherMoon
PS3

Xbox refused to use MT, refused to allow for free to play, and also said CCP would have to charge for DLC, and could not release free expansions. **** that noise.

They also refused to let it link to the PC games servers.

http://dl.eve-files.com/media/1206/scimi.jpg
AlleyKat
The Unwanted.
#27 - 2011-11-01 08:28:44 UTC
PS 3 On launch, pc in time, which already exists.

Do you think they edited the teaser trailers on a ps3?

AK

This space for rent.
Jhagiti Tyran
Caldari Provisions
Caldari State
#28 - 2011-11-01 18:37:15 UTC  |  Edited by: Jhagiti Tyran
Sir Substance wrote:
Jhagiti Tyran wrote:
Sir Substance wrote:
Mirak Nijoba wrote:

You would like to see it on 360 as well as ps3 though, If i read that correctly.

You also have coped with the fact that they most likely wont do anything but a PS3 Release.

I don't own any modern game consoles. I can't stand the controller as an input system. *pats trusty R.A.T7*


The thread managed to reach post 12 before a "hurf blurf controller blurf hurf" post, that must be a record. Keyboard + mouse is better at two types of game, console controllers are better for everything else.


Its a shame that one of the two it is clearly better at:

a) makes up the majority of major AAA title releases on both consoles
b) is the genre of the primary topic of discussion in this thread

for the record, the only genre of game I consider controller to be better at is street fighter style fighting games.

There are a handful that are better with joystick then kb+m, but almost everything is better with kb+m then controller, mainly because controllers cramp your hands after a while, unless your hands are exactly the same size as those of the designer.


3rd person action games, football/American handegg, sports games in general, racing and driving games are all better with a control pad. The only things the PC do better with are RTS and FPS games, and even though FPS games are behind control wise on consoles they edge ahead game play wise because you don't have a fraction of the amount of cheating faggots.

So apart from two genres of game control wise, Console>PC. It doesn't really matter much anyway, you can buy control pads for PCs and keyboard and mouse for consoles. That reminds me, for some reason PC games seem to put more effort into supporting control pads than console games put into supporting keyboard and mouse.............


AlleyKat wrote:
PS 3 On launch, pc when CCP realise it hasn't sold as well as they hoped it would,

AK


Had to change your post a little bit.
David Grogan
University of Caille
Gallente Federation
#29 - 2011-11-01 20:23:46 UTC
Mirak Nijoba wrote:
Dust 514

CCP's Next Big Thing. They've put a lot of work into it so far and there comes a time when you've got to make a decision about where you want to take your Game.

So the Questions I've got to ask CCP is...

Have you Decided PS3 Only? --- [ Yes/No ] YES
Have you Considered PC/Mac/Xbox? --- [ Yes/No ] YES it was considered for XBOX but microsoft's xbox live policies were incompatible with cross platform and free expansion model CCP wants to use... PSN is compatible.
Would it be Practical to Build Dust for PC; or Mac; or XBOX? --- [ Yes/No | Yes/No | Yes/No ] porting is not a problem for game devs
Have you Taken a Poll of Your Players and Seen where they want to see Dust? --- [ Yes/No ] no

Now my Question / Poll for You Guys is..

Which Platforms Should Dust Be Available on?
[D514-P] <--- Insert That into your Poll for it to be easier to track down and collect the Poll Data. All imo

I think the Ps3 is a narrow market to try and hit, you may save money in production but lose money when the market flops on it.

Include the Ps3 Version but try and hit the 360 Version and PC/Mac Versions Respectively and you'll be able to get enough people able to buy it and play it. Because I Garuntee I'm not buying a Ps3 to play Dust. I'll just let the idea of playing it gather Dust for 514 Years... or when CCP Releases a PC/360 Version of it... Which Ever Comes first. I'm thinking against the latter.

Everytime you buy something that says "made in china" you are helping the rising unemployment in your own country unless you are from china, Buy locally produced goods and help create more jobs.
Kengutsi Akira
Doomheim
#30 - 2011-11-01 20:45:39 UTC  |  Edited by: Kengutsi Akira
Micro$oft refuses to let CCP use the microtransactions scheme for DUST (CCP says this in an article then says its because of software limitations - theyre a company first. Id bet the money angle had more to do with it).

PS will let them use MTs

Guess who they use...

Jhagiti Tyran wrote:

3rd person action games, football/American handegg, sports games in general, racing and driving games are all better with a control pad. The only things the PC do better with are RTS and FPS games, and even though FPS games are behind control wise on consoles they edge ahead game play wise because you don't have a fraction of the amount of cheating faggots.


not really, as Borderlands taught me...

"Is it fair that CCP can get away with..." :: checks ownership on the box ::

Yes
Sir Substance
Sebiestor Tribe
Minmatar Republic
#31 - 2011-11-01 22:18:15 UTC
Jhagiti Tyran wrote:

3rd person action games, football/American handegg, sports games in general, racing and driving games are all better with a control pad.

Had to change your post a little bit.


3rd person action games I do not concede, because they invariably require aiming and shooting components, see alpha protocol.

Sports games as a genre usually slip my mind, but I'll concede them as well. Racing games are best played with a wheel, not a controller.

In exchange, I rise you: MMO's (keyboard needed for ability macro), RPG's (Mouse easier for moving around in isometric, better for combat in first person and third person),

The beatings will continue until posting improves. -Magnus Cortex

Official Eve Online changelist: Togglable PvP. - Jordanna Bauer
Jhagiti Tyran
Caldari Provisions
Caldari State
#32 - 2011-11-01 22:43:59 UTC
Sir Substance wrote:
Jhagiti Tyran wrote:

3rd person action games, football/American handegg, sports games in general, racing and driving games are all better with a control pad.

Had to change your post a little bit.


3rd person action games I do not concede, because they invariably require aiming and shooting components, see alpha protocol.

Sports games as a genre usually slip my mind, but I'll concede them as well. Racing games are best played with a wheel, not a controller.

In exchange, I rise you: MMO's (keyboard needed for ability macro), RPG's (Mouse easier for moving around in isometric, better for combat in first person and third person),


Most 3rd person games are far better, games like Gears of War and ones that involve fighting as well as shooting. As for RPGs the first person ones like Oblivion and Skyrim work just as well and most RPGs are like Mass Effect 2 and these are basically 3rd person action games, you get the same level of aiming control in 3rd person games, if you cant well you suck and that's not the controllers fault. Analogue sticks and triggers also make for better movement because of the finer degree of control than WASD with a keyboard.

Whether a wheel is better is irrelevant to the discussion, the fact is that analogue sticks, and analogue triggers (for braking and accelerating) beats keyboard and mouse, period. Really if you think about a mouse in the hands of somebody competent isn't really that much better than a gamepad in the hands of someone competent. Factor in all the superior movement options of the gamepad and they begin to look better.

So the only thing a gamepad cant really do well are RTS games.
Sir Substance
Sebiestor Tribe
Minmatar Republic
#33 - 2011-11-02 00:03:22 UTC
Jhagiti Tyran wrote:

you get the same level of aiming control in 3rd person games, if you cant well you suck and that's not the controllers fault.
That's provably incorrect by the design of an analogue stick as compared to the design of a mouse, but since you just resorted to calling my skills into question in an attempt to taunt me, I'll accept your ceding this argument to me on the basis that you have run out of logical or technical arguments.

Big smile

The beatings will continue until posting improves. -Magnus Cortex

Official Eve Online changelist: Togglable PvP. - Jordanna Bauer
Jhagiti Tyran
Caldari Provisions
Caldari State
#34 - 2011-11-02 00:19:58 UTC
Sir Substance wrote:
Jhagiti Tyran wrote:

you get the same level of aiming control in 3rd person games, if you cant well you suck and that's not the controllers fault.
That's provably incorrect by the design of an analogue stick as compared to the design of a mouse, but since you just resorted to calling my skills into question in an attempt to taunt me, I'll accept your ceding this argument to me on the basis that you have run out of logical or technical arguments.

Big smile


3rd person games handle very different to FPS games, usually they are coverbased to begin with and the accuracy of weapons is usually limited. You can achieve the same level of accuracy with an analogue stick as you can with a mouse when the reticule is often very large compared to the tighter cross hairs in FPS games. So at best the accuracy is the same, at worst its slightly worse, add in all the gamepad benefits in movement and melee and control layout and gamepad>keyboard and mouse.

My point about competency also stands, I see no shortage of people getting headshots in 3rd person games like Gears 3.
Jhagiti Tyran
Caldari Provisions
Caldari State
#35 - 2011-11-02 00:20:41 UTC
Sir Substance wrote:
Jhagiti Tyran wrote:

you get the same level of aiming control in 3rd person games, if you cant well you suck and that's not the controllers fault.
That's provably incorrect by the design of an analogue stick as compared to the design of a mouse, but since you just resorted to calling my skills into question in an attempt to taunt me, I'll accept your ceding this argument to me on the basis that you have run out of logical or technical arguments.

Big smile


3rd person games handle very different to FPS games, usually they are coverbased to begin with and the accuracy of weapons is usually limited. You can achieve the same level of accuracy with an analogue stick as you can with a mouse when the reticule is often very large compared to the tighter cross hairs in FPS games. So at best the accuracy is the same, at worst its slightly worse, add in all the gamepad benefits in movement and melee and control layout and gamepad>keyboard and mouse.

My point about competency also stands, I see no shortage of people getting headshots in 3rd person games like Gears 3.
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