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CCP! Please clarify the future plans for WiS!

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Aidan Brooder
Dynasphere Ltd.
#621 - 2011-11-01 12:28:54 UTC  |  Edited by: Aidan Brooder
Ayumi Hinoki wrote:
Ladie Harlot wrote:
Stella SGP wrote:
Sadly many players don't see it that way and only wants CCP to focus on their narrow definition of 'fun'.

You sound genuinely surprised that people who play an internet spaceship game want internet spaceship content.


Is it included in the meaning of internet spaceship content trading, researching and manufacturing, mining, exploration, corporation management or planetary interaction? Because of comments like that, it seems that EVE is only made of and for fighter players.

And you guys don't want to realize that combat is just another little field in this game, popularized, but not the only and the main way to play.

If you want pew-pew content, go to Black Prophecy. This is an Sci-Fi sandbox, which it's totally different.


I haven't played BP in a while, but last time I was there, people were asking for avatars to be able to walk around in the stations. OMG! Our dedicated brethren here would walk right into the next game where people want "space barbies".

I'm tired of repeating arguments for the eventual development of WiS. I have already written lengthy posts. In the end it is not only about WiS.

I also see is that manufacturing, exploration, mining, corp management and planetary interaction will not get much love in the future.

It was CCPs plan to make EVE a total immersion space simulation sandbox, but instead of working on different aspects of the game, they focus on PVP in 0-Sec.

I'm happy that EVE is the way it is and that you are never secure and losses feel real. But having disaster around every corner doesn't mean I need CCP to push me around that corner.

Now when I read neutral forums, the general opinion on EVE by non-EVE-players often is: You get ganked every time you leave a station. You get killed everywhere, you get scammed, wardecced, cheated, etc. pp.. It is no fun.
Obviously I think the game IS fun, but more focus on creative instead of destructive parts of the game wouldn't hurt a bit.

Blog: http://aidanbrooder.wordpress.com My EVE Playlist on YouTube: http://www.youtube.com/playlist?list=PLSNuHY7z8n1q1BdLvW2verIfH8vvWtz_x
Azahni Vah'nos
Vah'nos Family
#622 - 2011-11-01 13:47:52 UTC
Aidan Brooder wrote:
Ayumi Hinoki wrote:
Ladie Harlot wrote:
Stella SGP wrote:
Sadly many players don't see it that way and only wants CCP to focus on their narrow definition of 'fun'.

You sound genuinely surprised that people who play an internet spaceship game want internet spaceship content.


Is it included in the meaning of internet spaceship content trading, researching and manufacturing, mining, exploration, corporation management or planetary interaction? Because of comments like that, it seems that EVE is only made of and for fighter players.

And you guys don't want to realize that combat is just another little field in this game, popularized, but not the only and the main way to play.

If you want pew-pew content, go to Black Prophecy. This is an Sci-Fi sandbox, which it's totally different.


I haven't played BP in a while, but last time I was there, people were asking for avatars to be able to walk around in the stations. OMG! Our dedicated brethren here would walk right into the next game where people want "space barbies".

I'm tired of repeating arguments for the eventual development of WiS. I have already written lengthy posts. In the end it is not only about WiS.

I also see is that manufacturing, exploration, mining, corp management and planetary interaction will not get much love in the future.

It was CCPs plan to make EVE a total immersion space simulation sandbox, but instead of working on different aspects of the game, they focus on PVP in 0-Sec.

I'm happy that EVE is the way it is and that you are never secure and losses feel real. But having disaster around every corner doesn't mean I need CCP to push me around that corner.

Now when I read neutral forums, the general opinion on EVE by non-EVE-players often is: You get ganked every time you leave a station. You get killed everywhere, you get scammed, wardecced, cheated, etc. pp.. It is no fun.
Obviously I think the game IS fun, but more focus on creative instead of destructive parts of the game wouldn't hurt a bit.

The problem is that CCP lost their way with WiS, instead of it being a full extension to the sandbox with engaging gamplay elements, they instead added the NEX store which adds nothing to the sanbox. With where WiS was headed it would have been little more than a cash shop showcase with nothing to keep people interested long term.

CCP destroyed the concept of Ambulation chasing microtransactions, and adding them on top of PLEX I might add.

To CCP who says you can't have capsuleers killing eachother ... I agree, but here's one example that could have been included that would add engaging sandbox gamplay:

- With Capsuleers not able to fight why couldn't I have a 'cage fighter' that could be produced via a new set of skillbooks, like producing anything else in EVE it would take time to produce (train) said 'cage fighter'.
- Now here's the kicker, that 'cage fighter' can now be entered into 'events' in stations where people are able to bet on the outcome and the player who owns the 'cage fighter' actually controls them.
- So we have players basically PvP'ing in stations, but it doesn't affect capsuleers.
- The 'cage fighter' could be human or machine and like a ship would have pieces/fittings added to it.
- The 'cage fighters' could also have a rating system where the more fights they win the higher their value with increased stats, etc.
- The 'cage fighters' can be traded just like other commodities in EVE.
- Also when events take place in different stations players have to ship their 'cage fighter' to those events, therefore taking the risk of losing them if attacked.
- And just like losing your ship in PvP the 'cage fighter' would be destroyed if the player lost the match.

Hell if it was possible the cage fights in say Jita could be telecast on peoples screens in their CQ's (if technically possible) and have a EVE wide betting system on them.

This would actually be something that I'm sure would interest more people than standing at a bar typing /emote for 2 hours.

CCP have to go back to the drawing board and determine how to make WiS fun and interesting, anything else will be a let down. And for goodness sake ditch the NEX Store and add those elements back into the players hands via manufacturing, LP rewards, etc where they actually add some value to the sandbox.

Nex (Cash Shop) / Aurum - removing sand from the sandbox since Incarna. Currently the only use for aurum is to buy virtual items in the in-game store, but Cockerill expects to expand its uses in the future.

Aidan Brooder
Dynasphere Ltd.
#623 - 2011-11-01 15:15:53 UTC
I like the idea of a cage fight game and the concept you thought of. That is exactly the stuff I am looking for.
Even better: Let them introduce Mind Clash as playable content!

I have said that before, the rollout CCP did for Incarna was horrible. While I understand they needed to test it - both for WOD and for EVE Incarna - they should have labelled the summer expansion exactly that: A test! And then build on it. People would have been more understanding. And they should never have introduced the Nex store. It should be burned. They could make that a player event, I think most of New Eden would join!

I want the true WiS one day. They can go small steps, as they will have to, anyway.

Blog: http://aidanbrooder.wordpress.com My EVE Playlist on YouTube: http://www.youtube.com/playlist?list=PLSNuHY7z8n1q1BdLvW2verIfH8vvWtz_x
Issler Dainze
Tadakastu-Obata Corporation
The Honda Accord
#624 - 2011-11-01 20:46:46 UTC
Ladie Harlot wrote:
Issler Dainze wrote:
Hybrid fixes, super cap nerfs etc are all things that should have been in patches a year ago.

And they weren't because CCP was so distracted. They learned their lesson and are refocusing their attention on Eve but you are trying to stop them.


Please quote where I have said CCP should stop FiS development. Until you can please stay away from the forums as you have failed the Turing test.

Issler
Issler Dainze
Tadakastu-Obata Corporation
The Honda Accord
#625 - 2011-11-01 20:55:14 UTC
ConranAntoni wrote:
Issler Dainze wrote:
ConranAntoni wrote:
This thread is literally terrible. If you want to prioritise walking in stations over damn actual content, go play Hello Kitty Dungeon Adventure.


How exactly does creating a bar where your avatar can sit in type in local about shitfit canes count as actual content? Seriously, this thread is deluded. Sure, once the major **** is done, let them throw some resources at it, might even turn out entertaining but EvE isn't about your peoples deluded "lets all sit in a station with no effectual interaction". It's about combat, wether actual ship pvp or as some put it "market" pvp. It's a sandbox for action, not a sandbox for freaking idiots trying to cyber in a bar with a bunch of other randomly designed and grotesque looking characters.


Wow, another late to the game troll trying to spin what I was asking for and claiming that the only thing that can be rewarding for someone to do is doing just what he finds fun.

Sir, your argument has me nearly convinced..... but not about what you set out to say..... It does make me hope shooting folks in the face is added to WiS soon if it comes back.

Issler


Thing is, i'm not trolling. I just don't count waiting a year or two for WiS that won't offer any real content as worthwhile over content which the game was primarily designed for; space combat. Repurposing assets for uninteresting station adventures where nothing makes any kind of difference in the larger scheme of things over a new ship type or FiS content which in turn could change things is rather idiotic. But of course, keep yelling for it, i'm sure when you can walk around in a lovely NeX store jacket and click sit or stand on a chair and look at everyone else doing the same will add a ton of atmosphere.



Please learn the true stated intent of Eve as a game from CCP and also read my posts before commenting in a thread you clearly haven't bothered to read.

CCP has clearly said Eve is intended to be a SciFi simulator, not just a space combat game. Look around at everything in Eve that isn't space combat.

Also I have made it clear I am not a fan of the NeX store and never intend to purchase a single clothing item from NeX. Becauce YOUR limited mind can't see some activity as fun doesn't mean everyone agrees. If you had bothered to read this thread completely and think before spewing you'd know many folk want some form of WiS.

So I'm sorry for you that if someday CCP ever does return to their initial vision of Eve there will be work on content you don't like. My advice to you is to immediately unsub and go play Jump Gate or Vendatta Online, both are space combat games that will likely never be anything else.

Issler
Issler Dainze
Tadakastu-Obata Corporation
The Honda Accord
#626 - 2011-11-01 20:56:11 UTC
Alpheias wrote:
Issler Dainze wrote:


It does make me hope shooting folks in the face is added to WiS soon if it comes back.



Know what? I'd support that. I'd support anything that would let me shoot YOU in the face.



Cool!

I'll count you as pro WiS then!

Issler
Che Biko
Alexylva Paradox
#627 - 2011-11-01 21:08:24 UTC
@ Azahni Vah'nos: Nice job with that detailed breakdown, that must have been quite the job. I know 'cause I started to do the same, but stopped after about 1/3 of the thread, and I only had 2 categories.
Flamespar wrote:
Given the huge response that this thread has gathered. Perhaps we should ask the CSM to represent our views to CCP.
At the very least it would be nice for CCP to clarify what their plans for Incarna are given the uncertainty created by Hilmar's interview.

I've asked the CSM to request a devblog about Incarna's future, and it looks like they won't even do that. I derive from the words of the chairman himself on that thread that he seems to not be interested in representing any "constituency" but his own.

Coordination Channel for Consolidated Space Rescue Cooperation

Open Letter to the Aidonis Foundation Directorate
Issler Dainze
Tadakastu-Obata Corporation
The Honda Accord
#628 - 2011-11-01 21:10:00 UTC
Che Biko wrote:
@ Azahni Vah'nos: Nice job with that detailed breakdown, that must have been quite the job. I know 'cause I started to do the same, but stopped after about 1/3 of the thread, and I only had 2 categories.
Flamespar wrote:
Given the huge response that this thread has gathered. Perhaps we should ask the CSM to represent our views to CCP.
At the very least it would be nice for CCP to clarify what their plans for Incarna are given the uncertainty created by Hilmar's interview.

I've asked the CSM to request a devblog about Incarna's future, and it looks like they won't even do that. I derive from the words of the chairman himself on that thread that he seems to not be interested in representing any "constituency" but his own.


A sad commentary on CSM 6.

Issler
Jita Alt666
#629 - 2011-11-01 21:56:37 UTC
Issler Dainze wrote:
Che Biko wrote:
@ Azahni Vah'nos: Nice job with that detailed breakdown, that must have been quite the job. I know 'cause I started to do the same, but stopped after about 1/3 of the thread, and I only had 2 categories.
Flamespar wrote:
Given the huge response that this thread has gathered. Perhaps we should ask the CSM to represent our views to CCP.
At the very least it would be nice for CCP to clarify what their plans for Incarna are given the uncertainty created by Hilmar's interview.

I've asked the CSM to request a devblog about Incarna's future, and it looks like they won't even do that. I derive from the words of the chairman himself on that thread that he seems to not be interested in representing any "constituency" but his own.


A sad commentary on CSM 6.

Issler


Put yourself forward for CSM 7.
Issler Dainze
Tadakastu-Obata Corporation
The Honda Accord
#630 - 2011-11-01 23:08:38 UTC
Jita Alt666 wrote:
Issler Dainze wrote:
Che Biko wrote:
@ Azahni Vah'nos: Nice job with that detailed breakdown, that must have been quite the job. I know 'cause I started to do the same, but stopped after about 1/3 of the thread, and I only had 2 categories.
Flamespar wrote:
Given the huge response that this thread has gathered. Perhaps we should ask the CSM to represent our views to CCP.
At the very least it would be nice for CCP to clarify what their plans for Incarna are given the uncertainty created by Hilmar's interview.

I've asked the CSM to request a devblog about Incarna's future, and it looks like they won't even do that. I derive from the words of the chairman himself on that thread that he seems to not be interested in representing any "constituency" but his own.


A sad commentary on CSM 6.

Issler


Put yourself forward for CSM 7.


I've run almost every year and I have thought about it. I will if I decide I can make the time commitment. If I do I have no expectations of doing any better than I have in the last two elections. I think the majority of who would be likely to vote for someone like me aren't on the forums and not interested in supporting the CSM so I'm not sure how to reach and motivate them to become involved,

Or its entirely possible I just wouldn't have that many supporters! (I'm very willing to acknowledge that possibility! Lol)

Issler
Jhagiti Tyran
Caldari Provisions
Caldari State
#631 - 2011-11-01 23:11:31 UTC
Is this still the thread where Issler is posting over and over with the 3 other people that want Incarna being trolled by everyone else and then Issler claims it shows how popular it is?
Ranka Mei
TANoshii Incorporated
#632 - 2011-11-01 23:16:12 UTC
The often childish resistence against WiS makes me think of the history of motion pictures. Right after the 'silent era' (1894-1929) silent films were replaced by 'talking pictures' in the late 1920s. Many folks -- with a very limited imagination, only accepting of what they had -- couldn't handle the extra dimension added, and started ridiculing 'talkies,' typically by making mock-movies with funnily-montaged chirping sounds (the voice audio tracks of talking movies were still of very low quality at the time; hence the chirping), arguing 'voice' added no real content, and only brought down the aesthetic quality of cinema. Their immense shortsightedness, seen from today, speaks for itself.

My point? Don't be that stupid person ridiculing the extra dimension WiS offers. I know you love your FiS, and that you think that saying 'space barbie' a lot makes you look cool, and that you think you represent the 'real' EVE-er. Well, those who ridiculed 'talkies' went the way of the dinosaur, and now look dumb beyond measure. Instead, try and wrap your brain around the notion that WiS could add an entire new immersive dimension to EVE, akin to what adding voice did for movies; and that history will make it so that you'll inevitably be on the losing side of this argument, decisively.

Sure, currently WiS is nothing more than a (very sophisticated) avatar in a slick looking 3D realm. But as a favorite space Captain of mine once said, "Try and see past what she is, and onto what she can be."

-- "All your monies AUR belong to us!" -- CCP
Jita Alt666
#633 - 2011-11-01 23:29:59 UTC
Ranka Mei wrote:

Sure, currently WiS is nothing more than a (very sophisticated) avatar in a slick looking 3D realm. But as a favorite space Captain of mine once said, "Try and see past what she is, and onto what she can be."


Was that before he tagged along with an under performing police officer and used his writing experience and contacts help solve crimes?
mkint
#634 - 2011-11-01 23:33:41 UTC
Ranka Mei wrote:
The often childish resistence against WiS makes me think of the history of motion pictures. Right after the 'silent era' (1894-1929) silent films were replaced by 'talking pictures' in the late 1920s. Many folks -- with a very limited imagination, only accepting of what they had -- couldn't handle the extra dimension added, and started ridiculing 'talkies,' typically by making mock-movies with funnily-montaged chirping sounds (the voice audio tracks of talking movies were still of very low quality at the time; hence the chirping), arguing 'voice' added no real content, and only brought down the aesthetic quality of cinema. Their immense shortsightedness, seen from today, speaks for itself.

My point? Don't be that stupid person ridiculing the extra dimension WiS offers. I know you love your FiS, and that you think that saying 'space barbie' a lot makes you look cool, and that you think you represent the 'real' EVE-er. Well, those who ridiculed 'talkies' went the way of the dinosaur, and now look dumb beyond measure. Instead, try and wrap your brain around the notion that WiS could add an entire new immersive dimension to EVE, akin to what adding voice did for movies; and that history will make it so that you'll inevitably be on the losing side of this argument, decisively.

Sure, currently WiS is nothing more than a (very sophisticated) avatar in a slick looking 3D realm. But as a favorite space Captain of mine once said, "Try and see past what she is, and onto what she can be."

HA! I'm not 100% convinced audio necessarily adds anything to movies except to make the worthless ones sell more.

And I'm fairly certain it can be pretty reliably documented that WiS has thus far hurt EVE more than help it.

Maxim 6. If violence wasn’t your last resort, you failed to resort to enough of it.
Issler Dainze
Tadakastu-Obata Corporation
The Honda Accord
#635 - 2011-11-01 23:39:24 UTC
mkint wrote:
Ranka Mei wrote:
The often childish resistence against WiS makes me think of the history of motion pictures. Right after the 'silent era' (1894-1929) silent films were replaced by 'talking pictures' in the late 1920s. Many folks -- with a very limited imagination, only accepting of what they had -- couldn't handle the extra dimension added, and started ridiculing 'talkies,' typically by making mock-movies with funnily-montaged chirping sounds (the voice audio tracks of talking movies were still of very low quality at the time; hence the chirping), arguing 'voice' added no real content, and only brought down the aesthetic quality of cinema. Their immense shortsightedness, seen from today, speaks for itself.

My point? Don't be that stupid person ridiculing the extra dimension WiS offers. I know you love your FiS, and that you think that saying 'space barbie' a lot makes you look cool, and that you think you represent the 'real' EVE-er. Well, those who ridiculed 'talkies' went the way of the dinosaur, and now look dumb beyond measure. Instead, try and wrap your brain around the notion that WiS could add an entire new immersive dimension to EVE, akin to what adding voice did for movies; and that history will make it so that you'll inevitably be on the losing side of this argument, decisively.

Sure, currently WiS is nothing more than a (very sophisticated) avatar in a slick looking 3D realm. But as a favorite space Captain of mine once said, "Try and see past what she is, and onto what she can be."

HA! I'm not 100% convinced audio necessarily adds anything to movies except to make the worthless ones sell more.

And I'm fairly certain it can be pretty reliably documented that WiS has thus far hurt EVE more than help it.


Your comment on the value of movie soundtracks shows how little you know. Watch "Wrath of Khan" with the sound turned off in a room with 20 other folks and see how many didn' like it as much. Soundtracks make a huge contribution to the overal film experience. Hollywood (and the most sucessful gaming companies) learned that a long time back.

And I can't wait for yout documented case that proves the WiS damage to Eve.

Issler
Issler Dainze
Tadakastu-Obata Corporation
The Honda Accord
#636 - 2011-11-01 23:40:30 UTC
Jhagiti Tyran wrote:
Is this still the thread where Issler is posting over and over with the 3 other people that want Incarna being trolled by everyone else and then Issler claims it shows how popular it is?


No, that was a completely different thread, go see if you can find that one and post there.

Issler
Kengutsi Akira
Doomheim
#637 - 2011-11-02 00:27:29 UTC
Zleon Leigh wrote:
@OP No, never wanted WiS. Still don't.

Just in case you were counting votes


The OP isnt counting votes, just likes (I gave you one btw)

"Is it fair that CCP can get away with..." :: checks ownership on the box ::

Yes
Issler Dainze
Tadakastu-Obata Corporation
The Honda Accord
#638 - 2011-11-02 00:31:56 UTC
Kengutsi Akira wrote:
Zleon Leigh wrote:
@OP No, never wanted WiS. Still don't.

Just in case you were counting votes


The OP isnt counting votes, just likes (I gave you one btw)


Not really setting out to count anything. Just to prove there is support for CCP to continue with some sort of WiS work in the background while working on FiS.

Seemed have accomplished that quite nicely if I do say so myself! Big smile

Issler
Metis Laxon
Imperial Shipment
Amarr Empire
#639 - 2011-11-02 00:32:55 UTC
I wish that it will be revisited once again. I have written many an article on why it is a good thing. It was just the wrong time and the wrong approach to putting it out to the players. Nothing more nothing less.
Lateris
#640 - 2011-11-02 00:34:14 UTC
Ranka Mei wrote:
The often childish resistence against WiS makes me think of the history of motion pictures. Right after the 'silent era' (1894-1929) silent films were replaced by 'talking pictures' in the late 1920s. Many folks -- with a very limited imagination, only accepting of what they had -- couldn't handle the extra dimension added, and started ridiculing 'talkies,' typically by making mock-movies with funnily-montaged chirping sounds (the voice audio tracks of talking movies were still of very low quality at the time; hence the chirping), arguing 'voice' added no real content, and only brought down the aesthetic quality of cinema. Their immense shortsightedness, seen from today, speaks for itself.

My point? Don't be that stupid person ridiculing the extra dimension WiS offers. I know you love your FiS, and that you think that saying 'space barbie' a lot makes you look cool, and that you think you represent the 'real' EVE-er. Well, those who ridiculed 'talkies' went the way of the dinosaur, and now look dumb beyond measure. Instead, try and wrap your brain around the notion that WiS could add an entire new immersive dimension to EVE, akin to what adding voice did for movies; and that history will make it so that you'll inevitably be on the losing side of this argument, decisively.

Sure, currently WiS is nothing more than a (very sophisticated) avatar in a slick looking 3D realm. But as a favorite space Captain of mine once said, "Try and see past what she is, and onto what she can be."


I couldn't agree more. Don't kill creativity. And we all agree the micro transactions are rubbish.

0/