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You know how some people like to claim most PVP happens in hisec?
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Nex apparatu5
GoonWaffe
Goonswarm Federation
#1 - 2013-04-25 18:35:41 UTC
http://i.imgur.com/WzXjyuN.jpg

Whoops, there goes that theory. Turns out if you remove losses to rats, hisec comes in third.
Daimon Kaiera
Science and Trade Institute
Caldari State
#2 - 2013-04-25 18:38:11 UTC
Oh god I wish I was watching the stream.

.... . .-.. .--. / .. / .... .- ...- . / ..-. .- .-.. .-.. . -. / .- -. -.. / .. / -.-. .- -. -. --- - / --. . - / ..- .--. / ... - --- .--. - .... .. ... / ... .. --. -. .- - ..- .-. . / .. -.. . .- / .. ... / -. --- - / ... - --- .-.. . -. / ... - --- .--.
Bizzaro Stormy MurphDog
B.L.U.E L.A.S.E.R.
#3 - 2013-04-25 18:46:24 UTC
Nex apparatu5 wrote:
http://i.imgur.com/WzXjyuN.jpg

Whoops, there goes that theory. Turns out if you remove losses to rats, hisec comes in third.


You just refuted an argument that I've never heard anyone make.

So hey . . . well played?

I am not an alt of Chribba.
Tubrug1
School of Applied Knowledge
Caldari State
#4 - 2013-04-25 18:49:41 UTC
" You know how some people like to claim most PVP happens in hisec"

OP, let me fix that title for you:

"You know how I like to claim most PVP happens in hisec"

Writer of The Eve Onion

I have a Twitter
silens vesica
Corsair Cartel
#5 - 2013-04-25 18:50:08 UTC
Nex apparatu5 wrote:
http://i.imgur.com/WzXjyuN.jpg

Whoops, there goes that theory. Turns out if you remove losses to rats, hisec comes in third.

That's value, not numbers of hulls.

But it's still probably a correct call.

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Dave Stark
#6 - 2013-04-25 19:00:39 UTC
silens vesica wrote:
Nex apparatu5 wrote:
http://i.imgur.com/WzXjyuN.jpg

Whoops, there goes that theory. Turns out if you remove losses to rats, hisec comes in third.

That's value, not numbers of hulls.

But it's still probably a correct call.


considering it's in terms of isk, wormholes being so low is reasonably surprising since they tend to fly around in reasonably blingy ships in comparison to other areas of the game.

although number of hulls would be interesting.
Feyd Rautha Harkonnen
Doomheim
#7 - 2013-04-25 19:02:34 UTC
Hisec wardec pvp, best pvp

Would you like to know more?
James Amril-Kesh
Viziam
Amarr Empire
#8 - 2013-04-25 19:15:49 UTC  |  Edited by: James Amril-Kesh
I'd like to see that graph normalized per capita.
If that were done I'd expect highsec would be lower than WH space, and null/low should be roughly even.

Enjoying the rain today? ;)
Georgina Parmala
Science and Trade Institute
Caldari State
#9 - 2013-04-25 19:16:07 UTC
Bizzaro Stormy MurphDog wrote:
Nex apparatu5 wrote:
http://i.imgur.com/WzXjyuN.jpg

Whoops, there goes that theory. Turns out if you remove losses to rats, hisec comes in third.


You just refuted an argument that I've never heard anyone make.

So hey . . . well played?

You apparently missed a number of threadnaughts concerning Null industry capacity. Where there were individuals making such claims, defending High Sec's need for superior industrial capacity.

Of course, ISK value is not an accurate metric to show this, since that's not exactly related to production slots.

Science and Trade Institute [STI] is an NPC entity and as such my views do not represent those of the entity or any of its members

https://forums.eveonline.com/default.aspx?g=posts&t=276984&p=38
James Amril-Kesh
Viziam
Amarr Empire
#10 - 2013-04-25 19:18:06 UTC
Dave Stark wrote:
considering it's in terms of isk, wormholes being so low is reasonably surprising since they tend to fly around in reasonably blingy ships in comparison to other areas of the game.

Hull cost only, the graph doesn't incorporate mods.
If it did then yes, wh space would be higher.

Enjoying the rain today? ;)
Georgina Parmala
Science and Trade Institute
Caldari State
#11 - 2013-04-25 19:19:40 UTC
Feyd Rautha Harkonnen wrote:
Hisec wardec pvp, best pvp

Who said high sec PvP required a wardec?

Science and Trade Institute [STI] is an NPC entity and as such my views do not represent those of the entity or any of its members

https://forums.eveonline.com/default.aspx?g=posts&t=276984&p=38
Dave Stark
#12 - 2013-04-25 19:21:16 UTC
James Amril-Kesh wrote:
Dave Stark wrote:
considering it's in terms of isk, wormholes being so low is reasonably surprising since they tend to fly around in reasonably blingy ships in comparison to other areas of the game.

Hull cost only, the graph doesn't incorporate mods.
If it did then yes, wh space would be higher.


if it's just hull cost then this graph is almost totally meaningless.

no **** null is at the top since they have capitals etc where as high sec hull costs seldom exceed what, 200m? with the exception of orcas/freighters.
James Amril-Kesh
Viziam
Amarr Empire
#13 - 2013-04-25 19:23:53 UTC  |  Edited by: James Amril-Kesh
Yeah, this graph isn't exactly good.

It doesn't take into account population densities.
It doesn't take into account expenses of the total ship+fit.
It doesn't take into account the amounts of ships lost, merely the costs.

Actually to be honest this needs at least two graphs, one of ship+fit cost per capita lost to PVP per week, and one of total ship hulls per capita lost to PVP per week, not counting pods.

Enjoying the rain today? ;)
Captain Tardbar
Deep Core Mining Inc.
Caldari State
#14 - 2013-04-25 19:25:13 UTC  |  Edited by: Captain Tardbar
Georgina Parmala wrote:
You apparently missed a number of threadnaughts concerning Null industry capacity. Where there were individuals making such claims, defending High Sec's need for superior industrial capacity.

Of course, ISK value is not an accurate metric to show this, since that's not exactly related to production slots.


I've never seen such arguments despite reading over a few threadnaughts.

What I did see is that the complaint was that Nullsec has to rely on hi-sec for its manufacturing capabilities as Nullsec could never possibly supply itself with current manufacturing capability.

Overall, I would suspect hi-sec has a much higher total numbers of ships lost, but the ships lost are of much lesser value as no one is strutting around in Titans, dreadnaughts, and carriers whereas Nullsec has ships of much higher value.

Seeing that Nullsec can produce such goods, maybe its not as bad off as people make it out to be.

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James Amril-Kesh
Viziam
Amarr Empire
#15 - 2013-04-25 19:28:00 UTC  |  Edited by: James Amril-Kesh
Captain Tardbar wrote:
Seeing that Nullsec can produce such goods, maybe its not as bad off as people make it out to be.

What makes you think nullsec is producing these goods? You do realize that the vast majority of modules, ammunition, and ships are imported from highsec, right?

In addition, what makes you think there are more ships lost to pvp in highsec than in null?

Enjoying the rain today? ;)
Makoto Priano
Kirkinen-Arataka Transhuman Zenith Consulting Ltd.
Arataka Research Consortium
#16 - 2013-04-25 19:32:56 UTC
Yeah. What's that line? Lies, damn lies, and statistics?

We'd need to see this information in a lot of different ways to get a proper sense of it: average hull and module value per kill, number of kills, and so on. This is a good starting point, but normalization for value would help. My guess is that in WH, heavy use of BCs, T2/T3 cruisers and so on depresses the presented value, while module value is high. In null, capital losses elevate this, and module value may vary from utilitarian to shiny. Low-sec is probably more of a ghetto, really -- whatever passes through can get snagged, and FW tends to favor lighter ships.

Still, I'd love to see break-downs per region with additional information. Specifically, what proportion of HS kills are during wars, and what proportion are indy/freighter ganks?

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Dave Stark
#17 - 2013-04-25 19:33:27 UTC
James Amril-Kesh wrote:
In addition, what makes you think there are more ships lost to pvp in highsec than in null?


at a guess i'm going to say things like RvB systematically throwing away multitudes of cheap disposable ships, where as null leans towards t2 ships, capital ships, and such like.

*shrug* i can see where he's coming from but there isn't exactly any evidence to support it.
Georgina Parmala
Science and Trade Institute
Caldari State
#18 - 2013-04-25 19:38:44 UTC
Captain Tardbar wrote:
Georgina Parmala wrote:
You apparently missed a number of threadnaughts concerning Null industry capacity. Where there were individuals making such claims, defending High Sec's need for superior industrial capacity.

Of course, ISK value is not an accurate metric to show this, since that's not exactly related to production slots.


I've never seen such arguments despite reading over a few threadnaughts.

What I did see is that the complaint was that Nullsec has to rely on hi-sec for its manufacturing capabilities as Nullsec could never possibly supply itself with current manufacturing capability.

Overall, I would suspect hi-sec has a much higher total numbers of ships lost, but the ships lost are of much lesser value as no one is strutting around in Titans, dreadnaughts, and carriers whereas Nullsec has ships of much higher value.

Seeing that Nullsec can produce such goods, maybe its not as bad off as people make it out to be.

There were a few people trying to say "Hit F10 and look at pilots in space, null is dead everyone is in high, so high needs the production capacity".

While null certainly has the caps, I would presume they are not lost all that often relative to roaming fleets of smaller ships. High also has similarly infrequent losses of Vindicators and Machs and such driving up their value. Finally, ship hulls are not the only concern when it comes to slots. You also have to produce modules, rigs and ammo.

And by "Seeing that Nullsec can produce such goods" you mean Null has enough jump freighter pilots flying to Jita and back. One of the main arguments presented was that Null does not even have the production capacity to make its own ammo.

Science and Trade Institute [STI] is an NPC entity and as such my views do not represent those of the entity or any of its members

https://forums.eveonline.com/default.aspx?g=posts&t=276984&p=38
Captain Tardbar
Deep Core Mining Inc.
Caldari State
#19 - 2013-04-25 19:39:24 UTC  |  Edited by: Captain Tardbar
James Amril-Kesh wrote:
Captain Tardbar wrote:
Seeing that Nullsec can produce such goods, maybe its not as bad off as people make it out to be.

What makes you think nullsec is producing these goods? You do realize that the vast majority of modules, ammunition, and ships are imported from highsec, right?

In addition, what makes you think there are more ships lost to pvp in highsec than in null?


I mean the carriers, dreadnaughts, and titans which cannot be made in high sec.

The graphs don't tell use values versus hi and null in terms of ammo and modules.

I am assuming the high values for nullsec are because of these high value ships being lost and has nothing to do with ammunition and modules.

If they want to show graphs on ammunition spent I suppose that could determine the other argument.

My main guess for PVP ships lost in hi-sec is from the Red versus Blue engagements. Those alone probaly have pretty high numbers, but I suppose I have no hard proof to show you other than the massive ship losses I see on the map every now and then. (Oh wow Dave Stark predicted I would say this but I suppose I clarified that I have no proof to show this).

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Unsuccessful At Everything
The Troll Bridge
#20 - 2013-04-25 19:41:01 UTC
Tis only ship value in ISK shown on that graph.

Just means that most highseccers run around and pew in the Eve equivalent of Yugos while the nullsec crowd goes and pews with their Lamborghinis and Bugattis.

Also, that graph would look different if lets say...capitals were allowed in highsec. 1 titan kill is the equivalent of how many millions of rifter kills?

Actual hulls destroyed in numbers vs ISK would have been the goto graph.

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