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Jump clone timer
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Beaver Retriever
Reality Sequence
#1 - 2013-04-06 12:25:20 UTC
Reduce the base jump clone timer to 12 hours. Introduce a new skill that then reduces it by 10% per level.

I swear to ******* god, what is the point of this thing, except to grief people? I thought you guys liked high PCUs, why are you making me not log in for 24 hours after I've used my jump clone for what I need it for?
Nagnor
The Happy Shooters
#2 - 2013-04-06 13:37:59 UTC
Why reduce it to 12 hours (-50% max) and not 3 hours or 5 minutes?

Answering that depends on what jump clones are used for; for traversing large distances very quickly or swapping sets of implants for other sets?
Consider a player jumping into a clone without implants, doing PvP or other potentially riskfull things for x hours and before logging off jumps into a clone with all +5 implants to maximize skill training. Desired game play? Don't think so
Praclaroush
Evedustry Inc.
#3 - 2013-04-25 11:30:58 UTC
i do agree with a reduction on jump clone timers, although it may increase an amount of griefing but then again it would increase the "pvp" mechanics of the game and also allow pilot to use multiple clones throughout the day to do multiple things and at the end of it change clones to maximize their skill training instead of losing valuable hours on LONG training ques.
Drake Doe
88Th Tax Haven
#4 - 2013-04-25 12:05:51 UTC
Nagnor wrote:
Why reduce it to 12 hours (-50% max) and not 3 hours or 5 minutes?

Answering that depends on what jump clones are used for; for traversing large distances very quickly or swapping sets of implants for other sets?
Consider a player jumping into a clone without implants, doing PvP or other potentially riskfull things for x hours and before logging off jumps into a clone with all +5 implants to maximize skill training. Desired game play? Don't think so

Tell me exactly what's wrong with that? The only major change would be more people with expensive implants to pvp, which is overall more isk sunk via more people pvping on a daily basis. Besides, when people with high grade implants start getting used to pvping, they become more likely to forget to switch to their pvp clone.

"The homogenization of EVE began when Gallente and Caldari started sharing a weapon system."---Vermaak Doe-- "Ohh squabbles ohh I love my dust trolls like watching an episode of Maury with less " Is he my Dad " but more of " My Neighbor took a dump on my lawn " good episode! pops more corn" ---Evernub--
Xavier Thorm
Caldari Provisions
Caldari State
#5 - 2013-04-25 13:43:45 UTC
Drake Doe wrote:
Nagnor wrote:
Why reduce it to 12 hours (-50% max) and not 3 hours or 5 minutes?

Answering that depends on what jump clones are used for; for traversing large distances very quickly or swapping sets of implants for other sets?
Consider a player jumping into a clone without implants, doing PvP or other potentially riskfull things for x hours and before logging off jumps into a clone with all +5 implants to maximize skill training. Desired game play? Don't think so

Tell me exactly what's wrong with that? The only major change would be more people with expensive implants to pvp, which is overall more isk sunk via more people pvping on a daily basis. Besides, when people with high grade implants start getting used to pvping, they become more likely to forget to switch to their pvp clone.


Agreed. And if I had the ability to swap clones more often, I would still PvP with implants, just different implants.
Mole Guy
Bob's Bait and Tackle
#6 - 2013-04-25 13:56:29 UTC
yeah, if i am mining and have my mining leadership implant in, i will pos up and wait it out since there is a stupid 24 hour timer.

allow me to switch and then switch back once the danger has passed, you will find me jump into a combat clone and bustin heads...then back to mining.
or into my nighty night +5's

there is nothing wrong with that.
Teckos Pech
Hogyoku
Goonswarm Federation
#7 - 2013-04-25 14:01:45 UTC  |  Edited by: Teckos Pech
Ahhhh Malcanis' law in action.

It's awesome...almost like rent seeking. Give me something special, I'm older and richer.

And let me fix this for you:

Quote:
allow me to switch and then switch back once the danger has passed, you will find me jump into a combat clone and bustin heads...then back to mining.
or into my nighty night +5's


Quote:
allow me to switch and then switch back once the danger has passed, you will find me jump into a combat clone and if we can get a big enough fleet we will be bustin heads, otherwise,we'll stand down and wait them out...then back to mining once we drive them off or they leave, otherwise, into my nighty night +5's. It would be awesome for an 8+ year old characters with this kind of wealth and skills trained. Suck it newer/younger/less rich players.


There. Roll

"The curious task of economics is to demonstrate to men how little they really know about what they imagine they can design."--Friedrich August von Hayek

8 Golden Rules for EVE Online
Luc Chastot
#8 - 2013-04-25 14:08:13 UTC
Just modify the timer so it is based on distance, so the more distant the JC you want to jump to is, the more time you have to wait since your last jump. Add a few other variables and you could have a system that allows you to freely swap clones in the same system, but that still has restrictions for those who want to fast travel.

I still think the most anyone should wait is 12 hours, though.

Make it idiot-proof and someone will make a better idiot.

Teckos Pech
Hogyoku
Goonswarm Federation
#9 - 2013-04-25 14:13:25 UTC
Luc Chastot wrote:
Just modify the timer so it is based on distance, so the more distant the JC you want to jump to is, the more time you have to wait since your last jump. Add a few other variables and you could have a system that allows you to freely swap clones in the same system, but that still has restrictions for those who want to fast travel.

I still think the most anyone should wait is 12 hours, though.


That would be a bit tough in null, but you could shave it down to a few hours. For example, you could make it dependent on the number of (gate) jumps. 24+ jumps = 24 hour timer. Same system, jump back and forth (or maybe a minimum of a 1 hour cool down). In null you could shave it down to 2-4 hours.

Still even this would undoubtedly benefit older/wealthier players far more than the newer/less rich players. Older players would be training faster, in general, that the newer players. Older players would have more ability to gather even more wealth than the younger players.

There is definitely a game balance issue here, and to say "This is awesome for me, therefore it is awesome in general," is not sufficient.

"The curious task of economics is to demonstrate to men how little they really know about what they imagine they can design."--Friedrich August von Hayek

8 Golden Rules for EVE Online
Drake Doe
88Th Tax Haven
#10 - 2013-04-25 14:23:19 UTC
It actually does help new players quite a bit sincw in most cases they won't have the isk to replace a lot of implant sets.

"The homogenization of EVE began when Gallente and Caldari started sharing a weapon system."---Vermaak Doe-- "Ohh squabbles ohh I love my dust trolls like watching an episode of Maury with less " Is he my Dad " but more of " My Neighbor took a dump on my lawn " good episode! pops more corn" ---Evernub--
Teckos Pech
Hogyoku
Goonswarm Federation
#11 - 2013-04-25 14:33:41 UTC  |  Edited by: Teckos Pech
Drake Doe wrote:
It actually does help new players quite a bit sincw in most cases they won't have the isk to replace a lot of implant sets.


Many new players wont have jump clones or alot of isk for good implants...or the skills. This definitely helps the older players more. Malcanis' law holds...this is actually a perfect example of it.

"The curious task of economics is to demonstrate to men how little they really know about what they imagine they can design."--Friedrich August von Hayek

8 Golden Rules for EVE Online
Akturous
The Scope
Gallente Federation
#12 - 2013-04-25 16:02:42 UTC  |  Edited by: Akturous
Nagnor wrote:
Why reduce it to 12 hours (-50% max) and not 3 hours or 5 minutes?

Answering that depends on what jump clones are used for; for traversing large distances very quickly or swapping sets of implants for other sets?
Consider a player jumping into a clone without implants, doing PvP or other potentially riskfull things for x hours and before logging off jumps into a clone with all +5 implants to maximize skill training. Desired game play? Don't think so


If transversing distances is a problem, simply have different time limits based on light year distance from origin.

So if you're jumping between stations in system, make it an hr or something, if it's from outer ring to omist, then 23hrs.

What ever it is it shouldn't be 24 hrs, what a dumb idea that is.

While we're at it, wtf is with the 5 jump clone limit? That thing needs to go, or the skill changed to +2 per lvl.

I have currently:

blank
crystals
snakes
slaves
+4's
Genos

I'd like to add Talismans and halos to that, maybe even grails, but I can't, seems fairly silly to limit my ability to have loads of at risk expensive heads.

Vote Item Heck One for CSM8
Dheeradj Nurgle
Deep Core Mining Inc.
Caldari State
#13 - 2013-04-25 16:07:51 UTC
So..... CCP should lower the Timer, because you're scared to get podded?....
Kirimeena D'Zbrkesbris
Republic Military Tax Avoiders
#14 - 2013-04-25 16:11:06 UTC  |  Edited by: Kirimeena D'Zbrkesbris
Teckos Pech wrote:

Many new players wont have jump clones or alot of isk for good implants...or the skills. This definitely helps the older players more. Malcanis' law holds...this is actually a perfect example of it.

As a rather new player i disagree. Long cooldown for jump clones cripples newer players more than vets because vet players have all skills they need and often dont care about learning time already or even not training at all to avoid clone upgrade.

Akturous wrote:
If transversing distances is a problem, simply have different time limits based on light year distance from origin.

So if you're jumping between stations in system, make it an hr or something, if it's from outer ring to omist, then 23hrs.

What ever it is it shouldn't be 24 hrs, what a dumb idea that is.

While we're at it, wtf is with the 5 jump clone limit? That thing needs to go, or the skill changed to +2 per lvl.

Pretty much this. Swapping clones on same station should have very short or no cooldown at all.

Opinions are like assholes. Everybody got one and everyone thinks everyone else's stinks.
Jureth22
EVE-RO
Goonswarm Federation
#15 - 2013-04-25 16:16:46 UTC
Beaver Retriever wrote:
Reduce the base jump clone timer to 12 hours. Introduce a new skill that then reduces it by 10% per level.

I swear to ******* god, what is the point of this thing, except to grief people? I thought you guys liked high PCUs, why are you making me not log in for 24 hours after I've used my jump clone for what I need it for?



how about a skill that allows you to undock faster?and one that reduces lag :D.we dont need no skill to reduce the timer.ccp needs to reduce it and thats it
Teckos Pech
Hogyoku
Goonswarm Federation
#16 - 2013-04-25 16:43:03 UTC  |  Edited by: Teckos Pech
Kirimeena D'Zbrkesbris wrote:

As a rather new player i disagree. Long cooldown for jump clones cripples newer players more than vets because vet players have all skills they need and often dont care about learning time already or even not training at all to avoid clone upgrade.


I don't understand your argument here. The skills are the same between jump clones. And if anything your argument suggests that newer pilots should have a shorter cool down--i.e. make the JC cool down dependent on skill points. Fewer skill points the shorter the cool down, the more you have the longer the cool down.

Now that would not invoke Malcanis' law as it would clearly benefit the newer players while not benefiting the older players.

Oh and don't overstate things. The longer cool down does not "cripple" new players. It imposes a differential in skill point accumulation and that is about it.

Look at this post.

Look at what that guy wants to do. He wants to be able to switch clones with high end implants that will help him optimize his abilities in many ways. I am pretty sure that very few players under a year will have those kinds of options.

"The curious task of economics is to demonstrate to men how little they really know about what they imagine they can design."--Friedrich August von Hayek

8 Golden Rules for EVE Online
Ines Tegator
Serious Business Inc. Ltd. LLC. etc.
#17 - 2013-04-25 20:37:06 UTC  |  Edited by: Ines Tegator
Reduce the cooldown by 1 hour per Informorph skill. Or just reduce the skill to 20 hours.

The idea being that if you JC in the middle of your play session to go do something dangerous, the timer is up at the beginning of your play session the next day so you can get back to business as usual. That's a playability change, and shouldn't have any real impact on the game in any other way.

Overhaul Dscan!
monkfish2345
School of Applied Knowledge
Caldari State
#18 - 2013-04-25 21:03:30 UTC
Between JC's, cyno chains and bridges there is already massive issues with force projection in eve.

whilst this seems like a good idea in isolation. the effect of it would make it even easier for smaller forces to own larger spaces.

so no, this should not happen.
Drake Doe
88Th Tax Haven
#19 - 2013-04-25 21:34:37 UTC
monkfish2345 wrote:
Between JC's, cyno chains and bridges there is already massive issues with force projection in eve.

whilst this seems like a good idea in isolation. the effect of it would make it even easier for smaller forces to own larger spaces.

so no, this should not happen.

So you're saying Sov should always be held by the largest groups?

"The homogenization of EVE began when Gallente and Caldari started sharing a weapon system."---Vermaak Doe-- "Ohh squabbles ohh I love my dust trolls like watching an episode of Maury with less " Is he my Dad " but more of " My Neighbor took a dump on my lawn " good episode! pops more corn" ---Evernub--
violator2k5
Crescent Nova
#20 - 2013-04-25 22:04:13 UTC
Akturous wrote:
What ever it is it shouldn't be 24 hrs, what a dumb idea that is.

While we're at it, wtf is with the 5 jump clone limit? That thing needs to go, or the skill changed to +2 per lvl.

I have currently:

blank
crystals
snakes
slaves
+4's
Genos

I'd like to add Talismans and halos to that, maybe even grails, but I can't, seems fairly silly to limit my ability to have loads of at risk expensive heads.



that idea was implemented before your character was even created in eve. There really is no need to have more then 1 jc per skill level. you have more then enough options there with the current sets in your clones already.

Dheeradj Nurgle wrote:
So..... CCP should lower the Timer, because you're scared to get podded?....



I believe that's pretty much the issue with a lot of people but I wouldn't say that's what it is for all but with todays economy I wouldn't be surprised if there flying with at least +3 sets in there head since there cheap and easy to replace even when said player is expecting to get podded since its what, not even 1 hours ratting in 0.0 to get the isk for them
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