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[Odyssey] Tech 1 Battleships - Gallente

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Alticus C Bear
University of Caille
Gallente Federation
#2141 - 2013-04-24 23:25:14 UTC
Marxzo Andoun wrote:

Why would anyone sit in station and fit up a Domi for anything other than sentry sniping given all the other ships that would fill the roles you listed above? Humor value?

Be practical if you want to be taken seriously.

Engagement flexibility.

Really think people are underestimating the drone bonus, combat drones don’t benefit from the optimal a great deal but the tracking bonus at 50% is the highest that has been given out. It will improve dps application against all ship types.

Well applied drone DPS, a few heavy neuts, hefty tank and a decent number of mids. It can do pretty much everything it did before better except perhaps shield gank DPS.

Micro Jump Drive, Microwarpdrive, scram, web, cap booster combination allows it to move between long and short range. Single DLA brings control range up near targeting range.

That said powergrid is tight compared to the Geddon even with the improvements and it’s increased reliance on Drones over even the Geddon deserves more drone bay.

CCP Rise wrote:

I also want to mention here that while the drone system overall needs looking at, we here on the balance team have some short term ideas for helping the usability of sentry drones – no timeframe on them as of yet, but its something we have in mind.

This will be key to the success of the Domi and it is a bit of an unknown with many potential fixes.

Increased control range for sentries, in fact control range could vary for all drone types and could be another useful balancing factor.

Sentries able to move at 100-200m/s so that a sentry ship can keep aligned.

Sentries auto scoop if in range on warp.

There are now more fast frigates and cruisers as a whole got a speed buff, Light and medium Drone speed and tracking needs improving a lot.

There have been many other suggestions proposed.
Giuseppe R Raimondo
Aliastra
Gallente Federation
#2142 - 2013-04-25 01:09:20 UTC
How can they say that the gallentas primary weapon system are the drones if they do stuff like that to the mega
Tom Guhl
The Scope
Gallente Federation
#2143 - 2013-04-25 04:17:59 UTC
Django Askulf wrote:
Tom Guhl wrote:

So you've abandoned your point about Gallente being exclusively droneboats? K


No, my point would be, that it shouldnt stop when it gets to Battleships. As these changes will make.

Tell me how the new megathron is a droneboat, as a battleship with less than 125 bandwidth.
Roime
Mea Culpa.
Shadow Cartel
#2144 - 2013-04-25 05:50:49 UTC
Giuseppe R Raimondo wrote:
How can they say that the gallentas primary weapon system are the drones if they do stuff like that to the mega


They don't. Nobody has ever said such a thing, and drones have never been the primary weapon of any race.

Hope this helped you.

.
Andy Landen
Deep Core Mining Inc.
Caldari State
#2145 - 2013-04-25 06:11:10 UTC
When is this supposed to happen?

"We cannot solve our problems with the same thinking we used when we created them." Albert Einstein 
ExAstra
Echoes of Silence
#2146 - 2013-04-25 11:10:34 UTC
Roime wrote:
Giuseppe R Raimondo wrote:
How can they say that the gallentas primary weapon system are the drones if they do stuff like that to the mega


They don't. Nobody has ever said such a thing, and drones have never been the primary weapon of any race.

Hope this helped you.

But in CCP's and the Megathron's defense, it has an extra 25mbit/s over the other Attack Battleships. Which is in keeping with Gallente tradition.

Save the drones!
Kagura Nikon
Native Freshfood
Minmatar Republic
#2147 - 2013-04-25 11:41:03 UTC
Giuseppe R Raimondo wrote:
How can they say that the gallentas primary weapon system are the drones if they do stuff like that to the mega



you mean the same way they made the mega faster than the tempest.. while minmatar being the speed race?

"If brute force does not solve your problem....  then you are  surely not using enough!"
Racro Arifistan
Nirmata.
#2148 - 2013-04-25 13:33:38 UTC
Shubs wrote:
for the love of god, leave the megathron alone, the changes on it are terribad


yeah the mega does well with its damge bouns and tracking. if its going to gte a RoF bonus it should be a bit stronger to compensate for its loss of damge. but overall the damage bonus is much better. to get the damge you want means that you have to go further into gunnery even with high ammounts of sp in large hybrids. it still takes 1 or 2 mag stabs to breach 1000 dps.


All in all the mega should be left alone. it would be pointless to use/have one if it dosnt have its damage bonus.

Space Chimp
Giuseppe R Raimondo
Aliastra
Gallente Federation
#2149 - 2013-04-25 13:34:52 UTC
Roime wrote:
Giuseppe R Raimondo wrote:
How can they say that the gallentas primary weapon system are the drones if they do stuff like that to the mega


They don't. Nobody has ever said such a thing, and drones have never been the primary weapon of any race.

Hope this helped you.


Let me quote the main wepsite.
Quote:
Drone Masters

The Gallente Federation have taken drones - for the other empires something of an after-thought or secondary weapon system at best - and placed them at the heart of their ship design philosophy. The vast majority of Gallente ships have drone capability, often beyond that of comparable designs in the other empires, and the Federation has developed a large array of dedicated drone carriers that use these robotic gunships as their primary weapon system. While being known for their heavy use of drones, the Gallente have not neglected raw firepower and many of their designs are optimized for the blaster family of short-range, high-damage hybrid turrets. While the Gallente share hybrid turret technology with their Caldari State enemies, due to a shared history, their preference in defense is for strongly-armored designs. The Gallente approach to electronic warfare also differs notably from others and relies on dampening enemy sensors, reducing their effective range and ability to lock onto targets.
Souverainiste
Wormhole Sterilization Crew
What Could Possibly Go Wr0ng
#2150 - 2013-04-25 14:15:51 UTC
since the Domi is a combat drone boat (dmg application), why not change the drone HP bonus for a drone damage bonus? Or remove tracking and gimme ma bonuses?

Would it be worth reconsidering it?
Kagura Nikon
Native Freshfood
Minmatar Republic
#2151 - 2013-04-25 14:34:00 UTC
Giuseppe R Raimondo wrote:
Roime wrote:
Giuseppe R Raimondo wrote:
How can they say that the gallentas primary weapon system are the drones if they do stuff like that to the mega


They don't. Nobody has ever said such a thing, and drones have never been the primary weapon of any race.

Hope this helped you.


Let me quote the main wepsite.
Quote:
Drone Masters

The Gallente Federation have taken drones - for the other empires something of an after-thought or secondary weapon system at best - and placed them at the heart of their ship design philosophy. The vast majority of Gallente ships have drone capability, often beyond that of comparable designs in the other empires, and the Federation has developed a large array of dedicated drone carriers that use these robotic gunships as their primary weapon system. While being known for their heavy use of drones, the Gallente have not neglected raw firepower and many of their designs are optimized for the blaster family of short-range, high-damage hybrid turrets. While the Gallente share hybrid turret technology with their Caldari State enemies, due to a shared history, their preference in defense is for strongly-armored designs. The Gallente approach to electronic warfare also differs notably from others and relies on dampening enemy sensors, reducing their effective range and ability to lock onto targets.



Thansk for remembering me for that website.


Want to add entry of minmatar: Minmatar ship designs typically emphasize speed and firepower, combining agile ship designs with projectile weapon armaments.

SPEED... ok.. now why minmatar are not the agile of speedy race anymore (That has been given to gallente and to caldari (yes caldari are more agile)

"If brute force does not solve your problem....  then you are  surely not using enough!"
Drake Doe
88Th Tax Haven
#2152 - 2013-04-25 14:47:26 UTC
Kagura Nikon wrote:
Giuseppe R Raimondo wrote:
Roime wrote:
Giuseppe R Raimondo wrote:
How can they say that the gallentas primary weapon system are the drones if they do stuff like that to the mega


They don't. Nobody has ever said such a thing, and drones have never been the primary weapon of any race.

Hope this helped you.


Let me quote the main wepsite.
Quote:
Drone Masters

The Gallente Federation have taken drones - for the other empires something of an after-thought or secondary weapon system at best - and placed them at the heart of their ship design philosophy. The vast majority of Gallente ships have drone capability, often beyond that of comparable designs in the other empires, and the Federation has developed a large array of dedicated drone carriers that use these robotic gunships as their primary weapon system. While being known for their heavy use of drones, the Gallente have not neglected raw firepower and many of their designs are optimized for the blaster family of short-range, high-damage hybrid turrets. While the Gallente share hybrid turret technology with their Caldari State enemies, due to a shared history, their preference in defense is for strongly-armored designs. The Gallente approach to electronic warfare also differs notably from others and relies on dampening enemy sensors, reducing their effective range and ability to lock onto targets.



Thansk for remembering me for that website.


Want to add entry of minmatar: Minmatar ship designs typically emphasize speed and firepower, combining agile ship designs with projectile weapon armaments.

SPEED... ok.. now why minmatar are not the agile of speedy race anymore (That has been given to gallente and to caldari (yes caldari are more agile)



Gallente, because they have to get CLOSER than minmatar have to to apply damage, as for caldari, would you rather use a vagabond or Cerberus as a tackler in a fleet?.

"The homogenization of EVE began when Gallente and Caldari started sharing a weapon system."---Vermaak Doe-- "Ohh squabbles ohh I love my dust trolls like watching an episode of Maury with less " Is he my Dad " but more of " My Neighbor took a dump on my lawn " good episode! pops more corn" ---Evernub--
Bouh Revetoile
In Wreck we thrust
#2153 - 2013-04-25 14:55:10 UTC
Kagura Nikon wrote:
SPEED... ok.. now why minmatar are not the agile of speedy race anymore (That has been given to gallente and to caldari (yes caldari are more agile)

Because gallente whined long and loud enough for their ship speed to reach minmatar average level. Yet, minmatar always have the fastest and agilest (not sure about this word...) hull of each line.

But yeah, gallente cries did a good job in this thread to make their BS "really effective".
Kagura Nikon
Native Freshfood
Minmatar Republic
#2154 - 2013-04-25 15:28:33 UTC
Bouh Revetoile wrote:
Kagura Nikon wrote:
SPEED... ok.. now why minmatar are not the agile of speedy race anymore (That has been given to gallente and to caldari (yes caldari are more agile)

Because gallente whined long and loud enough for their ship speed to reach minmatar average level. Yet, minmatar always have the fastest and agilest (not sure about this word...) hull of each line.

But yeah, gallente cries did a good job in this thread to make their BS "really effective".



Not true. The minmatar do not have the most agile ship in ANY line anymore. In fact they now always are behind both gallente AND caldari.

"If brute force does not solve your problem....  then you are  surely not using enough!"
Kagura Nikon
Native Freshfood
Minmatar Republic
#2155 - 2013-04-25 15:33:10 UTC
Drake Doe wrote:



Gallente, because they have to get CLOSER than minmatar have to to apply damage, as for caldari, would you rather use a vagabond or Cerberus as a tackler in a fleet?.


That is an aburdity still widespread.


Gallente with null do more damage than AC with barrage up to half of barrage falloff.. that means .. up to any level where peopel sconsidere effective range gallente deal more damage. Also gallente have droens .. much more droens for better damage projection. The "gallente needs to get closer" its a fallacy!!! Its only truth wehen you compare blaster ships with ac ships that field a faloff bonus.


And that falloff bonus is there for what? For KITING.. Minamtar need to kite much more than gallente need to get UP and close.. and kiting needs more of speed than gettign to the face. To get to the face you can use warp ins from other ships.. minmatar need SPEED.


So stop with this utter lie about gallente special needs.

"If brute force does not solve your problem....  then you are  surely not using enough!"
Jizzmaster Mckenzie
Brutor Tribe
Minmatar Republic
#2156 - 2013-04-25 15:44:06 UTC
Alticus C Bear wrote:

Engagement flexibility.


Yeah, it is so much more flexible than the current Domi. Flexible, as in "it is bad no matter how I fit it".
Just compare it with Geddon, or even Typhoon or Scorp.

Alticus C Bear wrote:
Really think people are underestimating the drone bonus, combat drones don’t benefit from the optimal a great deal but the tracking bonus at 50% is the highest that has been given out. It will improve dps application against all ship types.


Ummm... LOL?

If my drones are shooting at a slow ship, they orbit. Drones do not orbit faster than they can track.
They used to be able to do that in the past, but not anymore.
Tracking bonus is absolutely, positively, one hundred eleventy percent IRRELEVANT to non-sentry drones.

If my drones attempt to fight a fast ship, they kite. This is where the optimal range bonus MAY come into play. However, as the range on non-sentry drones is rather pitiful, this bonus will not have any meaning for non-sentries most of the time.

Alticus C Bear wrote:
Well applied drone DPS, a few heavy neuts, hefty tank and a decent number of mids. It can do pretty much everything it did before better except perhaps shield gank DPS.


You will get exactly the same non-sentry DPS (see above). Significantly less gun DPS, because of lost bonus and increased mass. Better tank, but than all BS tanks got buffed. And Geddon still has more armor.

You lost the ability to do any gank fits. If you load non-sentry drones, you are only utilizing one of the ship's bonuses (see above). Do you fit projectiles on your Abaddon now? I think not, because you want to use the ship's bonuses.

The new Domi bonus is relevant to sentries only.

To put it even more in perspective, even long-range Caldari ships can fit short-range weapons, such as HAMs or blasters, and still get benefit of the corresponding bonus (range, tracking, etc). For the new Domi, it is either sentries, or nothing. And sentries are one of the more niche weapons systems in game.

Alticus C Bear wrote:
Micro Jump Drive, Microwarpdrive, scram, web, cap booster combination allows it to move between long and short range. Single DLA brings control range up near targeting range.


No, it is either long-range with sentries, or short range with non-sentries. What do you think will happen if I drop sentries and MJD?

Alticus C Bear wrote:
That said powergrid is tight compared to the Geddon even with the improvements and it’s increased reliance on Drones over even the Geddon deserves more drone bay.


The new Geddon is OP. But that is not a topic for this thread.

Some of the drone changes/ideas that you mention might work.

Thing is, they are not scheduled for Odyssey. There is no thread for them. It is much harder to do this than swapping ship bonuses around.

Unless drone mechanics is thoroughly overhauled, the new Domi comes out as comparatively underpowered, inconsistent, and generally boring ship to fly.

And I have not seen any good explanation as to what is wrong with the old Domi, except "every race gets one attack and two combat BS". Except they really don't. Caldari have a disruption BS. Amarr have a disruption/attack hybrid (new Geddon). And Gallente are getting nerfed.
Bouh Revetoile
In Wreck we thrust
#2157 - 2013-04-25 16:01:23 UTC
Kagura Nikon wrote:
Not true. The minmatar do not have the most agile ship in ANY line anymore. In fact they now always are behind both gallente AND caldari.

No. The Typhoon will be more agile and faster than any other BS, without exception.

The Stabber have the same place : more faster than any other T1 cruiser ; not sure about agility.

Same for the Cyclone.

Their shpis are not ALL faster and more agile, but they always have the speedy option to the point this speedy option can often be considered as a lower class ship with oversized weapons and tank.
Bouh Revetoile
In Wreck we thrust
#2158 - 2013-04-25 16:18:34 UTC
Jizzmaster Mckenzie wrote:
If my drones are shooting at a slow ship, they orbit. Drones do not orbit faster than they can track.
They used to be able to do that in the past, but not anymore.
Tracking bonus is absolutely, positively, one hundred eleventy percent IRRELEVANT to non-sentry drones.

If my drones attempt to fight a fast ship, they kite. This is where the optimal range bonus MAY come into play. However, as the range on non-sentry drones is rather pitiful, this bonus will not have any meaning for non-sentries most of the time.

That is wrong. Orbit speed of drones is faster than their tracking speed (hint : when orbit speed = tracking speed, you do 40% dps). The only case where they track well is the case of heavy drones shooting battleship, because they have the same signature resolution than medium drones.
Arth Lawing
Penumbra Institute
#2159 - 2013-04-25 16:19:14 UTC
Lack of utility high for a Megathron. Cry
Where do we put our RR?
Bouh Revetoile
In Wreck we thrust
#2160 - 2013-04-25 16:21:25 UTC
Arth Lawing wrote:
Lack of utility high for a Megathron. Cry
Where do we put our RR?

On the Hyperion.