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Confused about patch notes for 1.1.3

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Hans Jagerblitzen
Ice Fire Warriors
#1 - 2011-11-01 17:57:47 UTC
"Some characters have gotten them into the broken state where they own themselves. This will cause them various issues regarding fitting and docking/undocking. The state of the characters have been fixed and additional logging has been put in to find out why these characters insist on being so independant."

Can anyone explain to me what this means exactly?

Is that own like pwn? or own like possess.....

CPM0 Chairman / CSM7 Vice Secretary
Tanya Powers
Doomheim
#2 - 2011-11-01 17:59:41 UTC
Hans Jagerblitzen wrote:
"Some characters have gotten them into the broken state where they own themselves. This will cause them various issues regarding fitting and docking/undocking. The state of the characters have been fixed and additional logging has been put in to find out why these characters insist on being so independant."


I'm loving each of these words. Twisted
Hans Jagerblitzen
Ice Fire Warriors
#3 - 2011-11-01 18:05:01 UTC
Tanya Powers wrote:
Hans Jagerblitzen wrote:
"Some characters have gotten them into the broken state where they own themselves. This will cause them various issues regarding fitting and docking/undocking. The state of the characters have been fixed and additional logging has been put in to find out why these characters insist on being so independant."


I'm loving each of these words. Twisted



But what do they mean?? I don't even understand what problem was fixed. I understand cute language is sometimes used to disguise the specific code issue, but this doesnt even tell us what was glitching. "fitting and docking/undocking" are very generic terms.... Am i missing something?

CPM0 Chairman / CSM7 Vice Secretary
Morganta
The Greater Goon
#4 - 2011-11-01 18:12:03 UTC
Hans Jagerblitzen wrote:
Am i missing something?


most likely
Hans Jagerblitzen
Ice Fire Warriors
#5 - 2011-11-01 19:01:52 UTC
Morganta wrote:


most likely


Well thanks for the help. Roll

CPM0 Chairman / CSM7 Vice Secretary
Jaroslav Unwanted
Brutor Tribe
Minmatar Republic
#6 - 2011-11-01 19:04:08 UTC
Quote from other thread named by itself

quote from barrakus

Characters have an owner id, this is not having the correct value in some rare instances, instead of showing the account id or something, the actual character's id is being stored in it's place. At least that's how I read it.
Hans Jagerblitzen
Ice Fire Warriors
#7 - 2011-11-01 19:06:47 UTC
Jaroslav Unwanted wrote:
Quote from other thread named by itself

quote from barrakus

Characters have an owner id, this is not having the correct value in some rare instances, instead of showing the account id or something, the actual character's id is being stored in it's place. At least that's how I read it.


Ah, now this, this is a bit more helpful.

CPM0 Chairman / CSM7 Vice Secretary
Nariya Kentaya
Ministry of War
Amarr Empire
#8 - 2011-11-01 19:50:43 UTC
so basically our characters were going AWOL?

one of these they are going to apply a skynet expansion to EvE, and were all going to die, ebcause as we all know, the last thing that would be god for humanity, is a game like EvE becoming sentient.
Astrid Stjerna
Sebiestor Tribe
#9 - 2011-11-01 21:32:00 UTC
Hans Jagerblitzen wrote:
Tanya Powers wrote:
Hans Jagerblitzen wrote:
"Some characters have gotten them into the broken state where they own themselves. This will cause them various issues regarding fitting and docking/undocking. The state of the characters have been fixed and additional logging has been put in to find out why these characters insist on being so independant."


I'm loving each of these words. Twisted



But what do they mean?? I don't even understand what problem was fixed. I understand cute language is sometimes used to disguise the specific code issue, but this doesnt even tell us what was glitching. "fitting and docking/undocking" are very generic terms.... Am i missing something?


Essentially, it's an unanticipated bug -- CCP simply never accounted for a situation in which the character might 'belong' to itself. The cluster logically expects that the player will only ever 'own' a ship or an item, so when it sees 'Bob owns Bob' it makes the logical assumption that 'Bob = Ship', and doesn't error-check to see if Bob is a ship.

The end-result is that the cluster tries to undock or fit a module to 'Bob' -- but Bob only looks like a ship, and doesn't have the code required to allow him to undock or fit a module.

I can't get rid of my darn signature!  Oh, wait....
CCP Tuxford
C C P
C C P Alliance
#10 - 2011-11-01 21:44:15 UTC
Astrid Stjerna wrote:


Essentially, it's an unanticipated bug -- CCP simply never accounted for a situation in which the character might 'belong' to itself. The cluster logically expects that the player will only ever 'own' a ship or an item, so when it sees 'Bob owns Bob' it makes the logical assumption that 'Bob = Ship', and doesn't error-check to see if Bob is a ship.

The end-result is that the cluster tries to undock or fit a module to 'Bob' -- but Bob only looks like a ship, and doesn't have the code required to allow him to undock or fit a module.


This is pretty close to truth. In total there were 3 characters that were not owned by the EVE System which caused some code to start doing silly things to characters. For the user it would have him fail to undock and modules be turned offline and all sort of shenanigans like that.

The fix was basically restoring the characters to the correct state and to add some additional logging to find out who is actually putting them in that state.

https://gate.eveonline.com/Profile/CCP%20Tuxford/StatusUpdates
Hans Jagerblitzen
Ice Fire Warriors
#11 - 2011-11-01 21:54:08 UTC
Thanks Tuxford!!

CPM0 Chairman / CSM7 Vice Secretary
Morganta
The Greater Goon
#12 - 2011-11-01 21:56:07 UTC
CCP Tuxford wrote:
Astrid Stjerna wrote:


Essentially, it's an unanticipated bug -- CCP simply never accounted for a situation in which the character might 'belong' to itself. The cluster logically expects that the player will only ever 'own' a ship or an item, so when it sees 'Bob owns Bob' it makes the logical assumption that 'Bob = Ship', and doesn't error-check to see if Bob is a ship.

The end-result is that the cluster tries to undock or fit a module to 'Bob' -- but Bob only looks like a ship, and doesn't have the code required to allow him to undock or fit a module.


This is pretty close to truth. In total there were 3 characters that were not owned by the EVE System which caused some code to start doing silly things to characters. For the user it would have him fail to undock and modules be turned offline and all sort of shenanigans like that.

The fix was basically restoring the characters to the correct state and to add some additional logging to find out who is actually putting them in that state.



well, that's just a little mysterious
3 characters not owned by the eve system?

are they real players?
hackers?
a new form of digital life created by the cluster?

and who is this who? who is putting them into this state
CCP Tuxford
C C P
C C P Alliance
#13 - 2011-11-01 22:01:35 UTC
Morganta wrote:

well, that's just a little mysterious
3 characters not owned by the eve system?

are they real players?
hackers?
a new form of digital life created by the cluster?

and who is this who? who is putting them into this state


  • They are real players[/*]
  • There is nothing to indicate that they are hackers. We fixed over 200 players in mid September that had gotten into the same state. Some of them had been dormant since 2004[/*]
  • Somewhere there is a codepath that puts a character's owner as something else. The who in that case is the what code.[/*]

    • P.S. The characters that we fixed in September were not all owned by themselves. Sometimes by somebody completely different. It's bizarre really (and only a little bit scary).

    https://gate.eveonline.com/Profile/CCP%20Tuxford/StatusUpdates
    Morganta
    The Greater Goon
    #14 - 2011-11-01 22:05:15 UTC
    heh, sounds like it be one of those unpredictable things I hear a game engine does from time to time

    best of luck on that one Ugh
    CCP Tuxford
    C C P
    C C P Alliance
    #15 - 2011-11-01 22:09:06 UTC
    Morganta wrote:
    heh, sounds like it be one of those unpredictable things I hear a game engine does from time to time

    best of luck on that one Ugh


    Sometimes we end up debugging stuff that happens sporadically with no common thread and no logs. At those times I walk around with a limp and pretend I'm doctor House. QA doesn't like it much.

    https://gate.eveonline.com/Profile/CCP%20Tuxford/StatusUpdates
    Zi'Boo
    Zi'Corp
    #16 - 2011-11-01 22:10:06 UTC
    Looks like the first steps of the cluster developing self awarness.

    Skynet is GO!

    Start looking for a nuclear shelter....
    Nimrod Nemesis
    Doomheim
    #17 - 2011-11-01 22:11:11 UTC
    CCP Tuxford wrote:

    Sometimes we end up debugging stuff that happens sporadically with no common thread and no logs. At those times I walk around with a limp and pretend I'm doctor House. QA doesn't like it much.


    I would pay to see this.
    gfldex
    #18 - 2011-11-01 22:11:42 UTC
    CCP Tuxford wrote:
    It's bizarre really (and only a little bit scary).


    Don't worry mate, it only means that TQ is about to become self-aware.

    If you take all the sand out of the box, only the cat poo will remain.
    gfldex
    #19 - 2011-11-01 22:12:12 UTC
    Zi'Boo wrote:
    Looks like the first steps of the cluster developing self awarness.

    Skynet is GO!

    Start looking for a nuclear shelter....


    You win.

    If you take all the sand out of the box, only the cat poo will remain.
    Morganta
    The Greater Goon
    #20 - 2011-11-01 22:13:42 UTC
    Nimrod Nemesis wrote:
    CCP Tuxford wrote:

    Sometimes we end up debugging stuff that happens sporadically with no common thread and no logs. At those times I walk around with a limp and pretend I'm doctor House. QA doesn't like it much.


    I would pay to see this.


    not empty boating
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