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Save the Minmatars

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Donedy
Lulzsec Space
#61 - 2013-04-24 16:27:41 UTC  |  Edited by: Donedy
Mina Sebiestar wrote:
oh i see now te is nerfed because poor armor setups will not sacrifice their mids for it..seems legit

what? Honestly i dont get your point here.
Mina Sebiestar
Minmatar Inner Space Conglomerate
#62 - 2013-04-24 16:38:16 UTC
TC is not worth fitting over rest of mid modules,some ppl are stating that as reason for te nerf as well i say it is bs also i think that angel ships was benefiting too much from te not regular mini ships..couple that with speed and mass changes and mini could came up rly bad..

Also i fail at multitask i barely wrote that.

You choke behind a smile a fake behind the fear

Because >>I is too hard
Ivoto
A Blessed Bean
Pandemic Horde
#63 - 2013-04-24 16:42:20 UTC
Secret whine thread not so secret.

Minmatar have been regarded as the best PvP race in the game. None of the OP mentioned things will really harm Matar's top position

Stop being so doom n gloom
Diesel47
Deep Core Mining Inc.
Caldari State
#64 - 2013-04-24 17:20:00 UTC
Ivoto wrote:
Secret whine thread not so secret.

Minmatar have been regarded as the best PvP race in the game. None of the OP mentioned things will really harm Matar's top position

Stop being so doom n gloom



Stop being so bad along with the rest of the bads in this thread.

When you nerf something and at the same time grossly buff its competition... You essentially are making that thing worthless.

Balance is not to "give turns" to races to be good.

Even if CCP does make X race the best, I'll probably fly that race because I can fly all sub-caps in the game. But I won't sit here and pretend that it isn't a ****** game design decision.
Tippia
Sunshine and Lollipops
#65 - 2013-04-24 17:28:37 UTC
Diesel47 wrote:
When you nerf something and at the same time grossly buff its competition... You essentially are making that thing worthless.
Not really, no.
If you nerf something and at the same time grossly buff its competition, the end relative position will depend on the starting relative position and the size of the nerfs/buffs. Whether it ends up worthless or not does not depend on just the nerfs and buffs.

In this case, they're nerfing some obviously overpowered modules, nerfing a minmatar ship or two, buffing a few others, and then bringing everything else up to the same spec — nothing is rendered worthless in the process, since everything converges at some middle point.

Quote:
Balance is not to "give turns" to races to be good.
Good thing that they're not really doing that, then, but rather are trying to put everyone on roughly the same level.
Roime
Mea Culpa.
Shadow Cartel
#66 - 2013-04-24 17:30:29 UTC
OMG CCP

They nerfed Caldari, Amarr, Gallente and Minmatar, all ships are now useless and OBSOLTE111oneoneone

also, free SP



.
Donedy
Lulzsec Space
#67 - 2013-04-24 17:33:12 UTC  |  Edited by: Donedy
Tippia wrote:
Diesel47 wrote:
When you nerf something and at the same time grossly buff its competition... You essentially are making that thing worthless.
Not really, no.
If you nerf something and at the same time grossly buff its competition, the end relative position will depend on the starting relative position and the size of the nerfs/buffs. Whether it ends up worthless or not does not depend on just the nerfs and buffs.

In this case, they're nerfing some obviously overpowered modules, nerfing a minmatar ship or two, buffing a few others, and then bringing everything else up to the same spec — nothing is rendered worthless in the process, since everything converges at some middle point.

Quote:
Balance is not to "give turns" to races to be good.
Good thing that they're not really doing that, then, but rather are trying to put everyone on roughly the same level.

Its kinda awesome Tippia. You have nearly the same reasonement than me and the conlusions we have are the total opposite. I dont get it.
So what is it? Your armor setups never worked as intended?
Rebecha Pucontis
Doomheim
#68 - 2013-04-24 17:36:14 UTC
The funny thing is CCP hasn't actually finalised any changes yet and CCP Rise has said he is considering giving the Tempest further improvements once people have actually used the ships on the Test server.
Donedy
Lulzsec Space
#69 - 2013-04-24 17:38:54 UTC  |  Edited by: Donedy
Rebecha Pucontis wrote:
The funny thing is CCP hasn't actually finalised any changes yet and CCP Rise has said he is considering giving the Tempest further improvements once people have actually used the ships on the Test server.

Yeah i know i precised it in my first post. On another hand CCP Fozzie doesnt think his TE and SFI nerf should be rethought apparently.

And i till dont get at all the navy harbi with one more med than the navy cane.
Arronicus
State War Academy
Caldari State
#70 - 2013-04-24 17:39:30 UTC

    [1] Other races are on top.
    [2] CCP Buffs minmatar to be OP
    [3] Speed nerf happens
    [4] Other races are on top, briefly
    [5] Minmatar back on top as OP
    [6] CCP revitalizes terrible weapon systems
    [7] CCP fixes broken unused ships
    [8] CCP starts to bring minmatar back in line with the other races
    [9] 'Minmatar isn't OP, now what do I fly, CCP EVE IS BROKEN' threads ensue.


/thread
ElQuirko
University of Caille
Gallente Federation
#71 - 2013-04-24 17:51:08 UTC
Minmatar are already too powerful. And come on, can nobody see the power in the tempest? It's already powerful, but now it's getting dedicated armour tanking and torpedoes - that's capless tank and capless firepower!

Dodixie > Hek
Mina Sebiestar
Minmatar Inner Space Conglomerate
#72 - 2013-04-24 18:08:40 UTC  |  Edited by: Mina Sebiestar
i hope you ment typhoon

You choke behind a smile a fake behind the fear

Because >>I is too hard
Diesel47
Deep Core Mining Inc.
Caldari State
#73 - 2013-04-24 18:27:01 UTC
ElQuirko wrote:
Minmatar are already too powerful. And come on, can nobody see the power in the tempest? It's already powerful, but now it's getting dedicated armour tanking and torpedoes - that's capless tank and capless firepower!


If you don't know the difference between a tempest and a typhoon how do you expect us to take you seriously?

I feel like most of the people in here can only fly one of the races being disgustingly buffed and their ship-boners are driving them to support the game being rigged in their favor.
Tippia
Sunshine and Lollipops
#74 - 2013-04-24 18:31:04 UTC
Diesel47 wrote:
I feel like most of the people in here can only fly one of the races being disgustingly buffed and their ship-boners are driving them to support the game being rigged in their favor.
I feel like most of the people in here do what most people do and fly just about everything, and their ship-boners are driving them to support a game change that means more of their available ships are actually viable choices.
Diesel47
Deep Core Mining Inc.
Caldari State
#75 - 2013-04-24 18:39:50 UTC
Tippia wrote:
Diesel47 wrote:
I feel like most of the people in here can only fly one of the races being disgustingly buffed and their ship-boners are driving them to support the game being rigged in their favor.
I feel like most of the people in here do what most people do and fly just about everything, and their ship-boners are driving them to support a game change that means more of their available ships are actually viable choices.


No, go look at the proposed changes and its obvious they are just nerfing minmatar to the ground.
Skurja Volpar
Rattini Tribe
Minmatar Fleet Alliance
#76 - 2013-04-24 19:23:24 UTC  |  Edited by: Skurja Volpar
Some of the nerfs feel a bit heavy handed and arbitrary to me, and I think that maybe CCP should have buffed the underpowered ships first and then looked at how the cane/SFI/etc stacked up compared to them before going for the nerf.

But overall the gaps in ship performance between races are as narrow now as they have been since my time in eve, and very possibly since the game began. Asking about minmatar in '08 I remember the standard words of advice concerning the ships was stuff like "Train RIfter, skip everything else", "Projectiles are a broken weapon system", "Useless since the nano nerf", "Tempest is the worst BS in game", and whether they were right or wrong it still seemed the standard opinion.

It will take much more than a small nerf to TEs and a bit of extra mass on the SFI for minmatar to become bottom of the pile again.

I'm going to miss the typhoon, but the new one looks decent, and I'll be able to get a similar experience to the old one in a geddon if I really want it back. The rifter is a sad and unnecessary casualty and quite frankly deserved better. The fleet cane might feel underwhelming compared to the other navy BCs.

But it'll be fine, get on with it.
Alexa Coates
Center for Advanced Studies
Gallente Federation
#77 - 2013-04-24 19:44:20 UTC
All I can say is:

About ******* time.

That's a Templar, an Amarr fighter used by carriers.
Tippia
Sunshine and Lollipops
#78 - 2013-04-24 19:51:39 UTC
Diesel47 wrote:
No, go look at the proposed changes and its obvious they are just nerfing minmatar to the ground.
Not really, no. The obvious suspects are getting adjusted downwards, a bunch is getting adjusted upwards, and some are getting adjusted sideways.

The ground is still a long way down.

…or do you have any particular, massive, all-encompassing nerfs in mind that you feel are being applied solely to the Minmatar?
ISD Suvetar
ISD Community Communications Liaisons
ISD Alliance
#79 - 2013-04-24 21:07:50 UTC
Moved to the correct forum.

[b]ISD Suvetar Captain/Commando Community Communication Liaisons (CCLs) Interstellar Services Department[/b]
Donedy
Lulzsec Space
#80 - 2013-04-24 22:27:47 UTC
ISD Suvetar wrote:
Moved to the correct forum.

Damn you broke my whine party mate.