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Save the Minmatars

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Sulistus
Angelus Tempestas
#21 - 2013-04-24 13:21:58 UTC
Zangorus wrote:
Donedy wrote:
Liam Inkuras wrote:
I think we need to get back what made each races' ships unique, instead of having a generic role for each ships that extends across all races.

The way it was:
• Minmatar: fast and agile, GTFO ability, lots of kiting and utility. Usually hardest race to train for due to the vast amount of skills needed to fly their ships effectively.
• Caldari: Long range capabilities and slow and chunky. Thick tanks.
• Gallente: I'm going to sit on your face while I melt it. Drones sting like bees. Ships are slow when plated, but agile hen gank fit.
• Amarr: Golden bricks of lasers and tank. Very straightforward with little variation.

How it is becoming: let's give all races a brawler ship, kiter ship, Tanky ship, and a special EWAR ship (ewar was there before). I just feel that the races are becoming too generalized and bland, without enough distinction between them.


This

Yes but isnt that balanced?




CCP think its not, speed is too much of an advantage for one race to have.

As I said above, a huge percentage of small scale pvp in null is done in Minni ships. There is a very good reason for that, they are BETTER than the other races ships at small gang. Hence the slight nerfs.

I really dont see how anyone can look at that objectively and have an issue with it.
Donedy
Lulzsec Space
#22 - 2013-04-24 13:25:40 UTC  |  Edited by: Donedy
May be im a bit extreme, but globally the sum of the buff/nerfs remains clearly in disfavor for minies.

If you buff all the the other races to same/better speed & agility than minies (what is happening for the rebalanced ships) and dont touch the minnie hulls, there will be a clear disadvanatage for minies anyway.
Sulistus
Angelus Tempestas
#23 - 2013-04-24 13:28:51 UTC
Donedy wrote:
May be im a bit extreme, but globally the sum of the buff/nerfs remains clearly in disfavor for minies.



CCP are not daft. They know how popular Mini ships are, there is no way they will nerf them into the ground.

If the buff to other races prove to be too much then they will fix it.

as Odd Ball once said "Have a little faith baby, have a little faith"
Donedy
Lulzsec Space
#24 - 2013-04-24 13:30:22 UTC
Well hybrids were **** during years, and CCP let them be **** during years, i dont want that for a ship line.
Ruskarn Andedare
Lion Investments
#25 - 2013-04-24 13:35:35 UTC
Donedy wrote:
May be im a bit extreme, but globally the sum of the buff/nerfs remains clearly in disfavor for minies.


Whereas the Gallente pilots, especially those that have heavily trained drones, reckon Gallente is being nerfed as they feel they now have to fly Amarr if they want an efficient drone boat as the Gallente ships are being mainly changed to have bonusses that might be useful with some future expansion but are useless at present.

The Amarr pilots are freaking as they now have to fly drones if they want to use a lot of their ships.


The world is changing and we all have to adapt.


I do agree to some extent about the blandness factor but don't see it being as bad as it is being painted (so far, time will tell).
Ruskarn Andedare
Lion Investments
#26 - 2013-04-24 13:37:27 UTC  |  Edited by: Ruskarn Andedare
Donedy wrote:
Well hybrids were **** during years, and CCP let them be **** during years, i dont want that for a ship line.


Don't worry, hybrids are still pretty **** except the small ones.

e.g. medium artillery is often used on Domis as it's better than heavy rails
Donedy
Lulzsec Space
#27 - 2013-04-24 13:45:20 UTC  |  Edited by: Donedy
Ruskarn Andedare wrote:
Donedy wrote:
Well hybrids were **** during years, and CCP let them be **** during years, i dont want that for a ship line.


Don't worry, hybrids are still pretty **** except the small ones.

e.g. medium artillery is often used on Domis as it's better than heavy rails

Hybrids are not perfect, but its till WAY better than what it was before.
And about the gallente recon, i dont see AT ALL what you're talking about.
Domi is becoming a true drone boat, whats wrong with that?
Ripblade Falconpunch
Deep Core Mining Inc.
Caldari State
#28 - 2013-04-24 13:48:00 UTC
Donedy wrote:
Well hybrids were **** during years, and CCP let them be **** during years, i dont want that for a ship line.


Clearly the game is about what "you" want, right?
Donedy
Lulzsec Space
#29 - 2013-04-24 14:02:22 UTC  |  Edited by: Donedy
You want me to reformulate it princess? Or did you really not understand?
Ripblade Falconpunch
Deep Core Mining Inc.
Caldari State
#30 - 2013-04-24 14:07:57 UTC
Donedy wrote:
You want me to reformulate it princess? Or did you really not understand?


I'd like you to reformulate it please.

Because all I'm hearing is a giant man-baby whining about Winmatar ships finally getting put in line
with the rest of them.

You might have to fly a ship that's on the same level as the other races, how shocking!
Donedy
Lulzsec Space
#31 - 2013-04-24 14:12:05 UTC  |  Edited by: Donedy
So you did not understand and you want me to reformulate it, may be my english is too bad, or may be... meh whatever.

Quote:
Well hybrids were **** during years, and CCP let them be **** during years, it would be crap to have a whole ship line unbalanced for years.


Also, i can fly all the ships, so i will fly the new "OP" ships anyway if the game is unbalanced.
But, i dont know why, i prefer having diversity in a game, i find that way more funny, having options, liberty, this kind of things, you know?
Acac Sunflyier
The Ascended Academy
#32 - 2013-04-24 14:29:25 UTC
I feel the OP's pain, but then again the alpha fleets consist of what exactly?
Mina Sebiestar
Minmatar Inner Space Conglomerate
#33 - 2013-04-24 14:35:42 UTC  |  Edited by: Mina Sebiestar
Donedy wrote:
So you did not understand and you want me to reformulate it, may be my english is too bad, or may be... meh whatever.

Quote:
Well hybrids were **** during years, and CCP let them be **** during years, it would be crap to have a whole ship line unbalanced for years.


Also, i can fly all the ships, so i will fly the new "OP" ships anyway if the game is unbalanced.
But, i dont know why, i prefer having diversity in a game, i find that way more funny, having options, liberty, this kind of things, you know?


Nah man putting ships with weakest tank and gank in line with others is exactly what this game needs..and look it from bright side if they become so bad you can still shoot missiles and be boss.

We amarr and caldary are missile shooters now say yaay for diversity ...as in same with different hulls...oh wait.

You choke behind a smile a fake behind the fear

Because >>I is too hard
Rebecha Pucontis
Doomheim
#34 - 2013-04-24 14:35:56 UTC
Donedy wrote:
Hello mates,
With odyssey there is a lot of stuff coming, and among it there is a lot of rebalance.
Im posting here because im concerned about what they are doing with sub capital minmatar ships.



Tracking Enhancers severely needed to be nerfed as right now they give the same benefit to tracking "and" falloff as a tracking computer does which is an active capacitor using mod using double the cpu and can only provide the same levels of tracking or falloff by loading a script and thus only providing one of the attributes at a time. Anyone who flies minmatar should know this is kind of ridiculous situation.

I like what they are doing as with the addition of the reactive hardener, and now the nerf of tracking enhancers, armour setups will become much more viable as currently shield is far too powerful in terms of its flexibilty and ease of fitting in comparison to armour ships which are a bit*ch to fit well.

Donedy wrote:

  • What about minmatars? Typhoon and Mael looks fine, but the Tempest is getting small tweaks, mainly nerfed HP and keeping his poor slot layout compared to the other races changes.
  • About the new faction BCs, the navy cane is just the old T1 while other races are getting nearly totally new ships (with the navy harbi having more meds than the navy cane, wtf?)
  • While all the faction cruisers are getting buffed the only one getting nerfed is the Stabber Fleet Issue
    • [/list]


    I agree with you I would like to see minmatar racial identity preserved. The Tempest is actually getting quite a buff to its HP and the expense of 20 extra signature so I don't know where you get the idea its getting nerfed. Also, it has a similar layout to the old hurricane, one of the most powerful and used ships in the game, so definitley not useless at all.

    I would like to see Minmatar ships maintain the speed advantage and sig advantage at the loss of the EHP though. Also the ability to fit shield armour auto or artillery with lots of extra utility slots is one of the defining features of minmatar ships and so I want that to remain.

    I am concerned with what they are doing to the Typhoon though at the moment, I think it needs a rethink as it is too similar to the Raven. Apart from that though the minmatar line up looks good though. And I am almost exclusively a minmatar pilot.
    Ruskarn Andedare
    Lion Investments
    #35 - 2013-04-24 14:39:27 UTC
    Donedy wrote:
    Ruskarn Andedare wrote:
    Donedy wrote:
    Well hybrids were **** during years, and CCP let them be **** during years, i dont want that for a ship line.


    Don't worry, hybrids are still pretty **** except the small ones.

    e.g. medium artillery is often used on Domis as it's better than heavy rails

    Hybrids are not perfect, but its till WAY better than what it was before.
    And about the gallente recon, i dont see AT ALL what you're talking about.
    Domi is becoming a true drone boat, whats wrong with that?


    Personally I'm 'interested' in what they're doing to the Domi but not totally impressed so far as it seems to be focussing a little too much on sentries.

    My point was that even as it is now with the bonus to heavy hybrid damage you see few Domis with heavy hybrids on board - after the change there'll be even fewer of them following the 'official' Gallente party line of drones and hybrids as the racial flavour is being washed away.
    Diesel47
    Deep Core Mining Inc.
    Caldari State
    #36 - 2013-04-24 14:44:48 UTC
    Zangorus wrote:
    Donedy wrote:
    Liam Inkuras wrote:
    I think we need to get back what made each races' ships unique, instead of having a generic role for each ships that extends across all races.

    The way it was:
    • Minmatar: fast and agile, GTFO ability, lots of kiting and utility. Usually hardest race to train for due to the vast amount of skills needed to fly their ships effectively.
    • Caldari: Long range capabilities and slow and chunky. Thick tanks.
    • Gallente: I'm going to sit on your face while I melt it. Drones sting like bees. Ships are slow when plated, but agile hen gank fit.
    • Amarr: Golden bricks of lasers and tank. Very straightforward with little variation.

    How it is becoming: let's give all races a brawler ship, kiter ship, Tanky ship, and a special EWAR ship (ewar was there before). I just feel that the races are becoming too generalized and bland, without enough distinction between them.


    This

    Yes but isnt that balanced?


    That is how a bunch of amateurs would go about balancing a game.

    I expect more from CCP with their 10 years of experience with EvE.
    Donedy
    Lulzsec Space
    #37 - 2013-04-24 14:56:32 UTC  |  Edited by: Donedy
    Rebecha Pucontis wrote:
    Tracking Enhancers severely needed to be nerfed as right now they give the same benefit to tracking "and" falloff as a tracking computer does which is an active capacitor using mod using double the cpu and can only provide the same levels of tracking or falloff by loading a script and thus only providing one of the attributes at a time. Anyone who flies minmatar should know this is kind of ridiculous situation.

    I like what they are doing as with the addition of the reactive hardener, and now the nerf of tracking enhancers, armour setups will become much more viable as currently shield is far too powerful in terms of its flexibilty and ease of fitting in comparison to armour ships which are a bit*ch to fit well.


    Im mainly flying armor ships, my corp has only armor doctrines. And i dont see in what armor is so weak. Actually if i was a preck i would be happy with this changes.

    I dont think at all shield fleets are ultimately OP atm. So yeah, TE nerf is not needed in my eyes, and from far.

    Rebecha Pucontis wrote:

    I agree with you I would like to see minmatar racial identity preserved. The Tempest is actually getting quite a buff to its HP and the expense of 20 extra signature so I don't know where you get the idea its getting nerfed. Also, it has a similar layout to the old hurricane, one of the most powerful and used ships in the game, so definitley not useless at all.

    I would like to see Minmatar ships maintain the speed advantage and sig advantage at the loss of the EHP though. Also the ability to fit shield armour auto or artillery with lots of extra utility slots is one of the defining features of minmatar ships and so I want that to remain.

    I am concerned with what they are doing to the Typhoon though at the moment, I think it needs a rethink as it is too similar to the Raven. Apart from that though the minmatar line up looks good though. And I am almost exclusively a minmatar pilot.


    The Tempest is getting a HP nerf not a HP buff, and about his "20" sig radius thingie, thats not relevant for a battleship even less relevant as a counterpart...
    Capt Retard
    Federal Navy Academy
    Gallente Federation
    #38 - 2013-04-24 15:05:12 UTC
    Liam Inkuras wrote:
    I think we need to get back what made each races' ships unique, instead of having a generic role for each ships that extends across all races.

    The way it was:
    • Minmatar: fast and agile, GTFO ability, lots of kiting and utility. Usually hardest race to train for due to the vast amount of skills needed to fly their ships effectively.
    • Caldari: Long range capabilities and slow and chunky. Thick tanks.
    • Gallente: I'm going to sit on your face while I melt it. Drones sting like bees. Ships are slow when plated, but agile hen gank fit.
    • Amarr: Golden bricks of lasers and tank. Very straightforward with little variation.

    How it is becoming: let's give all races a brawler ship, kiter ship, Tanky ship, and a special EWAR ship (ewar was there before). I just feel that the races are becoming too generalized and bland, without enough distinction between them.



    Wheres the Gallente or Minmater EWAR ship?
    Caviar Liberta
    The Scope
    Gallente Federation
    #39 - 2013-04-24 15:05:18 UTC
    Ruskarn Andedare wrote:
    Donedy wrote:
    Well hybrids were **** during years, and CCP let them be **** during years, i dont want that for a ship line.


    Don't worry, hybrids are still pretty **** except the small ones.

    e.g. medium artillery is often used on Domis as it's better than heavy rails


    My tech 2 heavy neutrons on my Naga would disagree with that assestment.
    Tippia
    Sunshine and Lollipops
    #40 - 2013-04-24 15:06:05 UTC
    Donedy wrote:
    The Tempest is getting a HP nerf not a HP buff, and about his "20" sig radius thingie, thats not relevant for a battleship even less relevant as a counterpart...

    The problem is that the numbers don't match the description of them. They say the HP is getting lowered, and the sig is kept low, but then you look at the stats:

    Defense (shields / armor / hull) : 7000 (+46) / 7300 (+1089) / 6800 (+259)
    Signature radius: 360 (+20)

    …unless they mean to say that the HP increase is lower than first intended, and that the sig penalty is also lower than the first iteration.